Negotiating Silence

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

So I felt silenced, but I spoke my truth anyway.

That RIGHT there is so important I wanted to blow it up to 7 Arial Black and make it red.

I resisted that urge.

But! That's what needs to happen.

If you (generic) feel silenced by me (specific), speak up anyway. Trust me when I say others will agree with you and support you.

Just trying to stay in the Me-Me zone!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Ok. Now I'd like to add something else to the mix.

What about Silencing through gossip? Shunning. Labeling of a person as a slut, a stalker, a gold digger or obsessed?

This is something we can all combat. Sending a pm to another member devaluing another member? It has been my experience that nobody ever goes to the person being shredded and *asks* before perpetuationg the bullshit.

Apretty spoke of a true imbalance of power. I think there is an imbalance of power in these kinds of situations. The most painful thing for me has been seeing a person in authority (or perceived authority) rip a member in public. For speaking a truth. For having a dissenting opinion. It sets an ugly stage.

Gossip is definitely silencing, I think, because it takes the core of our justice system away. Innocent until proven guilty. It's like when you hear a song and then you hear another version of that same song. A study done long ago (that I have no way of digging up now so you all are just going to have to believe me in that it was done and I read up on it) came to the conclusion in this situation (or one mirroring the concept) that you would prefer the first version of the song you heard. I have noticed with myself that this is true with movies as well. My point? We tend to believe what we hear/see/learn first. Prime example? Marketing and advertising.

So, if I say something about person X to person Y, then person X is going to tend to believe me over person Y. Of course, there are variations. If persons X and Y had been best friends for 12 years previously, then neither would probably believe me. However, here, many of us are isolated from the reality of others. What we read and how we feel when we read it are our truths.

Bit mentioned something along that line that I agree with.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I get the sense that the more rep you give and get the stronger you rep power. I know that vbulletin comes with the negative and neutral rep features, but they are not implemented here. We've all seen what a disaster THAT can be. NeedToKnowitis is contagious. Knock it off!

I find seeing someone being told to knock it off silencing.

KIDDING!!!

I have nothing but for you, missy miss.

I think you are correct in how the rep system works, from what I've noticed, as well as NeedtoKnowititis.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

What about freedom of speech? Don't we have a right to say what we feel, even if it offends others? Without the fear of being negatively repped, etc?

I honestly think that freedom of speech no longer exists, which therefore means people in this world are being silenced

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

What about freedom of speech? Don't we have a right to say what we feel, even if it offends others? Without the fear of being negatively repped, etc?

I honestly think that freedom of speech no longer exists, which therefore means people in this world are being silenced

Problem is, now quoting my wife's father, "Your rights end at the beginning of my nose". Just as yelling fire in a crowded theater may be your right, however if someone gets killed in the stampede, (your) guilt of manslaughter will be justified.
Our rights of speech must be tempered with good judgement of when and how to say something. That is imperative, in my judgement.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Problem is, now quoting my wife's father, "Your rights end at the beginning of my nose". Just as yelling fire in a crowded theater may be your right, however if someone gets killed in the stampede, (your) guilt of manslaughter will be justified.
Our rights of speech must be tempered with good judgement of when and how to say something. That is imperative, in my judgement.

That is still being silenced, which is my whole point, don't tell someone they can or can't say or do as they please and then come around with all this justifications and stipulations. Justifications and stipulations do not set well with me by any means.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

That is still being silenced, which is my whole point, don't tell someone they can or can't say or do as they please and then come around with all this justifications and stipulations. Justifications and stipulations do not set well with me by any means.

No one that I'm aware of has said any such thing. Your right to free speech is just as important as another's, not more important. I think tone is everything, and I have been known to be blunt, still am, my tone is interpreted by every one differently. My words are the same for everyone, how you the listener take them is strictly up to your ears. Saying something in a generally positive way, is much different then saying it in a confrontational way, and that my friend is the difference.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

What about freedom of speech? Don't we have a right to say what we feel, even if it offends others? Without the fear of being negatively repped, etc?

I honestly think that freedom of speech no longer exists, which therefore means people in this world are being silenced

Doesn't freedom of speech go both ways? I mean I hear people say they want freedom of speech, but then they want the buck to stop there. Just as anyone has the *freedom* to say hurtful, racist, misogynistic or prejudice things, others have the *freedom* to speak up about it.

*Freedom* does not = A free pass.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Doesn't freedom of speech go both ways? I mean I hear people say they want freedom of speech, but then they want the buck to stop there. Just as anyone has the *freedom* to say hurtful, racist, misogynistic or prejudice things, others have the *freedom* to speak up about it.

*Freedom* does not = A free pass.

not asking for a free pass, just the fact that a person should be able to say or do what they want without the fear of being banned, repped negatively, etc.

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

not asking for a free pass, just the fact that a person should be able to say or do what they want without the fear of being banned, repped negatively, etc.

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

What about other peoples freedom of speech though? Those negative reps and bans encompass that freedom too. What you are describing sounds more like anarchy than freedom of speech.

Please note, I am not trying to silence you. I'm just discussing your post. If we need to agree to disagree that is okay by me. I love Eleanor Roosevelt's quote "Never ask of others what you yourself are not willing to give".

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Hmmm you know you might be right anarchy might be a better choice of words and to what I seek.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

not asking for a free pass, just the fact that a person should be able to say or do what they want without the fear of being banned, repped negatively, etc.

But what I do have a problem with is someone trying to silence me by say rules, etc.

This would work if we could trust one another not to say or do thing intentionally to hurt. Unfortunately, we all know that people will do and say things that hurt--sometimes intentionally.

There are things that I think do NEED to be silenced. Things that SuperFemme mentioned like racism and that ilk.

I do not believe we have the right to say anything we want in public. That is not, to me, what freedom of speech is meant for. Plus, that is a fairly American (I think) concept so it may not play well in all cultures.

I also am very much a change from within rather than a change from without which is what I view anarchy as. A very simplistic view to be sure!

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Arwen

This would work if we could trust one another not to say or do thing intentionally to hurt. Unfortunately, we all know that people will do and say things that hurt--sometimes intentionally.

There are things that I think do NEED to be silenced. Things that SuperFemme mentioned like racism and that ilk.

I do not believe we have the right to say anything we want in public. That is not, to me, what freedom of speech is meant for. Plus, that is a fairly American (I think) concept so it may not play well in all cultures.

I also am very much a change from within rather than a change from without which is what I view anarchy as. A very simplistic view to be sure!

I agree with the first paragraph, and I do know people do, do those things on purpose.

I am just the type who says what and to whom I want to in public, that's how I was brought up. I am also very blunt, honest and rude about things when pissed off.