Being a "Community" Ally

[Metropolis]

How can we be a better one?

I've noticed over the years folks repeatedly announcing/acting on their allyship to one particular *group or another, that's great... but what of being an ally to the community?

For one example I notice sometimes that gets lost when being an ally to one group translates outwardly for some as needing to rush in and "stick up" for only that group, to defend/vanguard/protect or what-not only that group. To me that [I]sometimes[I/] just reads as pre-packed personalized defensiveness more than being in any way beneficial to that group and or community cohesiveness.

In that it can actually be damaging to the "defended" groups stance and perpetuates even more of an us-them atmosphere. Even just in anyones who's been here for an hour and a day can tell who's going to "side" with who even if the subject was what's your favorite sandwich. The us/them stuff has an effect on the entire community, not just the us and thems.

I've seen blind "pile ons" exacerbate the situations, muddy waters and raise the bar. I'd think if it were more were given the credit that they could stand up for themselves and "offenders" were allowed to explain rather than spend the time defending themselves against the persons spouse, best friend, cousin, realtor and dog before giving up it would have a better chance of de-escalating into understanding or at least education. Just for clarity I see this happen to butches, femmes, trans persons etc. etc etc.

Of course this isn't true for all situations, and this doesn't mean not speaking if you're involved or have something pertinent to the conversation at hand, I'm talking about the pack or mob mentality or blind defense etc. It just occurs to me that [I]we are a community over all[I/] and being a community ally would be what benefits all of us including your home group, spouse, cousin and dog.

Can we be an ally to one group and still listen to other groups and be an ally to them also?

Is it really being an ally to dismiss and verbally stick it to another group so thoroughly in the name of your home group that hard feelings between the two continue?

Can we counter off color remarks as coming from the "individual" who made them? Address "them", quote "them", without generalizing and throwing that persons entire ID (group) and grandma under the bus as being responsible?

If we supported others as well as ourselves wouldn't they be more apt to be supportive of "us"?

Generally, what are ways we can stick up for ourselves, our friends and still be an allies to everyone in the community.

I guess I'd start by say I think for one being a community ally means listening to everyone before releasing the pre-canned responses.

Last this threads subject is how we can be better community allies, and not a place to defend why you defend your "home" group... it's meant to be about bettering the atmosphere for us all. How we can better speak up for (or be allies to) our home groups without stepping on others. It's not personal, don't take it personally, over the years I've seen dozens of people/ or examples of the situations above, including myself.

Well all I can do is hope I've expressed this in the good spirit it is intended, but if not, just know I bite when overly poked or provoked.

*** By "group/s" I'm speaking of any ID be them butch, femme, transpersons, male, female etc. etc. etc.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

How can we be a better one?

I've noticed over the years folks repeatedly announcing/acting on their allyship to one particular *group or another, that's great... but what of being an ally to the community?

Such an obvious viewpoint, maybe too close to really appreciate, like you have to step back and see the whole canvas.

For one example I notice sometimes that gets lost when being an ally to one group translates outwardly for some as needing to rush in and "stick up" for only that group, to defend/vanguard/protect or what-not only that group. To me that [I]sometimes[I/] just reads as pre-packed personalized defensiveness more than being in any way beneficial to that group and or community cohesiveness.

Yes, it becomes personal. I have felt that way when I read some things. Akin to sibling rivalry? To garner the most positive attentions or to show how one group feels or is treated more like the red-headed stepchild? Sometimes it's like each group is trying to tell the other how they feel and there's all this cross-talk with no one really listening.


In that it can actually be damaging to the "defended" groups stance and perpetuates even more of an us-them atmosphere. Even just in anyones who's been here for an hour and a day can tell who's going to "side" with who even if the subject was what's your favorite sandwich. The us/them stuff has an effect on the entire community, not just the us and thems.

Yep. Even if I don't post, I find myself reading and siding with one group, then I read something else and if I allow myself to really think about it, I see the other groups point. It's not really that hard to say... I see your point. I understand and leave it at that.

I've seen blind "pile ons" exacerbate the situations, muddy waters and raise the bar. I'd think if it were more were given the credit that they could stand up for themselves and "offenders" were allowed to explain rather than spend the time defending themselves against the persons spouse, best friend, cousin, realtor and dog before giving up it would have a better chance of de-escalating into understanding or at least education. Just for clarity I see this happen to butches, femmes, trans persons etc. etc etc.

I am most frustrated with the 'having to think a certain way' mentality. As in, if I don't then something's wrong with my thinking process or I'm just not getting it and we'll pound it into you until you do get it. Um, that doesn't work for me. See below.

Of course this isn't true for all situations, and this doesn't mean not speaking if you're involved or have something pertinent to the conversation at hand, I'm talking about the pack or mob mentality or blind defense etc. It just occurs to me that [I]we are a community over all[I/] and being a community ally would be what benefits all of us including your home group, spouse, cousin and dog.

