Pagan

[Bit]

Ooops, edited to say I'm replying to Nat's questions about money magic--didn't quote her cuz I forgot to check on whether the page would turn...


No, I don't tithe, although if I could, I would GLADY spend 10% of our income at the local pagan store!!

Yes, I have done money magic. Yes it works. YES you need to be careful and set parameters.... Early on, my money magic resulted in car accidents--you know, people rear ended us, and then we got settlements--NOT what I had in mind.

So now my main parameter when I do money magic is that it MUST be completely positive means that brings me money, and nothing painful or bad may happen to bring me this money--"bad" in my judgment, not in the universe's judgment, which is way more impersonal than mine. Sometimes the money shows up as a $20 bill in a parking lot (although the last one was counterfeit, dang), sometimes as a rebate of a utility company deposit, sometimes as an outright gift, sometimes as a contest or lottery win (small so far, no jackpots). I'm sure it will show up in other ways, too... heck, every once in a while, the grocery store sends me coupons for free stuff and that counts, too!

How I feel about it is frustrated that I haven't yet won the big money, and frustrated that I evidently still have some sort of "I don't deserve anything" mental block going on. At the same time I feel grateful, grateful, grateful for all the times that money has shown up just in time.

I try to live in the cycle of abundance, rather than in scarcity mode. I try to be like water, always flowing, always more where that came from.

But that does remind me, you cannot escape the limits of bad parameters by saying "abundance" instead of money. The first time I tried THAT, I gained twenty pounds.

[Nat]

thanks bit - your post was both informative and cute (the abundance comment - ha!)

I think I have a lot of ambivalence about money. I can't seem to work it out inside my own head and heart, and I feel like my intention is too muddy.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Nat

thanks bit - your post was both informative and cute (the abundance comment - ha!)

It's funny today. It wasn't funny when I had to go buy new pants back then! But yeah... I do laugh about it now.

Originally Posted by Nat

I think I have a lot of ambivalence about money. I can't seem to work it out inside my own head and heart, and I feel like my intention is too muddy.

Are you a writer? I worked at least part of it out by journaling. I wrote about what money means to me, why I want it, why I need it, why I deserve it... oh that one was HARD hard hard!!! I wrote about cycles and abundances and scarcity and fear.... and yanno, at the bottom of it all--at least so far--is fear. I'm afraid, on a deep deep level, that I'm going to be badly punished if I have money... it's the religious brainwashing I was subjected to and I haven't yet gotten rid of all of it. *sigh* But I work on it all that I can, and it is getting better. I've released a LOT of the fear just by using the mantra "may we prosper in all things, especially financially" on a regular basis.

Uh oh, big thunder--better disconnect computers until tomorrow!

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Bit

It's funny today. It wasn't funny when I had to go buy new pants back then! But yeah... I do laugh about it now.



Are you a writer? I worked at least part of it out by journaling. I wrote about what money means to me, why I want it, why I need it, why I deserve it... oh that one was HARD hard hard!!! I wrote about cycles and abundances and scarcity and fear.... and yanno, at the bottom of it all--at least so far--is fear. I'm afraid, on a deep deep level, that I'm going to be badly punished if I have money... it's the religious brainwashing I was subjected to and I haven't yet gotten rid of all of it. *sigh* But I work on it all that I can, and it is getting better. I've released a LOT of the fear just by using the mantra "may we prosper in all things, especially financially" on a regular basis.

Uh oh, big thunder--better disconnect computers until tomorrow!

Bit - I'm sorry I missed this. I do write in a journal but not nearly enough to have clear thoughts. I think I'll take your recommendation with that.

[Nat]

I wanted to recommend a podcast episode I really enjoyed: linky

It's an interview with Cat Yronwode, the owner of quite a few websites including Lucky Mojo. If you're at all interested in Hoodoo, I think it's worth a listen. She's very insightful and knowledgeable.

Also, I just got to listen to Arwen's latest Tarotscope and it was great as usual.

[Bit]

Hi Nat! How are you this week?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have a couple books to recommend. A friend lent them to me and I've been enjoying the inspiration!

Witch Crafts: 101 Projects for Creative Pagans, and The Crafty Witch: 101 Ideas for Every Occasion, both by Willow Polson. The projects range from beginner to advanced-intermediate crafter and cover a wide range of materials, from simple embroideries to constructed fabric crafts, painting pre-made wooden items to carving your own wooden items, stringing simple beads to peyote stitching an amulet bag, working copper tooling foil to making wire jewelry. Working with yarn, naturecrafts, paper and glass are also included.

