Butch Femme Planet  

Go Back   Butch Femme Planet > POLITICS, CULTURE, NEWS, MEDIA > Politics And Law

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2010, 10:28 AM   #1
JustJo
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
pushy broad
Preferred Pronoun?:
she
Relationship Status:
Follow your heart; it knows things your mind cannot explain.
 
1 Highscore

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast corner
Posts: 5,633
Thanks: 24,417
Thanked 25,406 Times in 4,660 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857
JustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Hey...I was traveling and in and out of airports all night Friday and early Saturday, and kept hearing snippets of some crazy stuff about a push to prevent illegal immigrants from having "anchor babies" in the U.S. Since this would require a constitutional amendment, and is also just basically ridiculous, I'm alarmed....but I didn't hear enough to have the whole story.

Was anyone following this? Have more info? Know who's behind this insanity?
__________________
I'm not tall enough to ride emotional roller coasters
JustJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 01:57 PM   #2
MsDemeanor
Member

How Do You Identify?:
queer stone femme
Relationship Status:
Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams
 
MsDemeanor's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 703
Thanks: 165
Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 2698180
MsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJo View Post
Hey...I was traveling and in and out of airports all night Friday and early Saturday, and kept hearing snippets of some crazy stuff about a push to prevent illegal immigrants from having "anchor babies" in the U.S. Since this would require a constitutional amendment, and is also just basically ridiculous, I'm alarmed....but I didn't hear enough to have the whole story.

Was anyone following this? Have more info? Know who's behind this insanity?
Oh yeah, I know about this. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, Section 1, first sentence, states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Conservatives love the Constitution, except for the parts that they want to change (and they want to change a lot). In this case, they want to repeal this part of the Constitution so that being born on American soil does not grant citizenship.
__________________
MsDemeanor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MsDemeanor For This Useful Post:
Old 11-21-2010, 03:26 PM   #3
AtLast
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Woman
Preferred Pronoun?:
HER - SHE
Relationship Status:
Relating
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird
Posts: 5,408
Thanks: 11,826
Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857
AtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST Reputation
Member Photo Albums
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsDemeanor View Post
Oh yeah, I know about this. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, Section 1, first sentence, states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Conservatives love the Constitution, except for the parts that they want to change (and they want to change a lot). In this case, they want to repeal this part of the Constitution so that being born on American soil does not grant citizenship.
Oh yeah, conservatives want to change a lot in the Constitution! A lot of them think it just fine to interject the 2nd Amendment as a means to eliminate politicians they don't like either.

And we now have Rand Paul really wanting to go at the Constitution.
AtLast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 03:30 PM   #4
Nat
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
bigender (DID System)
Preferred Pronoun?:
he/him or alter-specific
Relationship Status:
Unavailable
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central TX
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 11,047
Thanked 13,971 Times in 2,591 Posts
Rep Power: 21474855
Nat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsDemeanor View Post
Oh yeah, I know about this. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, Section 1, first sentence, states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Conservatives love the Constitution, except for the parts that they want to change (and they want to change a lot). In this case, they want to repeal this part of the Constitution so that being born on American soil does not grant citizenship.
It would also be a handy blow against the gays if they repealed the 14th amendment. The equal protection clause and the due process clause were both cited in the Loving vs Virginia decision which ended laws against interracial marriage.

A bit from the court's decision back then:

Quote:
The Equal Protection Clause requires the consideration of whether the classifications drawn by any statute constitute an arbitrary and invidious discrimination. The clear and central purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to eliminate all official state sources of invidious racial discrimination in the States.

...

There is patently no legitimate overriding purpose independent of invidious racial discrimination which justifies this classification. The fact that Virginia prohibits only interracial marriages involving white persons demonstrates that the racial classifications must stand on their own justification, as measures designed to maintain White Supremacy. We have consistently denied the constitutionality of measures which restrict the rights of citizens on account of race. There can be no doubt that restricting the freedom to marry solely because of racial classifications violates the central meaning of the Equal Protection Clause.
Quote:
These statutes also deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.

These convictions must be reversed.
__________________
I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl.

- Bjork

What is to give light must endure burning.

