Ask a trans person!

[Linus]

Welp. Even though my dad won't speak to me, my aunt (my dad's sister) still does. And she looked up my grandfather's ancestry project, finding my step-mom's maiden name (spelling may not be totally accurate but.. ). It's a start!

[CamBAMF]

Hey Everybody!
I haven't been on in a while but I had a some what funny experience. When I started T a year ago I was working on my college campus. I didn't work over the winter, so this summer is the first time since beginning T that I had to look for a job. I got a part time job for the summer with the help of an ex-girlfriend. I haven't had a name change yet (I've just been strapped for cash) and all my documents say female. So right off the bat I told my managers what my deal was, all were okay if not a little curious, however policy for this particular establishment says I have to wear a name tag wit my birth name. Not a big deal, I work in the back and besides I'm not ashamed. So the other day I stop in to fill out a request off form and an employee I never met walks up and introduces herself. I tell her my birth name (figuering that's how people in here know me). Today she happened to be working the same shift as me and she explained that she was totally flabergasted by my name and had called up an ex-girlfriend of hers (who apparently is also transitioning) and explained that she honestly had no idea. I really wasn't too worried about finding a job, but I am totally surprised all the time by the overwhelming acceptance. It's been a pretty cool experience!

[The Oopster]

Originally Posted by CamBAMF

Hey Everybody!
I haven't been on in a while but I had a some what funny experience. When I started T a year ago I was working on my college campus. I didn't work over the winter, so this summer is the first time since beginning T that I had to look for a job. I got a part time job for the summer with the help of an ex-girlfriend. I haven't had a name change yet (I've just been strapped for cash) and all my documents say female. So right off the bat I told my managers what my deal was, all were okay if not a little curious, however policy for this particular establishment says I have to wear a name tag wit my birth name. Not a big deal, I work in the back and besides I'm not ashamed. So the other day I stop in to fill out a request off form and an employee I never met walks up and introduces herself. I tell her my birth name (figuering that's how people in here know me). Today she happened to be working the same shift as me and she explained that she was totally flabergasted by my name and had called up an ex-girlfriend of hers (who apparently is also transitioning) and explained that she honestly had no idea. I really wasn't too worried about finding a job, but I am totally surprised all the time by the overwhelming acceptance. It's been a pretty cool experience!

I have to present my drivers liscence all the time which still has the original gender marker and my birth name. Nobody every seems to even notice the F marker .. they just think my parents were cruel. I think my birth name is unique enough that they think it's Like some foreign name that can go both ways. I've even had them comment "oh you poor thing" to be given "that" name. Unless it's an over the phone thing .. they still call me sir. On the phone they are extra confused but don't have the visual to go by ... it's funny cause it's like they over emphasize ms. then.

[Gentle Tiger]

Hello Everyone. I've had some experiences since transitioning that I quite frankly while I thought I was prepared I clearly was not prepared for them. I kind of wish I had had an older transman of color (not necessarily in age) to tell me a few things in advance - not that I would have changed my mind but to prepare me, talk through them. I don't mean about trivial things like hair growing in odd places, or receding hairlines. I'm talking heavy things like what it really means to be a man in the world. How you will be perceived and treated; respected and disrespected, etc. after you transition.

Anybody else have experiences after transitioning that kind of made you have to regroup so to speak?

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Hello Everyone. I've had some experiences since transitioning that I quite frankly while I thought I was prepared I clearly was not prepared for them. I kind of wish I had had an older transman of color (not necessarily in age) to tell me a few things in advance - not that I would have changed my mind but to prepare me, talk through them. I don't mean about trivial things like hair growing in odd places, or receding hairlines. I'm talking heavy things like what it really means to be a man in the world. How you will be perceived and treated; respected and disrespected, etc. after you transition.

Anybody else have experiences after transitioning that kind of made you have to regroup so to speak?

Gentle Tiger, First, I want you to know, you are not alone. I recently attended a Queer 12 Step Conference and was one of the two panel members that spoke about Transitioning. Two POC Transmen came up afterwards to speak to me about the very same sort of things you posted. I too am a POC and it has been my experience that a Latino male is sometimes treated much differently than a female Latina. I realized this as a young child just watching the life experiences of my father, stepfather and brothers.

I don't believe I have been living in the world as a Transman as long as you have but I do have a lifetime of being perceived as a Latino man off and on. If you want to talk more of this, pm me. Thank you for bringing this reality to the attention of your fellow Trans brothers.