Pack or mob mentality. I saw this very early on when I started coming here and just reading. I posted some here and there. Was corrected a few times and since then I am very hesitant to give my opinions because I lack the variety of the real world experience within our community. But I'm not an idiot. I can logically think things through. That doesn't mean that I have to come to the same conclusion as you or your friends.

Can we be an ally to one group and still listen to other groups and be an ally to them also?

Yes. We are a community with great numbers and intelligent, passionate people. We can affect change, but which agenda do we follow first. There are many issues affecting our community out there. Seems like such a waste to continually chew on our own tail.

Is it really being an ally to dismiss and verbally stick it to another group so thoroughly in the name of your home group that hard feelings between the two continue?

Can we counter off color remarks as coming from the "individual" who made them? Address "them", quote "them", without generalizing and throwing that persons entire ID (group) and grandma under the bus as being responsible?

Yes. If a few people from one group have hurt you or done you wrong, well, it's not the whole group. It's like we preach about somethings in life and we do the opposite here. Race relations for example. A bad experience shouldn't leave a permanent bad mark on all the people of that race.

If we supported others as well as ourselves wouldn't they be more apt to be supportive of "us"?

It would seem that you would draw more positive feedback and support with a helping hand than throwing rotten tomatoes.

Generally, what are ways we can stick up for ourselves, our friends and still be an allies to everyone in the community.

I guess I'd start by say I think for one being a community ally means listening to everyone before releasing the pre-canned responses.

Last this threads subject is how we can be better community allies, and not a place to defend why you defend your "home" group... it's meant to be about bettering the atmosphere for us all. How we can better speak up for (or be allies to) our home groups without stepping on others. It's not personal, don't take it personally, over the years I've seen dozens of people/ or examples of the situations above, including myself.

Well all I can do is hope I've expressed this in the good spirit it is intended, but if not, just know I bite when overly poked or provoked.

*** By "group/s" I'm speaking of any ID be them butch, femme, transpersons, male, female etc. etc. etc.

Listen and communicate. Do you listen or wait to talk (Pulp Fiction, Mia Wallace to Vincent Vega). Something like that anyway..

This community is full of relationships. Every one of us is in a relationship with the other in some form or another.

After reading my responses here, I might be talking out my ass, but what the hell. It wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last

[violaine]

really great questions, metropolis, and i'm an admirer of how your brain works!

[julieisafemme]

Hi Met! Great thread. I actually like the discussions and hearing from each "home" group as you call it. I have learned so much on these sites that I never would have learned without these discussions. I guess I feel that in general most on this site are allies to the "queer" community.

For myself the question of how to be a better community member has to do with being a better person in all areas of my life. You know that expression "it's an inside job"? To be a better ally I need to participate and I need to be aware of how I participate.

I think maybe sometimes people have hard feelings against each other and not so much a group. To be a better ally I have to start with just me and not a group or a community.

[AtLastHome]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

How can we be a better one?

Last this threads subject is how we can be better community allies, and not a place to defend why you defend your "home" group... it's meant to be about bettering the atmosphere for us all. How we can better speak up for (or be allies to) our home groups without stepping on others. It's not personal, don't take it personally, over the years I've seen dozens of people/ or examples of the situations above, including myself.

Well all I can do is hope I've expressed this in the good spirit it is intended, but if not, just know I bite when overly poked or provoked.

*** By "group/s" I'm speaking of any ID be them butch, femme, transpersons, male, female etc. etc. etc.

So much good stuff in your opening post, but, this part is the one that always feels awful to me.

For me, personally, I have found that taking extra time to point out both sides in a thread discussion helps in getting across that I am not only looking at what fits for me. Whenever I have not done this and have also been pissed, the end result is just plain negative and probably only contributes to existing wedges. These wedges just plain hurt.

I know that when someone states understanding of a variable I may deal with as a FIB along with what their experience is (i.e., maybe a Transman responding to a post of mine), I feel that community-based sense of alliance. So, it seems that I ought to do the same thing.

Although I have learned so very much from this community via the site (and old one), doing research on my own helps me understand much more and be able to contribute to a discussion from a more informed place. In building community, I feel that I need to take sources that touch someone else seriously.

Yup, it gets hard sometimes because there are a lot of sensitive discussions here. We are human and can get frustrated. But, when I get away from responding personally in a negative manner (have not always been good at this), I end up feeling like I am part of a larger community and can be an ally to differing home groups in a meaningful and authentic way.

Thanks, Met! This feels like a good way to bring us together.

[honeybarbara]

I have to admit I have trouble feeling community "on line" in the past two years. I fel more community by supporting the events that are occuring locally. By putting in support to my friends who run them. Giving a bit of time and a squeek of cash. by giving encouragement. But to be an ally... by letting my friends be who they are and see them as they are, trust them, offer support by helping out. By calling them on their shit and by listening when they call me on mine. By respecting them and not repeating information. By helping people find queer accomidation, walking them to bus stops and waiting with them for a bus, calling them a cab, bringing food and an ear when things aren't great.