What I like the best is seeing craft item after craft item with a Pagan theme. So often I look at craft books and have to stretch to see the projects as Pagan, and certainly when shopping (especially at the holidays) the "Paganest" things I can find are just nature-themed... it's just plain flat NICE to find over 200 projects which are specifically meant to support us on our paths.

[Soft*Silver]

I have a question for the pagan group. Do you think, as a serious life long ancestorial based pagan, that you could couple with someone who is a devout xtian? Clearly a genuine xtian.

A friend of mine is about to do this and I think she has lost her mind. I have a very tarnished view of xtians and while i have nothing against the religion, nor Jesus, I DO have things against the individuals and the groups within this religion that use it to hurt people.

Like abortion issues. She is so pro choice and her intended is so pro life. She reads cards and her intended feels its a potential evil. Prophesy is a no no. She is a solitary and her intended is very much active in hir church.

both are good people from what I can see. I know my friend is and this new person seems to be.

Not that its my business but until now, I never thought of religion being a factor in a relationship...but...

thoughts?

[Nat]

Hi Bit I'm good. The book sounds like fun.

softness - I think it depends on what kind of Christian the person is. If the person is a "judge not lest ye be judged" type, it could work out. I think it would be a little tough but I think people work stuff like that out often enough. I was married to a Christian and I was an Atheist at the time - it was never the issue I was afraid it would be. I haven't tried the Pagan / Christian combo.

[waxnrope]

Hey Softness,

I'm a Christian who believes that people have the right to believe in whatever they chose, or not. With the proviso that these beliefs, or non beliefs, do no harm to others. I also had been in a relationship with a non- practicing Jew, who was an atheist. I did/do not believe in prosecuting. However, her contempt for religion was such that it drove a wedge between us. I seldom discussed my pov, nor invited her to the church. She was capable of asking for what she wanted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, first of all, it probably isn't our business what piles our friends step in, unless we are asked. Having said this, it FEELS like an unworkable situation. Believe it or not, there are Christians who support a woman's right to chose, and believe in same sex marriage, etc. Many of your friend's so called "secular" beliefs are core values, IMO, and seem so very incompatible with her new partner. I suppose one can give up that piece of herself, but ... Then again, as the old adage goes, "miracles do happen." Just an opinion.

[Soft*Silver]

thanks...and what I decided is I dont need to step into her pile...so I am backing away....

miracles happen...I just want her to be happy...

[lipstixgal]

So are Pagans Christians too??

[waxnrope]

BTW, sorry if I seem to be an interloper, I don't mean to be such. I read this thread often, and hope that you do not mind my comment.

[Soft*Silver]

in my opinion, catholics are pagan christians. They took all our holidays and rewrapped them in the new religions so the villagers would follow them. I am a hybrid of sorts...

And I welcome any faith to come to the pagan thread. I dont mind sharing my spirituality and I did ask for feedback and Wax offered.

[2myladyblue]

Hey everybody!

I think the pagan/christian convo can be an interesting one as long as everyone can keep an open mind & come to the table with a historical/anthropological sort of view as opposed to a dogmatic one.

I was once lucky enough to participate in a book study of highly & widely educated people (it was a fairly academic book). I think it was called The Historical Mary. The author discussed christian mythology in the context of what is now known of the relevant places/time/cultures. He also referred to pagans & christians as belonging to "sister" religions/beliefs. To be honest, without the room full of people from such widely varied philosophical backgrounds, I wouldn't have stuck with it as long as I did & I probably didn't get as much out of it as people with more knowledge of christianity, but it was an interesting viewpoint.

The whole topic kinda reminds me about the convo I had with my mother once about Jesus being Jewish (not christian!) & not exactly the white man with blue eyes that she pictured him to be. It didn't go over very well....devout baptist that she is <shrug>.

[Bit]

Awww Lady Blue, so sorry about the deleted post!

Wax, you are of course welcome here! Everyone is.

lipstix, no, Pagans are not normally Christians. In order to be Christian one has to accept Jesus as God--the only god--and Pagans almost always either believe that Jesus is not God, or else accept him as only one of many gods.

