Were you adopted in a closed adoption?

[christie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I get what you are saying about the support group. I went to one for PTSD back in the 80's and I remember sitting there wondering how some of the people let things get that bad...that sometimes you do have to pick up and walk into the fire and deal with your every day life, no matter what your fears are. I made some of the other members angry becasue I looked put together and had a job, no matter what was inside my head.

I do wonder if I talked to someone who gave her child away that I am not related to could make me understand how giving away a person seemed like the best plan. Cynthia tells me how things are in a small town, that I don't understand the pressure, that people lose business if their kid has an illegitimate child, that the child is marked for life and fo forth and all that makes me think is how much people SUCK.

I think I do undetstand in a way, growing up in the nest of the Southern Baptist with my parents as missionaries, always on stage....how much pressure there could be. But what makes the difference between a young mother who keeps her kid and one who gives her kid away?

What makes the difference between someone who goes ahead and uses birth control and one who doesn't. Yes, I get that it's easy for me to say that since I sleep with women.

Jen -

I totally hear what you are saying in regard to the objectivity of an uninvolved third party with a similar experience. If my birth mother was more open, I would have us all meet for lunch or something; alas, in the 16 years I have known her, we have had ONE conversation about her giving me up. One.

Most of my information has come from my sister. Apparently, it was a decision that was made FOR her as she was 17.

In my resolution process, I always remembered a couple of things that I think are relevant even to your situation.

1970 was a different time (the year I was born). Choices for women in regard to their bodies and decisions were very limited. Even more so in the 60's when you were born. Educational opportunities were very limited. Most women who attended college were majoring in BM degrees - Before Marriage. Abortion wasn't legal until 1973 so access to the backalley abortions was not just expensive, it required a great amount of strength in overcoming the fears.

Birth control options were even more limited. The modern birth control pill wasn't introduced until 1960 and even then, most physicians wouldn't prescribe it unless the woman's husband agreed. If a husband said no, she had no choice. My motherinlaw's physician wanted to perform a hysterectomy for her after my brotherinlaw was born in the late 60's for her health. Jess's father would not give his "permission" and she was left with no choice but to have her health compromised.

Women weren't nearly as empowered as we are today. We have endless opportunities for us, even if its still that we work harder for less money and hope we dont land in a place with a glass ceiling. We have proven that we are independent, intelligent, singularly sensational entities without being in the "protective mantle of males." We have choices.

My maternal grandfather was a deacon in a southern baptist church. He was also a prominent businessman in Memphis. The shame of his daughter being pregnant out of wedlock was just not acceptable. She was sent to live with my great-aunt in Florida. Aunt Mary could not have children and begged and pleaded with B to give me to her. B was so very distraught she called her father every day to please let her come home. He finally relented and brought her back to Memphis and placed her in the Baptist Unwed Mothers Home.

What she endured there must have been unimaginable. To this day, she will drive 30 mins out of the way to even avoid driving down the same street as the Home. She has never spoken of her experience there; but she doesn't have to - its apparent enough to me.

Being forced to give me up certainly qualifies her in my mind as a PTSD candidate. It was so traumatic for her, she literally could not remember my birthdate - she knew it was one of three days.

She hasn't ever really dealt with her own issues surrounding my adoption. She probably never will. My only wish is that she has peace about it and knows that I hold no ill will towards her.

Most of you know that I have a 16 yr old son. When I found myself an "unwed mother" at 22 (that in itself is another thread on "issues" unto itself! LOL) I was faced with my choices... I could abort... I could give the baby up for adoption or I could keep him and make it work. I had options - options I feel that a lot of birth mothers never have. I made the decision I could best live with and never looked back.

Today, Bratboy's favorite game is to see just how quickly he can annoy the hell out of me with, "Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom.Mom.Mom.Mom," all the while tapping me on the arm... I think he times it.

Would he have been better off with a two parent home of lovely heterosexual parents who didn't have to work 60hr weeks when he was an infant just to keep him in diapers and formula? Maybe. I would like to think that I have given him as good, if not a better life than that imaginary couple could have. I dunno... but I do know that I wouldn't nearly be the person I am today.

I like to think that my birth mother made the decision she could best live with - given that she really didnt have a decision in it, I like to give her that power in my head... and to think that if she had been of my generation, she would have had the empowerment to believe she could have made a life for me.

Just my take on what it might have been like to try and be in their shoes.

Christie

[Dean Thoreau]

My grandaughter and I are the only birth children in the family. My wife, and all of our children are adopted.
I met several of my children's biological parents prior to my adoption of my children. My children were not the secret love children of famous actors and actresses, nor are they the missing heirs of the Kings and Queens. My children's birth parents were like every other birth parent in the entire world. Birth parents that had to make some very difficult choices.
Whether you were placed for adoption at birth or the age of 15; whether you were placed for adoption due to.................... or ..................... Several things ocurred:

1. You the birth child did not do anything wrong.
2. Your birth mother chose to give you life.
3. Your birth parents loved you so much they gave you up with the hope and dream that you would have a loving forever family. Whether they did so by signing a piece of paper, by court removal or by walking away or all of the above they made that choice not out of hate, or selfishness, or because you were to troublesome or because they didnt love you. They made that choice (spoken or unspoken) because they did love you so much that deep down in side they knew they could not properly care for themselves much less a child or another child. This decision is the most difficult decision a person faces in their entire life and it is one that no matter what is done, is second guessed for a lifetime.

