Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero

[MsDemeanor]

Aj, here's one more:

7) If it's not insensitive for Muslims to hold daily prayer right on top of a 9/11 crash site that overlooks a memorial for same (they've been doing it without complaints for eight years), then why is insensitive for Muslims to learn to cook and to play basketball in an abandoned building several blocks from a 9/11 crash site?

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Aj, here's one more:

7) If it's not insensitive for Muslims to hold daily prayer right on top of a 9/11 crash site that overlooks a memorial for same (they've been doing it without complaints for eight years), then why is insensitive for Muslims to learn to cook and to play basketball in an abandoned building several blocks from a 9/11 crash site?

there you go again...............confusing the issue with trivial tidbits of information.....

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Toughy

there you go again...............confusing the issue with trivial tidbits of information.....

Yep. Quite the fact-centric little bitch, aren't I?

[Heart]

Not to mention that swaths of downtown Manhattan were built on top of the remains of African American slaves and Native peoples. Talk about "hallowed ground..."

Read this: http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/08/...-graves-slaves

[dreadgeek]

Here's the thing I find quite frustrating about this argument--I have *yet* to see a compelling reason given. What I've heard or read, so far, are lots of variations on the theme of "they have the right to build what they want, provided that they don't actually build it". I've heard a lot of statements along the lines of "it's an insult to those who died"--without saying how those who died are insulted. Yet, I haven't seen an explanation for why Muslims--all 1 billion of them--can be held responsible or, at least, share in the culpability of those 19 enterprising young men from Saudi Arabia but it is entirely unreasonable to, for instance, to hold all white Americans responsible for, say, the decimation of native populations in the Americas or the enslavement of Africans, or the apartheid that was both the custom and law in America an South Africa until the last part of the 20th century, or....

I wonder why it is that there's no explanations forthcoming about why collective responsibility applies to the minority but not the majority.


Cheers
Aj

Originally Posted by Heart

Not to mention that swaths of downtown Manhattan were built on top of the remains of African American slaves and Native peoples. Talk about "hallowed ground..."

Read this: http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/08/...-graves-slaves

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Yep. Quite the fact-centric little bitch, aren't I?

Originally Posted by Toughy

there you go again...............confusing the issue with trivial tidbits of information.....

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by Toughy

there you go again...............confusing the issue with trivial tidbits of information.....

I'm thinking you must be jesting. "trivial bits of information." ?? are you being funny/sarcastic?

[suebee]

Originally Posted by paposeco

I'm thinking you must be jesting. "trivial bits of information." ?? are you being funny/sarcastic?

I think she's making fun of the folks who are protesting the mosque, but seem to have no idea what they're talking about.

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by suebee

I think she's making fun of the folks who are protesting the mosque, but seem to have no idea what they're talking about.

ahhh...thank God, for a minute there....lol.

I know that there are 'radicals', nut-jobs, of every kind, case and point--->right-wingnut-christians! These folks do and have done more damage than any Mosque anywhere will ever do.

If we say NO! to the building of the Mosque, then we must say NO! to any Church being built anywhere (following the nut-bags' logic), because Lord knows how much death and destruction has been been committed and sanctioned by the "Christians". (read some books on the history of the Christian movement). I used to call myself a Christian, but these radicalChristians, give God/Christ a bad name. If they're really CHRISTians, why are they being so UN-Christ like.
Here's the deal, they are NOT CHRISTians, if they were, they would look more like CHRIST, instead of a bunch of fear and hate mongers.
So you see, there are nut-jobs of every faith, not just the Muslims or someone else we don't agree with. Don't just swallow what people tell you, not even FOX & FREAKS, Palin...etc, use the brain the good Lord gave you. Think for yourself, reason, educate yourself, discuss, be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so. Why do these self-righteous people(fear&hate mongers) think God died and left themin charge of every body's life, when they can't even manage their own hypocrisy.
I say, let the Muslims have their building.
The rest of you Palins and Becks and Rushs..go get some humility and look up the word HYPOCRISY. And instead of proclaiming that YOU are a CHRISTIAN, how about actually LIVING AND ACTING LIKE A CHRISTian.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by paposeco

ahhh...thank God, for a minute there....lol.

I know that there are 'radicals', nut-jobs, of every kind, case and point--->right-wingnut-christians! These folks do and have done more damage than any Mosque anywhere will ever do.