That doesn't mean, however, that someone who is Christian cannot be a witch, because being a witch has two different definitions. One is "to be a follower of the religion, Wicca," and the other is "to work magic through natural, spiritual, or psychic means." The second kind of witch can easily also be a Christian.

softness, if your friend is strong in her path, she is likely to come in for a lot of tension in the new relationship. Of course, there is always the possibility that the charms of the new love more than make up for that... and there is also the possibility that your friend has subconsciously chosen her new love as much *for* the Christianity as for anything, and will convert. It does happen that people's paths lead them into some surprising life decisions! It might be that this is a time in her life when she needs to walk an easier path than solitary Paganism, one that offers much community support and few hassles.

I think interfaith marriages in general are tricky. People who are open-minded and willing to put some effort into understanding each other's paths and faiths are likely to have a MUCH easier time of it than those who have chosen partners who are more rigid in their interpretations.

It was difficult for me to be in an interfaith marriage even though my partner WAS open-minded, understanding, and supportive. It was also difficult for me to be relationships where we were both nominally Pagan but my partner had rigid ideas about the only right way to be Pagan, or was full of ridicule for my Paganism. I'm really grateful that even though Gryph and I don't walk the same Pagan path, we share similar enough beliefs and practices that we have no tension.

Most important of all, we share enough respect for each other that even when our practices differ significantly, we work together to find common ground. Maybe that's what it all comes down to: respect for each other.

[Nat]

It is however quite a bonus to be partnered with a person with whom you can share at least some of your practice.

There was actually an enjoyable podcast from new world witchery regarding interfaith relationships -

http://newworldwitchery.wordpress.co...relationships/

[Nat]

Anybody doing anything this year for Halloween / Samhain / Day(s) of the Dead / All Soul's Day?

I will definitely be doing something to honor friends and family who have passed over. I can't this year but I would love to do a dumb supper some year.

[Bit]

{{{{{{{{{{{{Nat}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Hi hon!

My plans are for Halloween and Samhain both. Our neighborhood association always has a huge Halloween party in the park, and Gryph and I are part of that.

This year our local Pagan group is having a Samhain party on the Friday before, and I'm really looking forward to it! I don't know if it will include any actual ritual but I'm okay with it either way.

One of the things I always do--obsessively, lol--is play A Soalin' by Peter Paul and Mary. This performance actually mentions Trick or Treating and relates it to the souling tradition. I don't mind the Christmas verse at the end because I sing this song for the whole entire season and sometimes--if I'm not sick of it yet, lol--all the way to Valentine's Day.



Lorraine Washburn also has a stunning version of A Soalin'. She ties it to Autumn with falling leaves.



Sting ties it to Christmas. This youtube includes pictures of the Swedish countryside and is just gorgeous.



It is impossible for me to be still listening to this song!! Doesn't matter how much I hurt, this song has me dancing. What better way to bring in Samhain?

[Bit]

Oh my gosh, look what I found!!! Links galore on this page, as well as the lyrics to the youtube below.
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=516025050

[Bit]

It's that transitioning time of year again. The fruits and vegetables are changing; squash comes into season, melons go out of season, apples and pears replace berries, sweet potatoes replace tomatoes. The leaves have started turning on the Virginia creeper along my back fence and my neighbors' trees are starting to show soft yellows and oranges. Music comes up from the depths of my soul, channeled through childhood memories and recent discoveries alike. The Gardener in me simmers down, and the Baker wakes up: tis Autumn time.

In my yard, the barren heat of the Summer drought has ended. The dandelions and plantains are green and growing, leaves tender, succulent. The violets which barely survived the summer are strengthening. Ragweed is blooming enthusiastically. Who knew it was such a mimic? The sassafrass-mimicking giant ragweed is gone now... but the "pigweed" has just shown itself to also be a ragweed and must come out as well. The beggars' ticks have gone to seed, all sticky with tiny hairs, long seeds barbed like harpoons. I pull them whenever I find them and the yard is free of them for the winter, but they'll be back again come spring, just like the poison ivy. The grass is frantically blooming and setting seed. Vines and trees all over the neighborhood have blazed forth with red berries. The Autumn Leaf Show has not truly begun yet, but it's coming... it is coming. The world beneath the surface growth is slowing down, taking a breath; tree roots are preparing for the long sleep. Earth is awake and content, just a little drowsy around the edges as sleep time comes closer.