Birth parents that you meet in adulthood may or may not ever tell you of the reasons because when the words are spoken 20 years later they sound kind of lame. A birth mother looks at you and says I couldnt take care of myself,,how could i care for an infant? and an adoptive childs inner feelings are not understanding but rather.....wtf....you are here now....obviously you survived...
What is not looked at is.....had the birth mother not have made the choice she did,,,there is a high possibility that neither of you would have survived.

Every person that has been placed for adoption is there for the same reason, your birth parents at that time were not capable of caring for themselves much less for an infant, a child. And they loved you enough that either by their consent or their actions you were placed with the hopes of a better environment for you to be nurtured and loved.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by bigbutchmistie

Apocalipstic my adopted parents are Fundamental Independent Baptist Preachers LOL I spent summers as a teen with missionaries in Mexico

Wow, I totally get the irony that you parents were preachers and missionaries, yet they shipped you out when things got rough. There was so mucg hypocrisy in my home growing up too. Hey, at least we got to travel, right .

Originally Posted by christie0918

Jen -

I totally hear what you are saying in regard to the objectivity of an uninvolved third party with a similar experience. If my birth mother was more open, I would have us all meet for lunch or something; alas, in the 16 years I have known her, we have had ONE conversation about her giving me up. One.

Most of my information has come from my sister. Apparently, it was a decision that was made FOR her as she was 17.

In my resolution process, I always remembered a couple of things that I think are relevant even to your situation.

1970 was a different time (the year I was born). Choices for women in regard to their bodies and decisions were very limited. Even more so in the 60's when you were born. Educational opportunities were very limited. Most women who attended college were majoring in BM degrees - Before Marriage. Abortion wasn't legal until 1973 so access to the backalley abortions was not just expensive, it required a great amount of strength in overcoming the fears.

Birth control options were even more limited. The modern birth control pill wasn't introduced until 1960 and even then, most physicians wouldn't prescribe it unless the woman's husband agreed. If a husband said no, she had no choice. My motherinlaw's physician wanted to perform a hysterectomy for her after my brotherinlaw was born in the late 60's for her health. Jess's father would not give his "permission" and she was left with no choice but to have her health compromised.

Women weren't nearly as empowered as we are today. We have endless opportunities for us, even if its still that we work harder for less money and hope we dont land in a place with a glass ceiling. We have proven that we are independent, intelligent, singularly sensational entities without being in the "protective mantle of males." We have choices.

My maternal grandfather was a deacon in a southern baptist church. He was also a prominent businessman in Memphis. The shame of his daughter being pregnant out of wedlock was just not acceptable. She was sent to live with my great-aunt in Florida. Aunt Mary could not have children and begged and pleaded with B to give me to her. B was so very distraught she called her father every day to please let her come home. He finally relented and brought her back to Memphis and placed her in the Baptist Unwed Mothers Home.

What she endured there must have been unimaginable. To this day, she will drive 30 mins out of the way to even avoid driving down the same street as the Home. She has never spoken of her experience there; but she doesn't have to - its apparent enough to me.

Being forced to give me up certainly qualifies her in my mind as a PTSD candidate. It was so traumatic for her, she literally could not remember my birthdate - she knew it was one of three days.

She hasn't ever really dealt with her own issues surrounding my adoption. She probably never will. My only wish is that she has peace about it and knows that I hold no ill will towards her.

Most of you know that I have a 16 yr old son. When I found myself an "unwed mother" at 22 (that in itself is another thread on "issues" unto itself! LOL) I was faced with my choices... I could abort... I could give the baby up for adoption or I could keep him and make it work. I had options - options I feel that a lot of birth mothers never have. I made the decision I could best live with and never looked back.

Today, Bratboy's favorite game is to see just how quickly he can annoy the hell out of me with, "Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom.Mom.Mom.Mom," all the while tapping me on the arm... I think he times it.

Would he have been better off with a two parent home of lovely heterosexual parents who didn't have to work 60hr weeks when he was an infant just to keep him in diapers and formula? Maybe. I would like to think that I have given him as good, if not a better life than that imaginary couple could have. I dunno... but I do know that I wouldn't nearly be the person I am today.

I like to think that my birth mother made the decision she could best live with - given that she really didnt have a decision in it, I like to give her that power in my head... and to think that if she had been of my generation, she would have had the empowerment to believe she could have made a life for me.

Just my take on what it might have been like to try and be in their shoes.

Christie

Christie, thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me. You seem so centered about it all.

I am so glad and proud of you for keeping your son!

I know her parents put pressure on her to give me up and also sent her to a home in Oklahoma City to have me. She said it was run by Methodist "nuns"? (I guess nun-like women?) I know it had to be terrible.

