The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[Soft*Silver]

In AA, they suggest you get a sponsor of the opposite sex. Why? Because then you wont have sexual or romantic feelings about them.

How heterosexist.

I had sponsors who were straight females and lesbians and bisexuals. Inappropriate shit happened with all of them. The straight chick thought I was stealing her gay homophobic boyfriend. The bisexual kept grabbing my hands and putting them on her breasts. The lesbian relapsed and ran off with my ex's best friend. Its a wonder I stayed sober. But, its a program of recovery and its INEVITABLE shit is going to happen, downhill or uphill.

And I have had straight men, gay men and bisexual men as sponsors. Straight man hit on me. In a fatherly way. (tell me that didnt fuck with my inventory!)The gay man was wonderful but I moved away and then his son died..we drifted apart sadly. The bisexual is dead...AIDS. Again, shit happens, its a program of recovery and its INEVITABLE problems would occur.

But, AA doesnt promise a perfect life, it just promises coping skills to deal with life.

And THATS why i didnt drink...

to bring this around to our new topic in this thread: gender.

Its heterosexist to think opposite genders cant work together. yes, heterosexists because it is based on the duelity of genders system of orientation. I dont know about you but I left that tricycle along time ago. No offense meant, Ap, but someone of my gender has nothing to do with my mental health and social issues. Who I sleep with or live with or fall in love with does not determine how well I will function with A, B, or C. Let alone J, and K.

btw...my sponsor now is a lesbian who is in a loving committed long term relationship with a guy. I dont know his orientation. Do I care? Not a bit. She is a damn good sponsor and I am working hard at what she gives me because she has what I want and it aint her vagina.

so...just wanted to elaborate on what I didnt have time to say earlier....

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by softness

In AA, they suggest you get a sponsor of the opposite sex. Why? Because then you wont have sexual or romantic feelings about them.

How heterosexist.

I had sponsors who were straight females and lesbians and bisexuals. Inappropriate shit happened with all of them. The straight chick thought I was stealing her gay homophobic boyfriend. The bisexual kept grabbing my hands and putting them on her breasts. The lesbian relapsed and ran off with my ex's best friend. Its a wonder I stayed sober. But, its a program of recovery and its INEVITABLE shit is going to happen, downhill or uphill.

And I have had straight men, gay men and bisexual men as sponsors. Straight man hit on me. In a fatherly way. (tell me that didnt fuck with my inventory!)The gay man was wonderful but I moved away and then his son died..we drifted apart sadly. The bisexual is dead...AIDS. Again, shit happens, its a program of recovery and its INEVITABLE problems would occur.

But, AA doesnt promise a perfect life, it just promises coping skills to deal with life.

And THATS why i didnt drink...

to bring this around to our new topic in this thread: gender.

Its heterosexist to think opposite genders cant work together. yes, heterosexists because it is based on the duelity of genders system of orientation. I dont know about you but I left that tricycle along time ago. No offense meant, Ap, but someone of my gender has nothing to do with my mental health and social issues. Who I sleep with or live with or fall in love with does not determine how well I will function with A, B, or C. Let alone J, and K.

btw...my sponsor now is a lesbian who is in a loving committed long term relationship with a guy. I dont know his orientation. Do I care? Not a bit. She is a damn good sponsor and I am working hard at what she gives me because she has what I want and it aint her vagina.

so...just wanted to elaborate on what I didnt have time to say earlier....

I have not ever been to AA, so I don't know all the right things to do for adictions. I thought we were talking about DA people, not addicts. To me it is a totally different subject.

I just thought you indicated you felt unsafe beacsue of what you experienced being a buddy and so I assumed it was not another Femme. I was wrong, I appologize.

I keep getting stuck on people feeling unsafe and wanting to help, but if I am not helping, then no problem.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by June

Just to be clear, any "Buddy System" will be negotiated on a one-to-one basis between individuals. We will not be starting a thread to match "Buddies". That is a very personal thing and no one should feel compelled to have one, or not have one.

Nothing wrong with discussing the merits, I just don't want this to get out of hand and have folks asking for a Buddy Policy, because BFP, the owners and the volunteer moderators are not licensed to administrate or facilitate help for those with DA beyond allowing space to be used for support and discussion among peers.

Thanks,
June (Moderator voice, not moderating)

I am not asking for someone suggested it and I have read several pages trying to figure out who...but really I give up.

Softness mentioned how unsafe it was and I was mulling over how maybe same gender would help. Unfortunately for us all, this is how my brain works.

I could not do it and would never ask anyone else to do something I would not do myself.

I thought we were discussing, I am sorry if it again sounded like I was asking for change.
Again and example about how some of us have differences communicating. Maybe I am too hyper focused to be on this thread.

[christie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I am not asking for someone suggested it and I have read several pages trying to figure out who...but really I give up.

Softness mentioned how unsafe it was and I was mulling over how maybe same gender would help. Unfortunately for us all, this is how my brain works.

I could not do it and would never ask anyone else to do something I would not do myself.

I thought we were discussing, I am sorry if it again sounded like I was asking for change.
Again and example about how some of us have differences communicating. Maybe I am too hyper focused to be on this thread.

