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#1 | |
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#2 | |
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Bully, I really was not being specific to you. I know our experiences are and have been different and I also think the both of us see ourselves as part of this community and can live with differences. I was not trying to single you out.
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#3 |
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Yes, I realize that.
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Bully, my experience is very different than what is often (not always) presented here and in the real-time B-F/Tg/I/multi-sexuality based community I live in. This has become one of the reasons I am not posting as much in threads like this anymore. Also, many folks here are trying to figure out their gender variables and struggling deeply. I have been thinking that I'd rather see these members be able to find their path without so much of the divisive conversations we can get into. PM messages work well if we want to really talk on a more personal basis. And sure, as a lesbian, I tire of the anti-lesbian, or as aptly described in the TOS, lesbian-phobic rhetoric that I often see here. Although, with the inclusion of lesbian-phobia in the TOS, I view the admin as top notch in recognizing the problem for what it is- bigotry about a sexual minority. Kudos to the admin! Yes, I have experienced butch-phobia and seen transphobia as well as femme-phobia from separatist lesbians. However, they do not represent the all lesbians and certainly not the majority. In some ways, I feel like the question posed to (only) female-identified butches about our views on butch being used by some of the gender identifications here that claim masculine, male, or man is a form of baiting. We don't need any more division among us. And I do use us as inclusive. As I stated, there are many fully transitioned transmen that have a deep and long history of butch identity and I just don't see how that can be wiped-out simply due to transitioning. Butch is part of the narrative we all have experience with as femme (considering what many femmes get blasted with if they are involved with a TG person). Sometimes, I honestly do not understand why there is so much division among us on websites like this. This is just not my real-time experience. I will welcome the day when butch is not discussed in terms of Trans or visa versa and female is not compared to male in the same ways it has been for centuries. We (all of us) have the opportunity to transcend patriarchal bigotry right in front of us. I hope we seize this opportunity and write a very different history along with gender presentations and interaction. Historically, I see no better time to banish gender myths and sexism. But, we have to take the lead and get un-stuck. Personally, I accept anyone's claim of butch. Last edited by AtLast; 09-02-2010 at 01:58 PM. |
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#5 |
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AtLast, I didn't find the question being posed to be baiting at all, especially taking into consideration who asked it. The reason I answered privately is because it's very obvious that my participation is not welcomed by some on this thread.
I responded to Greyson's post yesterday only because I didn't want there to be an impression that Soon's question was being ignored and my experience is very much indeed different than his. I do agree with you that my experience of butch in the real world is very different than what I find online. Now back to your male comparisons without any further intrusions from me.
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Ok so back on track guys, any thing to add?
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#7 |
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I would like to offer an apology to anyone that was offended by the medical terms I posted this morning. It was not my intent to mean anything rude or hateful.
I of all people do not have issues with how one id's. I do feel like we all at some point and time we have all traveled some of the same roads during our journeys. Earlier in the day I had a conversation about the same words. Most people use the wrong term anyway. The defenitions were straight from one of my medical books from school. Again my apologies.
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#9 | |
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#10 |
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I explained where the origin of my question came from and don't appreciate, At Last, your belief that I was or may be baiting anyone.
After Bully PM'd me with her response, I let it go b/c I realized that this was the wrong thread/venue to ask those who would be able to respond; I apologize for wanting opinions from those to whom this thread was not designed. Last edited by Soon; 09-02-2010 at 03:24 PM. |
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#11 | |
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The question grey posed was directed at butches like me! Feel free to PM me with anything. This is just going to spin off into exactly the kind of nonsense that hurts all of us. I don't want to have anything to do with that. I'm tired of the hurt these discussions can cause simply due to jumping to conclusions as opposed to asking for clarification. I'm confused about something. If you do not want post from non-trans persons in this zone, why have questions posed to and about us? Since other female-identified butches are posting here, I thought I was invited to post as a member of this site and community as the identification I hold. I will not continue to read the thread, or post in it. Last edited by AtLast; 09-02-2010 at 03:38 PM. |
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