If we say NO! to the building of the Mosque, then we must say NO! to any Church being built anywhere (following the nut-bags' logic), because Lord knows how much death and destruction has been been committed and sanctioned by the "Christians". (read some books on the history of the Christian movement). I used to call myself a Christian, but these radicalChristians, give God/Christ a bad name. If they're really CHRISTians, why are they being so UN-Christ like.
Here's the deal, they are NOT CHRISTians, if they were, they would look more like CHRIST, instead of a bunch of fear and hate mongers.
So you see, there are nut-jobs of every faith, not just the Muslims or someone else we don't agree with. Don't just swallow what people tell you, not even FOX & FREAKS, Palin...etc, use the brain the good Lord gave you. Think for yourself, reason, educate yourself, discuss, be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so. Why do these self-righteous people(fear&hate mongers) think God died and left themin charge of every body's life, when they can't even manage their own hypocrisy.
I say, let the Muslims have their building.
The rest of you Palins and Becks and Rushs..go get some humility and look up the word HYPOCRISY. And instead of proclaiming that YOU are a CHRISTIAN, how about actually LIVING AND ACTING LIKE A CHRISTian.

Personally, I believe we have enough churches of every type and would love to see more schools, hospitals, etc. being built. I am spiritual and have some left over churchy-stuff and honor anyone's religion, but, as one GOP congressperson said.. COME ON! Yes, I'm being a smartass. Sometimes the tax breaks relgious organizations and churches get, plus the amount of private funds thrown their way and the state of our social services, I get really pissed.

I am so tired of the ME, ME, MINE set of so many in the US.

[AtLast]

Just mulling something over...

Would there be a difference to the anti-Islamic factions, if the planned prayer room (it is NOT a Mosque!!) were taken out of the equation? Just a community center for Muslim folks, without a room designated for prayer? Frankly, I think not. This BS would have been the same if the proposed plans did not have this as part of the construction goals.

Also, I have taken part in many events, etc. in community centers of all kinds. Some religious, some not. Most have some kind of prayer room in them, and many are non-sectarian- just a room for quiet contemplation and some privacy. Even in centers that were built by a particular religion, prayer rooms were open for anyone of any religion (or none) to use. Hospitals with no religious ties also have such rooms or chapels which are open to all.

Frankly, most types of municipal community-based organizational structures have to follow codes and ordinances based within their municipality and cannot stop anyone from using their facilities as long as dues, etc. are paid and rules followed. A Catholic or Baptist can utilize gym equipment, rent facilities for an event, etc. in a community center of another faith.

Hummmmm... I have given myself some more homework as to finding out if in fact this prayer room would be open to any person, including non-Muslims (having a quiet, meditative space in a large noisy city is a good thing for any of us, I believe)?

Argh... where do I look into NYC ordinances for this kind of structure and organization? Just because it is being constructed by a particular religion, does not mean it will serve only that population.

Trying to focus on the community in the community center concept, here!

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by paposeco

ahhh...thank God, for a minute there....lol.

I know that there are 'radicals', nut-jobs, of every kind, case and point--->right-wingnut-christians! These folks do and have done more damage than any Mosque anywhere will ever do.

If we say NO! to the building of the Mosque, then we must say NO! to any Church being built anywhere (following the nut-bags' logic), because Lord knows how much death and destruction has been been committed and sanctioned by the "Christians". (read some books on the history of the Christian movement). I used to call myself a Christian, but these radicalChristians, give God/Christ a bad name. If they're really CHRISTians, why are they being so UN-Christ like.
Here's the deal, they are NOT CHRISTians, if they were, they would look more like CHRIST, instead of a bunch of fear and hate mongers.
So you see, there are nut-jobs of every faith, not just the Muslims or someone else we don't agree with. Don't just swallow what people tell you, not even FOX & FREAKS, Palin...etc, use the brain the good Lord gave you. Think for yourself, reason, educate yourself, discuss, be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so. Why do these self-righteous people(fear&hate mongers) think God died and left themin charge of every body's life, when they can't even manage their own hypocrisy.
I say, let the Muslims have their building.
The rest of you Palins and Becks and Rushs..go get some humility and look up the word HYPOCRISY. And instead of proclaiming that YOU are a CHRISTIAN, how about actually LIVING AND ACTING LIKE A CHRISTian.

I am so tired that I must respond to all of your interpretations regarding
this threads topic when I find more time.
I will say you seem to be generalizing many groups of different peoples.
And of course being Bipolar The words "nut-jobs" and "nut-bags" jumped right off your post at me since I abhor those words.
Do you feel you are living and acting as a Christian? Or a "fear and hate" monger yourself in this post?