[Gentle Tiger]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Gentle Tiger, First, I want you to know, you are not alone. I recently attended a Queer 12 Step Conference and was one of the two panel members that spoke about Transitioning. Two POC Transmen came up afterwards to speak to me about the very same sort of things you posted. I too am a POC and it has been my experience that a Latino male is sometimes treated much differently than a female Latina. I realized this as a young child just watching the life experiences of my father, stepfather and brothers.

I don't believe I have been living in the world as a Transman as long as you have but I do have a lifetime of being perceived as a Latino man off and on. If you want to talk more of this, pm me. Thank you for bringing this reality to the attention of your fellow Trans brothers.

Hey Greyson,

Yes indeed it is different. I had already experienced the being watched when entering an expensive as a black female. And I knew what in a factual and feeling for and with those who told their stories. But I now there is another layer because I now I am actually living the experience myself in my skin.

I definitely know I'm not alone as I hear this from time to time talking with other guys. My latest encounter caused me to think about the communities I interact with and share there. So others would know and not be surprised if they had similar experiences.

Hold your heads up Brothers.
Malcolm

[The Oopster]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Hello Everyone. I've had some experiences since transitioning that I quite frankly while I thought I was prepared I clearly was not prepared for them. I kind of wish I had had an older transman of color (not necessarily in age) to tell me a few things in advance - not that I would have changed my mind but to prepare me, talk through them. I don't mean about trivial things like hair growing in odd places, or receding hairlines. I'm talking heavy things like what it really means to be a man in the world. How you will be perceived and treated; respected and disrespected, etc. after you transition.

Anybody else have experiences after transitioning that kind of made you have to regroup so to speak?

Hey Malcolm great to see you! Sorry that you have had some uncomfortable experiences as of late.

I think it is one thing to know that certain things exist and another to experience them. Sometimes I think all the knowledge in the world will prepare me but once I experience something for the first time I realize that nothing could prepare me.

I can't begin to know what it is like to be a male poc, however I have had experiences since my transition that throw me for a loop, are uncomfortable, and sometimes still are.

When i was perceived as female at night I was always cautious and if there was a man around extremely intentive of the fact and aware of my surroundings. It's still uncomfortable to now be the one perceived as a possible threat/danger. It's weird having to be concious of how my behavior in certain instances is now perceived totally different now that I'm seen as male instead of female.

Other examples include interacting with kids. I'm a huge flirt with kids and when I was perceived as female it never alerted anybodys "red" flags. Now that i'm seen as male people are more cautious.

I'm a messenger and often sit in my car waiting for the next job to come. Sometimes it's in residential areas and I'm still waiting for someone to call the cops thinking i'm a potential perpertrator.

A lot of these behaviors are understandable, in fact i've been the one of caution, but it's totally different to now be perceived as the one that could be a potential threat.

[Linus]

I just checked online and apparently my Birth Certificate has finally been approved and is on its way!! FINALLY! Now I can go for the SIN card and Passport. Hopefully they will be quicker!

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Linus

I just checked online and apparently my Birth Certificate has finally been approved and is on its way!! FINALLY! Now I can go for the SIN card and Passport. Hopefully they will be quicker!

That is so awesome! Congrats on that and good luck with the rest!!

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

I don't know that I can answer really. I had some pretty deep roots in the community well before I decided to transition, so I just figure no one pays me any mind because of that.

If there is something more specific you want to ask (me), then please know I will give you an honest, thoughtful reply. I certainly want to help in any way I can.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by June

Thank you, Thinker. So, here, let me put you on the hotseat for a moment. Do you think you kind of got "a pass" here because you were so well known by people, and you were just kind of "Our Thinker" and didn't start out being "other" or "outsider" or even "unknown"?

I wonder how it looks to those who have transitioned prior to coming to the site or even afterwards, but aren't as well known or known at all?

Yeah, I think I probably did.

I remember back a gazillion years ago at the site where I first joined this community. A post-transition FTM joined up and starting chiming in here and there, and I remember thinking... "Who the eff is this guy? He's not a transman. He's here to be an ass and hit on femmes."

Heh heh... Needless to say, I was pretty insecure and relatively immature in a lot of ways back then. Now, I wasn't overtly cruel to this guy; but I did not go out of my way to make him feel welcome either. Keep in mind, too, that he stated directly that he was straight and never identified as butch. At that time in my life, that was all I needed to "not like him". Again...my insecurities and immaturity at play.