Jen -

It was me who first brought up a buddy/peer system and how it might supplement, not replace, the current system. I completely understand how the site cannot be liable for such a thing, but I do think it already exists on an unspoken level - I know that there are times when I am not sure my words will convey/be interpreted as I want them to and I might ask Jess to take a gander before I hit send.

Like June, I feel that there are some important issues being discussed here. I have stuck in this conversation much more than I do others because I think its terribly important and well, I have much more investment in it. I do think that the perception of the mythical pass exists and do agree that everyone should be accountable to the same set of rules.

One of the things I have been pondering the last couple of days is how the perception of the mythical pass comes to be. Is it when we see a post prefaced with "I am ____________."? That blank could be me saying that I am in fibro fog or it could be someone on the spectrum saying they are neuro-diverse.

In making that preface, am I asking for special consideration (a pass) for the words I am about to post? Or am I clarifying mitigating circumstances which might explain how my words might be understood/misunderstood?

I know that I have done this in posts. I have been thinking about why I (or someone else) might make the preface and what the intent of the preface is.... and I don't have any answers yet.

What do ya'll think?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Jen -

It was me who first brought up a buddy/peer system and how it might supplement, not replace, the current system. I completely understand how the site cannot be liable for such a thing, but I do think it already exists on an unspoken level - I know that there are times when I am not sure my words will convey/be interpreted as I want them to and I might ask Jess to take a gander before I hit send.

Like June, I feel that there are some important issues being discussed here. I have stuck in this conversation much more than I do others because I think its terribly important and well, I have much more investment in it. I do think that the perception of the mythical pass exists and do agree that everyone should be accountable to the same set of rules.

One of the things I have been pondering the last couple of days is how the perception of the mythical pass comes to be. Is it when we see a post prefaced with "I am ____________."? That blank could be me saying that I am in fibro fog or it could be someone on the spectrum saying they are neuro-diverse.

In making that preface, am I asking for special consideration (a pass) for the words I am about to post? Or am I clarifying mitigating circumstances which might explain how my words might be understood/misunderstood?

I know that I have done this in posts. I have been thinking about why I (or someone else) might make the preface and what the intent of the preface is.... and I don't have any answers yet.

What do ya'll think?

I have seen "I am____" or "I have________" used both ways. As a please let me know if you can't understand me, I think it good and very useful. If it is a preface to a mean spirited or abusive post, it seems like BS.

Thank you so much for letting me know who it was who suggested the Buddy thing, I could not find it and was starting to think I was hallucinating. and yes, I get what you are saying I sometimes have asked you, Bit, Adele and other people to see if I am making sense. But it has been a "making sense" thing, not a saying something terrible then using AS or fibro fog as an excuse.

I think we all interpreted the words "mythical pass" differently. But I think for me, I have come to see it as using being differently able as an excuse rather than an explanation for breaking the TOS. I know it is a fine distinction but does that make sense?

My problem is I keep wanting an logical answer and a logical plan and I am realizing there is not want to be one. That there is not going to be a clear cut way this is handled. That everyone does not need clear cut answers and structure like I do. It is a learning curve for me and I appreciate the patience of everyone who has read my posts.

Not everyone wants to be helped. Some people want to cling to feeling unsafe, just as some people want to cling to making poor interpersonal choices when something as simple as an ignore button might just do the trick.

[christie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I think we all interpreted the words "mythical pass" differently. But I think for me, I have come to see it as using being differently able as an excuse rather than an explanation for breaking the TOS. I know it is a fine distinction but does that make sense?

Not everyone wants to be helped. Some people want to cling to feeling unsafe, just as some people want to cling to making poor interpersonal choices when something as simple as an ignore button might just do the trick.

Jen - I snipped your post because these two points are so very well stated. the explanation vs. excuse issue as well as persons wanting to cling to feeling unsafe.

Thank you for being so clear on points that I couldn't seem to get across.

I'm still stuck on explanation vs. excuse. I see it, as well as so many other issues with online forums, being very subjective. I might see it as explanation - another as excuse and we still have the issue of the mythical pass. Make sense?

I'm off to a day of all things busy - having my car totaled yesterday was NOT on the to-do list and just added to the physical shit AND the stress level. Yay me.

Will be back later - interested in how others feel about explanation vs. excuse.

[AtLast]

Um... the same gender discussion is bothering me because it feels like all butches may be viewed as male. I am not male. Also, some femmes (as well as some butches, both male and female identifiied and transmen) are attracted are attracted to femmes (or transmen or male identified butches).

I may very well be misunderstanding this. It is a sensitive subject sometimes for many. It is for me when I feel that all butches are being identified as male. Again, maybe I am misreading things.

Personally, a buddy is a buddy to me and I have femme buddies, butch buddies, trans buddies and het or bi buddies. None of which I am drawn to sexually.

As far as a buddy system for DA when posting, it can be a good thing at times. LOL, there have been some times, I know that my thoughts might be mingled with a bad pain day or PTSD issues. This could (not always) influence how I am perceiving posts/discussions, especially more heated ones. Maybe running a response by a buddy isn't a bad idea for me.