I don't get much of the "us" and "them" in my day to day interactions with my queer community. I know a bit goes on but I tend to see it as "oh god it's X. well, they have a history because of G, B and J. What they are doing in personal swipes rather than the "political" it looks like so I'm going to walk away from this and go and talk to A... I tend not to interact when things get that way in person. it's personal history issues and I'm not getting drawn into it. usually people poke each other with sticks they think hurts the most and it's not nearly anything about the politics they are arguing.

[AtLastHome]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I have to admit I have trouble feeling community "on line" in the past two years. I fel more community by supporting the events that are occuring locally. By putting in support to my friends who run them. Giving a bit of time and a squeek of cash. by giving encouragement. But to be an ally... by letting my friends be who they are and see them as they are, trust them, offer support by helping out. By calling them on their shit and by listening when they call me on mine. By respecting them and not repeating information. By helping people find queer accomidation, walking them to bus stops and waiting with them for a bus, calling them a cab, bringing food and an ear when things aren't great.

I don't get much of the "us" and "them" in my day to day interactions with my queer community. I know a bit goes on but I tend to see it as "oh god it's X. well, they have a history because of G, B and J. What they are doing in personal swipes rather than the "political" it looks like so I'm going to walk away from this and go and talk to A... I tend not to interact when things get that way in person. it's personal history issues and I'm not getting drawn into it. usually people poke each other with sticks they think hurts the most and it's not nearly anything about the politics they are arguing.

So much of what you are saying here, hits home.

I want this community to be one in which genuine and active alliances prevail, but know that it is really about real-time commitments.

[Kobi]

Metro,

It would be great if discussions were able to be held here using the guidelines your questions suggest.

I just dont know if it is possible. Seems once someones fur is ruffled, no one seems to know how to diffuse the situation. As such, the allies keep posting, the rest stop posting, or like me, dont even bother posting anything anymore.

It is very sad and more and more threads have been tried as to how can we do this better or that better. Great suggestions emerge but it doesnt seem to change behavior any.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Metropolis

How can we be a better one?

I've noticed over the years folks repeatedly announcing/acting on their allyship to one particular *group or another, that's great... but what of being an ally to the community?

For one example I notice sometimes that gets lost when being an ally to one group translates outwardly for some as needing to rush in and "stick up" for only that group, to defend/vanguard/protect or what-not only that group. To me that [I]sometimes[I/] just reads as pre-packed personalized defensiveness more than being in any way beneficial to that group and or community cohesiveness.

In that it can actually be damaging to the "defended" groups stance and perpetuates even more of an us-them atmosphere. Even just in anyones who's been here for an hour and a day can tell who's going to "side" with who even if the subject was what's your favorite sandwich. The us/them stuff has an effect on the entire community, not just the us and thems.

I've seen blind "pile ons" exacerbate the situations, muddy waters and raise the bar. I'd think if it were more were given the credit that they could stand up for themselves and "offenders" were allowed to explain rather than spend the time defending themselves against the persons spouse, best friend, cousin, realtor and dog before giving up it would have a better chance of de-escalating into understanding or at least education. Just for clarity I see this happen to butches, femmes, trans persons etc. etc etc.

Of course this isn't true for all situations, and this doesn't mean not speaking if you're involved or have something pertinent to the conversation at hand, I'm talking about the pack or mob mentality or blind defense etc. It just occurs to me that [I]we are a community over all[I/] and being a community ally would be what benefits all of us including your home group, spouse, cousin and dog.

Can we be an ally to one group and still listen to other groups and be an ally to them also?

Is it really being an ally to dismiss and verbally stick it to another group so thoroughly in the name of your home group that hard feelings between the two continue?

Can we counter off color remarks as coming from the "individual" who made them? Address "them", quote "them", without generalizing and throwing that persons entire ID (group) and grandma under the bus as being responsible?

If we supported others as well as ourselves wouldn't they be more apt to be supportive of "us"?

Generally, what are ways we can stick up for ourselves, our friends and still be an allies to everyone in the community.

I guess I'd start by say I think for one being a community ally means listening to everyone before releasing the pre-canned responses.

Last this threads subject is how we can be better community allies, and not a place to defend why you defend your "home" group... it's meant to be about bettering the atmosphere for us all. How we can better speak up for (or be allies to) our home groups without stepping on others. It's not personal, don't take it personally, over the years I've seen dozens of people/ or examples of the situations above, including myself.

Well all I can do is hope I've expressed this in the good spirit it is intended, but if not, just know I bite when overly poked or provoked.

*** By "group/s" I'm speaking of any ID be them butch, femme, transpersons, male, female etc. etc. etc.