Religious Holidays in Public Schools

[Julie]

And I was 20 years old, before I realized that the crosses on the foreheads of people - did not mean they were Manson Followers!

True Story! I was working in a personnel agency at 20 in NYC. I walked out to get my applicant... What I saw terrified me. A room full of people with black crosses on their foreheads. I ran into my bosses office and told him, we had a room filled with Manson Followers. Now how is that for ignorance?!? My first experience with Ash Wednesday.

Point - I agree... My first year of college, I took a world religion course. I always felt it should be taught in primary school.

Originally Posted by softness

I would love to see religion taught in the public school system, not as a form of worship, but as a science or humanities, or even as part of a class in science or humanities or something. Why? Because most kids dont grow up in homes that say "you can pick any religion you like". Instead, they rear their kids to believe their religion is the "IT" religion and dont educate them in alternatives. As a class, they could get introduced to east and west, native and aboriginal, agnostic and aethiest, xtian and jewish.

I dont know about you, but I was in Jr High before I found out not everyone was Catholic...

[Corkey]

Unless all religions are given equal access I don't see it being a good thing.
1. Who would teach this class?
2. Would students be required to attend?
3. What if a parent was opposed to mandatory class?
4. Would atheists be excluded?
5. Would a scientific approach be utilized, i.e., the world wasn't created in 6 days, humans didn't live at the same time as dinosaurs, and tell the real truth of evolution?

I maintain school and church don't belong together. If parents want to teach their children religion, they need to do so at home.
We need critical thinking and the math and sciences to be pushed in school, not mysticism, faith, or speculation of a God. Our children are falling further and further behind the rest of the world. Religion has dumbed down the education of the children of this country.
Oh and most of our founding fathers were Deists not Christians. They placed separation of church and state in the Constitution for a reason.

While I agree that theology is an important undertaking, I oppose it being taught in primary and high school.

[Soft*Silver]

in Jr High art class, my teacher told us to come up with a logo. So I did a Coke logo that said " Jesus, the real thing"

My teacher refused the project. She asked me if I didnt think it was disrespectful to the god I believed in. I said I didnt see the harm in it. She said she was Jewish and while she didnt see Jesus in the same way as my religion, she thought it was "too far out". (of course, this was before the logo for Coke was "Coke, the real thing" came out and became a popular marketing tool)

I blurted out " you dont look jewish" (god I was SO sheltered and ignorant!) and she asked me what someone jewish would look like. We had a really good conversation and I learned SO much from her, including, (rolling my eyes and feeling my embarassment) that Jesus himself was Jewish. No one had taught me that in Sunday School!

I think if when we are young, we are made aware of differences, as we mature, those differences wouldnt matter so much. Its when we are taught to be egocentric and see only our way, that differences make people marks for hatred based in ignorance.

[Stearns]

Originally Posted by softness

in Jr High art class, my teacher told us to come up with a logo. So I did a Coke logo that said " Jesus, the real thing"

My teacher refused the project. She asked me if I didnt think it was disrespectful to the god I believed in. I said I didnt see the harm in it. She said she was Jewish and while she didnt see Jesus in the same way as my religion, she thought it was "too far out". (of course, this was before the logo for Coke was "Coke, the real thing" came out and became a popular marketing tool)

I blurted out " you dont look jewish" (god I was SO sheltered and ignorant!) and she asked me what someone jewish would look like. We had a really good conversation and I learned SO much from her, including, (rolling my eyes and feeling my embarassment) that Jesus himself was Jewish. No one had taught me that in Sunday School!

I think if when we are young, we are made aware of differences, as we mature, those differences wouldnt matter so much. Its when we are taught to be egocentric and see only our way, that differences make people marks for hatred based in ignorance.

See, I said ART should be brought back into the schools. This worked out great

[Soon]

I think if parents wish to teach their children the fundamentals of world religions (all of which are man made and patriarchal in nature), they can do it on their own time and dime.

We are talking about the publicly funded education system, right? I thought it was clear that religion is separate -- or should be -- from public institutions.

I'm for devoting more time to developing critical thinking skills.

[Manul]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I think if parents wish to teach their children the fundamentals of world religions (all of which are man made and patriarchal in nature), they can do it on their own time and dime.

We are talking about the publicly funded education system, right? I thought it was clear that religion is separate -- or should be -- from public institutions.

I'm for devoting more time to developing critical thinking skills.

Amen and Hallelujah!

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I think if parents wish to teach their children the fundamentals of world religions (all of which are man made and patriarchal in nature), they can do it on their own time and dime.

Yes, all religions are made up by human beings, however, not all of them are patriarchal in nature. The Goddess based traditions appeared long before the mono-theist God based traditions appeared.

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For me religion and spirituality are two different things and it seems some folks are using those terms interchangeably. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices about an entity greater than and outside of us, while spirituality is a individual practice and may or may not be based on a religion.