Hummm... but maybe just by virtue of feeling that I need to run it by a buddy means I should just calm down and not post at that time. I have certainly had times like this!

Something else I am thinking about is that sometimes DA people are very hard on themselves. I feel like there is a lot of clarity from folks here in the thread. Helpful and genuine information.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Um... the same gender discussion is bothering me because it feels like all butches may be viewed as male. I am not male. Also, some femmes (as well as some butches, both male and female identifiied and transmen) are attracted are attracted to femmes (or transmen or male identified butches).

I may very well be misunderstanding this. It is a sensitive subject sometimes for many. It is for me when I feel that all butches are being identified as male. Again, maybe I am misreading things.

Personally, a buddy is a buddy to me and I have femme buddies, butch buddies, trans buddies and het or bi buddies. None of which I am drawn to sexually.

As far as a buddy system for DA when posting, it can be a good thing at times. LOL, there have been some times, I know that my thoughts might be mingled with a bad pain day or PTSD issues. This could (not always) influence how I am perceiving posts/discussions, especially more heated ones. Maybe running a response by a buddy isn't a bad idea for me.

Hummm... but maybe just by virtue of feeling that I need to run it by a buddy means I should just calm down and not post at that time. I have certainly had times like this!

Something else I am thinking about is that sometimes DA people are very hard on themselves. I feel like there is a lot of clarity from folks here in the thread. Helpful and genuine information.

Will respond to the rest of your post later when I have time to think....But I did want to make very clear that I do not see Butches as Male...unless they see themselves as male and that is something I have to work to be honest.and still that is something I am working on.

My partner is a Female Butch. We are not stone and in no way fall into a 100% boy/girl thing except in looks.

Sorry if I sounded that way, when I say Male I mean someone who is FTM or who sees themselves as male.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=apocalipstic;159131]

My problem is I keep wanting an logical answer and a logical plan and I am realizing there is not want to be one. That there is not going to be a clear cut way this is handled. That everyone does not need clear cut answers and structure like I do. It is a learning curve for me and I appreciate the patience of everyone who has read my posts.

i, too, appreciate logical answers, apocalipstic. clear cut responses and structure, yes.

personal observations/question: this site is easy for me to follow, but this thread is not because it seems to me that all might be lovely if i 'agree' and not so much when i cannot 'agree' or be all be on the same page about .... topic... or something [else?] .

the 'somebody' for months breaking a TOS? that's what this is about- thread?

my way of seeing things -- far less people who truly are in need a pass for mistakes are given actual pardons and might even be considered the worst [insert: trouble-making]! there are a lot more people [in my experiences - thinking of the neuro thread & police, for example] who are the worst and do receive passes.

[Daywalker]

Thanks Juney

I had a couple paragraphs typed up last week to post in here, and wanted
to marinate on the topic a bit...came back, read some and decided not to
participate. The direction of the thread seem to have gone off course from
then til now. I will say that I've been guilty of giving some folks a 'pass'.
After a while though, I've revoked said pass because frankly I did not give
it thinking certain behaviors would be perpetual...that's all I have to add.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Jen -

It was me who first brought up a buddy/peer system and how it might supplement, not replace, the current system. I completely understand how the site cannot be liable for such a thing, but I do think it already exists on an unspoken level - I know that there are times when I am not sure my words will convey/be interpreted as I want them to and I might ask Jess to take a gander before I hit send.

Like June, I feel that there are some important issues being discussed here. I have stuck in this conversation much more than I do others because I think its terribly important and well, I have much more investment in it. I do think that the perception of the mythical pass exists and do agree that everyone should be accountable to the same set of rules.

One of the things I have been pondering the last couple of days is how the perception of the mythical pass comes to be. Is it when we see a post prefaced with "I am ____________."? That blank could be me saying that I am in fibro fog or it could be someone on the spectrum saying they are neuro-diverse.

In making that preface, am I asking for special consideration (a pass) for the words I am about to post? Or am I clarifying mitigating circumstances which might explain how my words might be understood/misunderstood?

I know that I have done this in posts. I have been thinking about why I (or someone else) might make the preface and what the intent of the preface is.... and I don't have any answers yet.

What do ya'll think?

you are right spot on about it being a subjective thing.
look around the website...how many veiled references do we see everyday? stuff that is clearly meant for someone, whomever that someone might be.

again, the mythical pass is about somebody repeatedly breaking the TOS, being worked with for months, and continuing to break the TOS.

nothing more. nothing less. i know that i try to preface my DA in a post if I feel like I am not being clear. i don't even know why i feel the need to do that.

however, when somebody makes racist, sexist, or personal attacks and then comes back a few hours later and use the da for an excuse? then does the same thing two days later? i have to wonder, and will usually open a dialogue with the person.

i love the buddy system that is here, on an unspoken level. i think both june and medusa have addressed the liability issues of a site initiated system.

unrelated: pls be good to yourself, because it sounds awful that car wreck. i am glad you are still here, and thankful for you not being permanently damaged.