I realize that's just me and that I can't project that kind of behavior on to any other member here. But... I suspect there might be one or two (or 80) members who would be as suspicious now as I was back then.....perhaps even offering up a less than warm reception to the newcomer.

I'm just guessing, but I think what probably drives it is wondering why a straight guy would join up at a queer site. Folks see that and get suspicious.......and protective. Think about it... We've already seen the question, "Why would a man want to be at a queer site?" If that's the overarching question when dealing with this man...the lens through which you view him.....then you (general you) aren't going to be completely open and welcoming.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

I don't have a local BF community, however when I lived in Park County I was accepted and warmly welcomed by a community of women, and that has not changed, since I became Liam. I did not feel particularly welcomed when I came here, and I left for a few months after I signed up.

I don't know.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

It's difficult to be accepted. I've experienced this off site. As far as on line, I think its difficult because it seems you can't say a without being criticized or called on it some how. That doesn't have anything to do with gender, it's just difficult here.

[Gentle Tiger]

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

I will give this some thought and then respond.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by June

Yes, Jet -- You and I have talked about this before that you are often surprised at what folks get upset about. Overall, do you feel welcomed as a man here, even if you and I have to cross swords sometimes?

No, not really. I can't expect to be validated based on what people think of me.
Masculinity comes from me—from the inside. Am I welcomed as a man by others? No, I don't think so. Except for fellow FTMs.
They are the ones who get it. Thanks for asking.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

Thanks for asking this June, it shows that you do care and that is appreciated.

I think that on the dash site I didn't feel as wanted and affirmed as a transguy, but I didn't really talk about it as much or come out as trans on that site. However, I do feel more welcome and included here on BFP because Dusa and Jack have gone out of their way to let everyone know that we transguys are welcome. That makes a big difference to me. I know that there are members here who have issues with us being here, and that isn't something that surprises me, but the leadership here, including the mods, has been positive for the most part. Thinker becoming a mod is a big affirmation of transguys being welcome and included, to me. I am impressed by that.

As for MTFs, I cannot speak to that as much. I am not an MTF and I don't experience the site through that lens. I personally haven't seen MTFs being bashed on this site, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I do hope to see people who id as MTF come in here and speak to that.

Yes, there are unwelcoming things that go on here at BFP. I think it depends on the person and where we are in our lives and transition (or not), how it impacts us. I am just not someone who takes things as personally as some people do which, as I have said elsewhere, doesn't mean that they aren't personal. I guess how we approach transphobia here on BFP is in someways the same as what is needed with respect to sexism, misogyny, homophobia, racism, and all the other prejudicial attitudes which can tear us apart. I think most of us don't want a site like that, so we all have to do the work to educate ourselves and really listen to each other.

I am not personally going to be driven off by a few people saying things that I find offensive or ignorant about transpeople. That is a personal stance for me, and I think I am able to do that because I know that no matter what someone else says about me, or people like me, that I am a good guy with a big heart and I deserve a place at the table like anyone else. I refuse to allow anyone to take that away from me. As long as Dusa and Jack say I am welcome, then I like this place and many of the people here and I am staying.

[The Oopster]

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

Originally Posted by Thinker

I don't know that I can answer really. I had some pretty deep roots in the community well before I decided to transition, so I just figure no one pays me any mind because of that.

If there is something more specific you want to ask (me), then please know I will give you an honest, thoughtful reply. I certainly want to help in any way I can.

Originally Posted by June

Thank you, Thinker. So, here, let me put you on the hotseat for a moment. Do you think you kind of got "a pass" here because you were so well known by people, and you were just kind of "Our Thinker" and didn't start out being "other" or "outsider" or even "unknown"?

I wonder how it looks to those who have transitioned prior to coming to the site or even afterwards, but aren't as well known or known at all?

I feel like I'm in pretty much the same boat as thinker.

Yet i know that there are other people that have been in the community then trasitioned that haven't felt welcomed.

It's hard I know i've seen non welcoming stuff at times but I guess I've always seen it more as a certain persons personality and not as something from the community as a whole. Unfortunately someone new won't know that "that is just unfortunately how so and so acts."

We all have people that we see them post and we either know to stay out of the thread or just wait on the edge of our seat for the drama to spew forth. Unfortunately some people know how to insight drama and still stay within the TOS.

