Open Letter: Dear Femme

[blush]

Do the terms "high" and "low" femme add to this feeling of not being "femme enough?" They've always felt like a ranking system to me.

[christie]

Originally Posted by blush

Do the terms "high" and "low" femme add to this feeling of not being "femme enough?" They've always felt like a ranking system to me.

Thank you for bringing this up!

It does feel like a ranking system to me. I have never understood it...

To me, I see "high femme" and I wonder what that person might be smoking! Is that like, "high as gas" or "high as Jesus"??

Its funny that I have never seen "low femme"...

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by christie0918

Its funny that I have never seen "low femme"...

I think this might apply to any femme shorter than 5'0".
But.... I could be wrong.

[christie]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

I think this might apply to any femme shorter than 5'0".
But.... I could be wrong.

LMAO!!! I thought that was any femme other than me... I usually tower over everyone... no matter the ID...

[Julie]

Originally Posted by blush

Do the terms "high" and "low" femme add to this feeling of not being "femme enough?" They've always felt like a ranking system to me.

Blush.. I sarcastically have in my profile as my identity: Femme (neither high nor low). As I have heard these terms and have been asked, if I identify as a high femme or just a femme (lol). Are we talking maintenance here? Pretty much astounds me.

And what does high maintenance vs. low maintenance really mean? I am not a car for god sake! Though I do prefer rich dark roast coffee rather than maxwell house. Get's my engine purring!

Julie

[apretty]

Originally Posted by blush

Do the terms "high" and "low" femme add to this feeling of not being "femme enough?" They've always felt like a ranking system to me.

don't even get me started.

i am so overly done with the term *high* femme as if there's some HIGHerarcy of femme--if that's the case,
where are all the HIGH butches?

i recall this sort-of date i had, years ago with this not-extremely well put together (which i don't mind, but bare with me, i have a point), nor educated in the ways of "how you conduct yourself on a dinner with me" type-butch. it was summer, i was wearing a teal blouse, black capris and cute sandals (hello! date-appropriate femme-wear! duh!) well this misguided and khaki-shorts-wearing butch sat across from me at this *pizzeria* and began to compare *femme* --his preference for *high* femme (while i denounce the term) and what it means to be *high femme* and it all basically came down to the heels and stockings that this *other* lady-femme-person apparently *lived* in evening wear 24/7. really? to the grocery store? that's just stupid. i repeat, it's stupid to wear evening wear to the grocery store and it does NOT make you HIGH anything.

i mean what the holy fuck--well, next he informed me that i'm not a *natural* submissive--which, enthralled me, because (tongue-in-cheek, here) i am sure, like all of my good sister femmes, i too love being told "about me" by someone i don't know/didn't ask (and who i have zero intention of submitting to/for because frankly, it takes something a little more than a daddy 'title' to get me there. see: ) ok, and if i sound rude, NONE of these people are on this website and i have no ill will towards this person--really, he just was/is misguided in his attempt to define *femme* to me (and not expect that i'll take the opportunity to fuck with him). and the topper: when all is said and done, i am not being a HIGH or GOOD femme because i am extremely disagreeable. and frankly, i can be disagreeable a LOT of the time--it doesn't take from or add to my GENDER.

/end rant. and i blame my sister-femme, blush for getting me all riled on a sunday.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by apretty

a teal blouse, black capris and cute sandals (hello! date-appropriate femme-wear! duh!) well this misguided and khaki-shorts-wearing butch sat across from me at this *pizzeria* and began to compare *femme* --his preference for *high* femme (while i denounce the term) and what it means to be *high femme* and it all basically came down to the heels and stockings that this *other* lady-femme-person apparently *lived* in evening wear 24/7. really? to the grocery store? that's just stupid. i repeat, it's stupid to wear evening wear to the grocery store and it does NOT make you HIGH anything.

Holy Hannah! I'd have left him sitting there with cheese hanging out of his mouth.

Now THAT ranking annoys me. I wasn't even considering it coming from a Butch. That one needed an attitude adjustment and I hope you gave him one.

That kind of ranking is about someone else needing to be seen by who is on their arm. That's a shallowness none of us need in our lives. And I'm glad you learned that about that before you actually developed any relationship with him.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Arwen

Holy Hannah! I'd have left him sitting there with cheese hanging out of his mouth.

Now THAT ranking annoys me. I wasn't even considering it coming from a Butch. That one needed an attitude adjustment and I hope you gave him one.

That kind of ranking is about someone else needing to be seen by who is on their arm. That's a shallowness none of us need in our lives. And I'm glad you learned that about that before you actually developed any relationship with him.

yes, well you can only try to educate so much... i don't think a word of what i was saying got through at all. and honestly, sometimes i'll participate in a situation longer than is necessary because i'm fascinated by what someone is saying/doing--and not the good fascinated, more like morbid curiosity. this was definitely one of those times. and well, i had to share--that was a real life *example* of what "high femme" means to some--and i am sadly of the thinking that he isn't the only one that thinks like that. (that's what really bothers me.)