I do think religion and not spirituality should be taught. We can teach about the religion without imposing that religion on students. I do wish it was part of the curriculum of public schools, along with art and music and physical education.

The priorities of this country are still apparently more focused on killing people and making more money, rather than educating people.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Yes, all religions are made up by human beings, however, not all of them are patriarchal in nature. The Goddess based traditions appeared long before the mono-theist God based traditions appeared.

-----------------------

For me religion and spirituality are two different things and it seems some folks are using those terms interchangeably. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices about an entity greater than and outside of us, while spirituality is a individual practice and may or may not be based on a religion.

I do think religion and not spirituality should be taught. We can teach about the religion without imposing that religion on students. I do wish it was part of the curriculum of public schools, along with art and music and physical education.

The priorities of this country are still apparently more focused on killing people and making more money, rather than educating people.

Mono-theism has been the basis of patriarchal religious beleifs. Although, gender based equality can certainly be traced back to Greek mythology.


Wouldn't this be grand! There are certainly rituals within spiritual contexts- and when you take a good long look... religions of the world have borrowed them from spiritualism.... which is a whole different thing. And actually has levels of devoutness and integration into one's life.

I do believe that one can be both spiritual and religious. And also spiritual without any ties to an organized set of religious doctrine.

I think it is the institutional nature of religion as an organized entity that bothers me the most when applied to public education in the US. It just goes against key tenets of our system of government and leaves out the world in world religion! Makes no sense to me because of the world content of the people that make up the US. Also, the spiritual base of those that are native to this country was just blown apart. And Native American spirituality does have organization to it. This is simply how a culture is able to pass on its spiritual beliefs to its people. But, with major organized religions throughout history, other things like power and control via political systems polluted the spiritual nature within them. accumulation of wealth is always at the bottom of this structure when you study the role of organized religions. Thinking about things like prayer before battle.

I don't use spirituality and religion interchangeably, but, I do find faith to apply to my spiritual realm in relation to what I practice spiritually. But faith to me, has nothing to do with anything institutional in nature. Nothing.

Yes, world religions ought to be studied in schools, but not as faith. And any rituals (like prayer) just don't fit with our constitutional make-up of separation of church and state.

Sometimes it is simply amazing to me to see advocates like those in the so called Tea Party make a case as strict constitutionalist while at the same time declaring Christian values as THE values of the US!

In this whole discussion about holidays and public school calendars, religion and spirituality just shouldn’t be part of the equation at all. And in the US, Christian religions are the time honored back drop which, to me is not OK. then, again, spirituality is deeply personal to me and just isn't about sharing like values. It is about me and what I believe and how I apply my beliefs in my life to have balance internally. I don't know what works for other people and really feel like that is their concern, not mine.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Yes, all religions are made up by human beings, however, not all of them are patriarchal in nature. The Goddess based traditions appeared long before the mono-theist God based traditions appeared.

-----------------------

For me religion and spirituality are two different things and it seems some folks are using those terms interchangeably. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices about an entity greater than and outside of us, while spirituality is a individual practice and may or may not be based on a religion.

I do think religion and not spirituality should be taught. We can teach about the religion without imposing that religion on students. I do wish it was part of the curriculum of public schools, along with art and music and physical education.

The priorities of this country are still apparently more focused on killing people and making more money, rather than educating people.

I was referring to the five major world religions--which I took at a religious school--all of which are patriarchal in nature. We had a whole course in high school based on these five and there was no room to discuss, unfortunately, any religions that were embedded in any matriarchal, Native, or pagan roots.

I do know the difference b/w spirituality and religion -- still feel the of imparting of that knowledge should up to parents if they choose and not be the responsibility of the public institution of education.

[Manul]

This is slightly off topic, but would most of you who favor more religious holidays for public school students also favor additional federal holidays (mind you these are paid holidays) which are religious in orientation?

CRS Report for Congress

[waxnrope]

Patriarchy is not limited to religion ... much of the law, government, even the degradation of nature has been argued by many feminists to have roots in patriarchy (see, for instance, Caroline Merchant and Rosemary Radford Ruther).

Rather than perpetuate ignorance, I feel that teaching world religions, teaching about patriarchy, racism, gender oppression, heterosexism, and whiteness should be taught as an interdisciplinary subject.

Ack! The self correcting speller on smart phone is maddening. Please excuse my errors.

[Stearns]

I don't think the crime rate in this country would be affected by the teaching of religion in schools. As a matter of fact, the crime rate has dropped with less observance of religion in schools (prayer, celebration of religious holidays). And, which religions would be taught? How would that be decided? And, how would they be taught? From which viewpoint?

[waxnrope]

In my experiences, subjects are taught by those who not only are members of a specific discipline, but who also have academic credentials. In progressive education, and in an interdisciplinary team approach, this CAN work quite well.