I guess the only way I can think of helping out in those situations is for people to give the newcomer assurance privately also. Sometimes addressing within the threads just helps keep the other person baited. (I just thought of this ... I just usually avoid all together. So thanks for asking because now i'll be more aware of how to support that new person.)

I feel like i'm rambling so i hope i said something ... darn heat!

[Jet]

Originally Posted by June

Okay, so feel free not to answer this, but do you think that only other FTM's see you as male? Because I see you as male, and I am pretty sure others do as well. Just because I get irritated, doesn't mean you're not a guy.

Well again, being irritated has nothing to do with my identity as a male. I don't view it like that anyway. We just had different views. I'm male, FTM and I'm the only one who cares about that. Notice how i stick with about 5 threads and that's all. I keep my distance and I'm good with that.

I don't like discussions or debates or tearing a thought apart to where there's nothing left. I'm not here because I expect comraderie or community or finding a partner. I just post my thoughts and get out without any consensus on what people believe as far as my male ID.. It just doesn't matter.

[The Oopster]

Originally Posted by June

Thank you, Koop (Still have to call you that!)

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. And wondering why some men feel really welcome here, and others don't. Kind of like I wonder how some Butches, female ID'd or not feel welcome or not.

I know some of it comes down to personality, but I also wonder if it drills down further to perceptions. Too male, too loud, too something. I wonder if it's not the Gender, but the person, how we (all of us) interact with each other that makes the difference about how welcome or welcoming people feel.

I'm glad i have this site. If somebody said something about my not belonging here it probably wouldn't reach me ... I have an automatic mute button on and i'm not going anywhere.

I've said it before that I stay here to give back. For a lot of us the path to who we are is a long slow path. I had a lot of stuff burried that needed to be uncovered in layers. I don't know who I'd be today if Nick, malcom, mike, krystal, and mike hadn't been around to be examples for me.

I was able to look at this layer of me because they were there. They gave me the freedom and strength to look at something that was soooooo burried. Yes there are ftm sites but I would never have thought of going to them because I was so disconnected from that part of me. In fact just going to a butch femme site was a total fluke because I had no clue what that meant.

I hope I always keep coming here or to a site like this. I want to be the Mike, Mike, Malcolm, krystal, or Nick in somebody else's life.

Recently when looking up information for surgery I went to a ftm site. Reflecting on my experience with that site, I think part of why a person feels welcomed or not welcomed has to do with their personal expectations.

I posted a few times on that site and felt very unwelcomed. I'm sure I was welcomed but people just didn't respond in the manner that I'm use to. People weren't sharing their experience, just resources. I was appreciative of the resources but a bit taken back that people weren't sharing their experience. If every place I went just referred me to another spot ... I just would end up with one big spinning head. All that made me feel unwelcomed.

Since I have other resources where I feel I get what I'm looking for I haven't been back. I'm sure if I stayed longer I would find a home on that site. If i didn't have support in other avenues I might have tried harder.

For me the window for trying something out online is even much shorter then in real time ... if I don't connect right away I'm gone. I wonder if some of what we see isn't that.

People come in looking for something specific don't feel it and are gone.

[Linus]

Su-weet! *flashes his new BC* They couriered it. And I'm glad I asked for the Long Form (now I have the details I missed!). w00t!

Originally Posted by June

Hi, I have a question for the Trans folks in our community.

Knowing that there are a lot of acceptance issues for everyone involved, do you think it is more difficult to be accepted or welcomed into the on and off line BF communities as a FTM or MTF?

Where do you see the differences/disparities occurring? Why do you think that is? How can we help make that better?

Thank you, and feel free to ask me for clarification.

June

I think it's hard for us to say whether it's easier or harder for FTMs and/or MTFs. I think each have their own challenges in their own right and, certainly for online, it's more about what the person themselves brings to the community.

My personal experience outside (RT) has been somewhat positive thus far except for the occasional "one-off". Being told I was traitor wasn't pleasant but it was their point of view (fear?). Since my life as being "butch" was actually short, I wonder if sometimes people do make assumptions about my past (mostly those who haven't met me) and who I am (I totally recognize that this is my thing and have to address it myself).

There is a part of me that wonders if we get our "backs up" before issues happen because we hear about all the horrible things/thoughts that others "might" have about us and it makes us defensive before we even get to the table.

I don't know if this helps but I was curious what context these questions arose out of?