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by apretty

yes, well you can only try to educate so much... i don't think a word of what i was saying got through at all. and honestly, sometimes i'll participate in a situation longer than is necessary because i'm fascinated by what someone is saying/doing--and not the good fascinated, more like morbid curiosity. this was definitely one of those times. and well, i had to share--that was a real life *example* of what "high femme" means to some--and i am sadly of the thinking that he isn't the only one that thinks like that. (that's what really bothers me.)

I have to wonder if that isn't a case of media socialization or if that was what his mom was like. may have helped but you are right...some people don't want to learn.

And that's probably okay. Those that want an Angelina Jolie body with a Donna Reed personality and Paula Deen in the kitchen are going to be searching a long damned time. I kind of feel sorry for the emptiness in them that will never ever get filled.

And those femmes who are constantly trying to cram themselves into that picture frame... how do they do it?

[apretty]

i just don't think it's real. and i'm about calling out the shit when i see it.

and i can totally understand someone with an overly developed sense of fashion (hello, i worked in womens' retail for years!) wanting another person with *also* an overly developed sense of fashion.... but you (in my world) don't get to dress like a schlub (EZ's word) and talk to me about stockings, heels and pencil skirts (not that he'd know what a pencil skirt was). that sooooo doesn't work for me. i am the type of person to point that all out (when my more subtle methods haven't worked, of course).

[evolveme]

Mm. Well.

I thought "high" and "low" femme were merely reflective of altered and mood states.

[SuperFemme]

I scare the Arwen? I am pretty sure my perception is not skewed about you Arwen. You are the epitome of Strong/Hot/Femme to me. You don't take shit, you speak your mind and you do it all while looking gorgeous. Jeans and a t-shirt look as alluring on you as a ball gown. You shine from the inside out.

Remember Vegas Arwen? You danced the entire night at the Ball and I sat in a chair with nobody willing to approach me, talk to me, or ask me to dance. You came over twitterpated and told me you felt like the Bell of the Ball. It was transformative for you. I told you that i felt i-n-v-i-s-i-b-l-e. You were shocked.

I was not. I am used to it. I don't make effort to "perform" Femme. I really am just me all of the time. My world view doesn't measure girliness in others, but rather cerebral stimulation, kindness, empathy, and heart. All of which you carry very well. I'm not high. I'm not low. I don't see others as high or low in any kind of rating system or higherarchy (thanks ap).

I may or may not be confuzzled on how I could possibly scare you. Pet my head please.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by blush

Do the terms "high" and "low" femme add to this feeling of not being "femme enough?" They've always felt like a ranking system to me.

For me, they don't. When someone id's as a "high" femme, I see, in my mind's eye, someone who likes to put on makeup and do the whole heels&hose drag.

I've never ever thought of it as a ranking or rating at all. I just see it as a qualifier of how much fussin' someone likes to do over their personal appearance.

But honestly, the only time I feel like there is a competition, for me, is how "girly" one can be. And it's a problem in my world to be seen as "not" girly enough.

That's more of a rating/ranking in my world than make-up and clothing (which is my sole identifier for high vs low femme.)

It's the simpering and giggling that get me because I don't personally get it. And, grin, I'm gonna say it outloud. It's the whole Daddy/girl thing played out in public. DO NOT GET IT AT ALL.

I get it as a personal, behind bedroom doors thing. I do not get it as a public play thing. And that's my hang up and it's my issue to deal with. I do not think others should modify their behaviour.

But that is what can also make me feel "not enough" because I am simply not willing to call someone "Daddy" and giggle and coo.

I rambled again. Blush, for what it's worth, you are one of the ones who can make me worry about my own femmeness. And it's not makeup or clothes or any of that. It is simply your own sweet self and your energy. I sometimes feel like a linebacker around women who are petite. Grin. So there you have it.

On my list of femmes who scare me....Blush and Puplove too. OH and femmes like Pinkielee who has the most amazing fashion sense. Shari goes in that category too as well as Adele.

So that's MY issue. It's my problem that I compare myself to others and sometimes find myself wanting.

That's not a butch issue. No butch is standing in the background saying, "Why can't you be more like MedusaIsadoraGemmeAnyoneOtherThanYou." That's my own low self-esteem sneaking up on me.

And I am on a hunt to destroy that voice. But this thread is really helping me identify what I trigger it with. ooh Badger.

So, again, high vs low? Not so much. Arwen vs other femmes? Hideous ranking system where I used to always lose. I'm learning though. I am learning.