"be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so." I look forward to your open mindedness when I post.

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I am so tired that I must respond to all of your interpretations regarding
this threads topic when I find more time.
I will say you seem to be generalizing many groups of different peoples.
And of course being Bipolar The words "nut-jobs" and "nut-bags" jumped right off your post at me since I abhor those words.
Do you feel you are living and acting as a Christian? Or a "fear and hate" monger yourself in this post?

"be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so." I look forward to your open mindedness when I post.

I was not 'generalizing' about anything or anyone. There are, like I said, crazy people(by choice, because they choose not educate themselves), that do hateful things, and the said people come all in types, yes, I did reffer to them as 'nut-jobs', (that is what they are, they weren't born with it, they choose to be ignorant to the point of hate and violence) I think it's one good description, for that segment of folks, surely they are not rational! I did not know that you are bipolar, my thread was in no way meant to offend you nor anyone else on this site. There are too many words that may offend a lot of people for various reasons, our expression here on this post or any other, would be rather limited, if we had to check with everyone to make sure that this word or that didn't "offend" someone. I've read things on this very post that have rubbed me the wrong way, but hey..it's freedom of speech/expression.
I am sorry you are bipolar, but I in no way meant to hurt or disrespect YOU or any other. Now, as far as me being a Christian, (I do the best I can with God's help, even with all my faults I try to be aware of my words and actions, but you can't please everybody)..but generally speaking that is between me and God! I'm sure you may have reason to question your own spirituality from time to time, but that likewise is your business. As for humbling myself, thanks,... I'll take that into consideration, in the light of your open minded response to my point of view.
Know this one thing for sure, I am the last person that you will find being a "fear and hate monger"! I have too many times been a victim of this crap to pass it on to anyone else!! I'm glad that you are 'looking forward' to my 'open mindeness'..when you or Anyone Else posts. I do not believe I've disrespected anyone here, not intentionally. I'm sorry if my words upset you, or triggered something. My words were not meant to hurt, like everyone else on this post, I was just adding my own two cents by stating the truth about some people, be they christian, muslim, catholic, or what have you. In a nut-shell (excuse me)I was speaking about intolerance as a whole. It was not an attack on you. You have the right to your opinion, without being scolded for expressing it right? well so does everybody else.
This is a democracy, if there are folks here that were offended by me and my opinion, please let me know. I realize that most if not all of you don't know me, I was just expressing my opinion, like the rest of you...but if you find that what I've written was offensive, "hateful and fear mongering"..than let me know and I'll be gone from this thread. Thanks. . posts

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I am so tired that I must respond to all of your interpretations regarding
this threads topic when I find more time.
I will say you seem to be generalizing many groups of different peoples.
And of course being Bipolar The words "nut-jobs" and "nut-bags" jumped right off your post at me since I abhor those words.
Do you feel you are living and acting as a Christian? Or a "fear and hate" monger yourself in this post?

"be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so." I look forward to your open mindedness when I post.

I find it interesting that you assume I am overtly triggered by certain words yet you seem triggered by your own words thinking it was I that was using them when they were quoted from your own posts.

"Do you feel you are living and acting as a Christian? Or a "fear and hate" monger yourself in this post?

"be open minded..there are other points of view just as valid as yours, perhaps (if you humble yourself) more so." I look forward to your open mindedness when I post."

The above is your own thoughts I quoted in my last post.

And no, I do not think IMO that a Proposed Mosque Near Ground Zero is appropriate. And I try not to be a hypocrite and live my life like a Christian.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by paposeco

I'm thinking you must be jesting. "trivial bits of information." ?? are you being funny/sarcastic?

No I was actually very serious......laughin....

seriously I was being sarcastic.....msdemeanor and I are old lefty friends.........


besides...........in this crowd had I been serious my ass would be flaming big time...........laughin

[paposeco]

Originally Posted by Toughy

No I was actually very serious......laughin....

seriously I was being sarcastic.....msdemeanor and I are old lefty friends.........


besides...........in this crowd had I been serious my ass would be flaming big time...........laughin

from one leftyto another...I'm glad you were being "seriously...sarcastic", and not sarcastly serious...lol

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by paposeco

from one leftyto another...I'm glad you were being "seriously...sarcastic", and not sarcastly serious...lol

Hey, we can count on Toughy for this.... way serious informed, lefty. Sometimes I get so crazed by what is going on, a little humor of any kind helps!