I know I am holding anger like a little kid over this, I just have never even really thought to deal with it, I always had more pressing issues (like my insane Father). Now that he is gone, maybe I can get all this behind me.

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

My grandaughter and I are the only birth children in the family. My wife, and all of our children are adopted.
I met several of my children's biological parents prior to my adoption of my children. My children were not the secret love children of famous actors and actresses, nor are they the missing heirs of the Kings and Queens. My children's birth parents were like every other birth parent in the entire world. Birth parents that had to make some very difficult choices.
Whether you were placed for adoption at birth or the age of 15; whether you were placed for adoption due to.................... or ..................... Several things ocurred:

1. You the birth child did not do anything wrong.
2. Your birth mother chose to give you life.
3. Your birth parents loved you so much they gave you up with the hope and dream that you would have a loving forever family. Whether they did so by signing a piece of paper, by court removal or by walking away or all of the above they made that choice not out of hate, or selfishness, or because you were to troublesome or because they didnt love you. They made that choice (spoken or unspoken) because they did love you so much that deep down in side they knew they could not properly care for themselves much less a child or another child. This decision is the most difficult decision a person faces in their entire life and it is one that no matter what is done, is second guessed for a lifetime.

Birth parents that you meet in adulthood may or may not ever tell you of the reasons because when the words are spoken 20 years later they sound kind of lame. A birth mother looks at you and says I couldnt take care of myself,,how could i care for an infant? and an adoptive childs inner feelings are not understanding but rather.....wtf....you are here now....obviously you survived...
What is not looked at is.....had the birth mother not have made the choice she did,,,there is a high possibility that neither of you would have survived.

Every person that has been placed for adoption is there for the same reason, your birth parents at that time were not capable of caring for themselves much less for an infant, a child. And they loved you enough that either by their consent or their actions you were placed with the hopes of a better environment for you to be nurtured and loved.

I get what you are saying and I so admire you for what you are doing!

It is hard for me to see that they gave me away out of love, becasue of the incredibly abusive situation I ended up in, but I am working on it and hearing from people like you and Christie really is helping.

Thank you both!

[bigbutchmistie]

YES soooooo much hypocrisy And yes sooooo glad for the travels and experiences I had. Its part of why I am who I am today. I've seen things few people in U.S. Ever do... As I'm sure so have you

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by bigbutchmistie

YES soooooo much hypocrisy And yes sooooo glad for the travels and experiences I had. Its part of why I am who I am today. I've seen things few people in U.S. Ever do... As I'm sure so have you

Very true!

I am guessing you speak English and Spanish fluently?

There are good parts, but just always this feeling of not belonging anywhere. Always on the outside, always the new kid.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Honestly, to me, giving away your kids because you can't take care of them properly IS NOT love of any form, it's called being stupid and selfish. I am grateful I am here but at times no due to the amount of anger that boils in my bones about the reasons why so many birthparents do what they do.

It kinda goes back to the post where I said some people need to be sterilized and castrated, both my birth parents should have had this happen, than maybe myself and my siblings wouldn't be so fucked up like we are. I hold alot of resentment and animosity towards my birth mother and some to my father, if you don't wanna be a parent don't be a fucktard, wear a rubber or use some form of protection.

IMO closed adoptions have done more harm than good.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

Honestly, to me, giving away your kids because you can't take care of them properly IS NOT love of any form, it's called being stupid and selfish. I am grateful I am here but at times no due to the amount of anger that boils in my bones about the reasons why so many birthparents do what they do.

It kinda goes back to the post where I said some people need to be sterilized and castrated, both my birth parents should have had this happen, than maybe myself and my siblings wouldn't be so fucked up like we are. I hold alot of resentment and animosity towards my birth mother and some to my father, if you don't wanna be a parent don't be a fucktard, wear a rubber or use some form of protection.

IMO closed adoptions have done more harm than good.

I think a more open scenario where the child knows where they come from and has some sense of heritage is best.

Those of us from closed adoptions have no clue what our past is, no sense of clan, or familial ties.

I get that in 1963 things were bad for women, but when I finally did meet her she told me her parents said she had to give me up if she wanted to go to the prom. They she married someone else shortly after and had 2 kids. She has a master's degree. In my case it was a convenience thing, not a survival thing.

I do know that still the rhetoric is that to say that parents gave us up out of love and should be happy and thankful and beholden for being adopted out of misery. I have heard it all my life.

I think I am angry at society in general for believing that children are disposable and will forget and can be given away when they are at their most defenceless to who knows what. Having sex is a natural thing, and I wish I lived in a world where children are treasured and not looked down on for being illegitimate. Its just insane to me that this is how society works.

[bigbutchmistie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Very true!

I am guessing you speak English and Spanish fluently?

There are good parts, but just always this feeling of not belonging anywhere. Always on the outside, always the new kid.

Actually I dont speak Spanish fluently. I understand some. Just dont speak it. We had to let the missionaries talk to the people. Weird. I know.

As far as having kids. Ya know, I never have wanted to have them. And in dating it sooo hard to find a girly girl who doesnt want them either. Oh well. I know there has still gotta be a single femme out there who doesnt want them