Samhain is just around the corner. It seems to be coming unusually fast this year, but I know tis only because Summer held on through what should have been the first month of Autumn. Only two weeks now, and we will be in the U.S. Holiday Season: Samhain/Halloween, Thanksgiving, Solstice/Yule/Christmas, New Year's, Valentine's Day. Tis the inner Baker's dream season, time to set butter-and-flour magic into motion, time to create breads and cakes, muffins and cookies, brownies and gingerbreads. Tis time to stock the larder; grocery store sales on the staples of a Baker's kitchen are just around the corner. Time to slow roast squashes and root vegetables, time to create stews and roasts, time to cook to my heart's content.

I find myself feeling connected to generation upon generation of cooks and bakers. An image persists in my heart's eye, a cook in a huge stone kitchen, feeding a small army's worth of children and adults all through the winter, secure in the knowledge her larder is full. How many hundreds of years does this image go back, its cauldrons and kettles and bake ovens steaming? It lives in me like an archetype and I am happy to be inspired through the long Autumn and Winter months by the Cook's happiness, by her need to feed the multitude of those she cares for, by her great satisfaction in practicing the arts of Kitchen Alchemy.

The Gardener, though, has not entirely let go. Autumn is a slow time but still a growing time, and this year the Gardener in me is determined to save some of these plants and bring them inside. It means finding a way to keep cats and dogs out of the containers, finding space for them all, obtaining lights to keep them growing and happy. The bell and banana peppers, the mint, the geraniums will all winter over nicely if protected from freezing. Tis time to think about starting herbs for wintering over, as well, and choosing a place within the house for a garden area, which leads to thoughts of preparing the house for the coming Winter, sealing the windows and doors against drafts, checking the furnace over, moving the furniture to take best advantage of heat vents--and back to plants we come, for those which must go dormant will need to be in a room which has no heat vent, and those which will continue growing will need to be in warm rooms.

The Singer in my soul has taken note of the direction of my thoughts, these changes, preparations, anticipations, transitions: chants and carols come bubbling to the surface, invoking the falling Autumn leaves, the Soul Cake traditions, the remains of Pagan music hidden in holiday songs. "A Soalin'" winds through my heart and soul like a thread weaving the traditions together, half-remembered childhood folk music favorites bound into recreated Medieval custom, "God Rest Ye Merry" trailing through "Soul Cake" on bright ribbons of brass and love. Red leaves fall through the newer "Autumn Time" chant, and the Beloved Dead speak through the Souling Song. The Singer does not care if the message fits her tradition or not, for the old music is Pagan to its bones and the spirit of Autumn reaches even through others' words. She sings, and cries for the magnifence of the gift resurrecting itself down through all the generations, and sings again--and the Horned God, the Green Man hear: the songs are once again Pagan in her mouth.

Life is full and overflowing in this most beautiful and magical season of change. Bright Blessings for the deep roots of Love to us all,
Cath

Soul cake recipes:
http://www99.epinions.com/content_4439384196 Montrose Family Tradition, 5th generation, gingerbread
http://www.food.com/recipe/soul-cakes-143070 cookies (source not specified), spicy but not gingerbread

Autumn music:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnbD3QLU5o4&feature=related"]YouTube - Peter Paul and Mary, A Soalin[/nomedia] Peter Paul and Mary, A Soalin
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI637NIdP88&feature=related"]YouTube - NEAL WOODALL A Soulin'[/nomedia] Neal Woodall, A Soulin' (A Soalin)
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL4zpBjSTt0"]YouTube - A-Soalin' - Loraine Washburn a Peter Paul and Mary Cover song[/nomedia] Lorraine Washburn, A Soalin
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH2AjW1_h1s&feature=related"]YouTube - A 'Soalin'[/nomedia] (BYU?) Choral Christmas Version, A Soalin--just beautiful, medley with A Wassailing and God Rest Ye Merry
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07tu3e-otkU&feature=fvsr"]YouTube - Sting, Soul Cake.[/nomedia] Sting, Soul Cake--photos from Gotland, Sweden--utterly gorgeous and IMPOSSIBLE to sit through without dancing
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoJvo3_xm9s"]YouTube - Libana- Autumn Time[/nomedia] Libana, Autumn Time
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j35dvmdse9k"]YouTube - Halloween Music - "Souling Song - Samhain Version" - Kristen Lawrence[/nomedia] Kristen Lawrence, Souling Song, Samhain version
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=21280497&b logId=516025050 Kristen's lyrics