-Viktor Frankl
Nat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 03:32 PM   #5
JustJo
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
pushy broad
Preferred Pronoun?:
she
Relationship Status:
Follow your heart; it knows things your mind cannot explain.
 
1 Highscore

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast corner
Posts: 5,633
Thanks: 24,417
Thanked 25,406 Times in 4,660 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857
JustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsDemeanor View Post
Oh yeah, I know about this. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, Section 1, first sentence, states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Conservatives love the Constitution, except for the parts that they want to change (and they want to change a lot). In this case, they want to repeal this part of the Constitution so that being born on American soil does not grant citizenship.
Ugh....thanks....makes me wonder what they think the "effective date" should be. After all, an awful lot of us could trace our families back to somebody who hid on the ship or didn't quite have their papers in order. Does that mean we're all getting booted out too? And, if so, where exactly do we belong? Craziness. If you're born here, you're an American in my book....I don't care if your mother was 2 feet on the other side of the line for a minute and a half before you arrived.
__________________
I'm not tall enough to ride emotional roller coasters
JustJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 03:57 PM   #6
MsDemeanor
Member

How Do You Identify?:
queer stone femme
Relationship Status:
Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams
 
MsDemeanor's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 703
Thanks: 165
Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 2698180
MsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST Reputation
Default

It's actually kind of interesting. There are two widely recognized methods of determining citizenship - jus soli (right of the soil) and jus sanquinis (right of the blood). In the Americas, jus soli seems to be prevalent, which makes sense in a large land mass surrounded by oceans that contains folks who predominantly came from somewhere else. European countries tend to use jus sanquinis, which, to me, makes more sense the goal of preserving national heritage in a region with a lot of little countries with free movement between them. If your parents are Spanish, you're Spanish, even if you're born in France. There's also lex sanquinis, which allows citizenship based on other blood ties. For example, if my great grandparents had my grandmother before they left Ireland, rather than after they arrived in the States, I could get an Irish passport (stomps foot), and the Israeli Law of Return grants the right to citizenship to all Jews.
__________________
MsDemeanor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MsDemeanor For This Useful Post:
Old 11-21-2010, 04:02 PM   #7
JustJo
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
pushy broad
Preferred Pronoun?:
she
Relationship Status:
Follow your heart; it knows things your mind cannot explain.
 
1 Highscore

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast corner
Posts: 5,633
Thanks: 24,417
Thanked 25,406 Times in 4,660 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857
JustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST ReputationJustJo Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsDemeanor View Post
It's actually kind of interesting. There are two widely recognized methods of determining citizenship - jus soli (right of the soil) and jus sanquinis (right of the blood). In the Americas, jus soli seems to be prevalent. European countries tend to use jus sanquinis, which, to me, makes more sense the goal of preserving national heritage in a region with a lot of little countries with free movement between them. If your parents are Spanish, you're Spanish, even if you're born in France. There's also lex sanquinis, which allows citizenship based on other blood ties. For example, if my great grandparents had my grandmother before they left Ireland, rather than after they arrived in the States, I could get an Irish passport (stomps foot), and the Israeli Law of Return grants the right to citizenship to all Jews.
Right...and those make sense to me too. I guess I like taking the broadest possible definition. If your parents are Irish citizens, and you're born here...then I guess I'd like the choice to be yours, and I have no issue with granting dual citizenship or whatever until that choice is made by the people involved.

The interesting part, to me, of the 14th amendment is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." My understanding is that was included because diplomats (for example) might have a child while residing in the US, but that child was not technically born American, because they (the diplomats and their offspring) were not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.

Take that argument to the children of illegal immigrants (which is what these wingnuts are trying to prevent)...are they actually going to argue that the children of illegal immigrants aren't subject to U.S. jurisdiction in the way that diplomats aren't? It's hogwash.
__________________
I'm not tall enough to ride emotional roller coasters
JustJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 04:16 PM   #8
Glenn
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Dear ol butch bones.
Preferred Pronoun?:
Old G
Relationship Status:
Too old to play.
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: :rolleyes:
Posts: 1,547
Thanks: 3,601
Thanked 3,729 Times in 1,095 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
Glenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST ReputationGlenn Has the BEST Reputation
Default Repulicans vote to block unemployment checks for 800,000

WTH are all these folks going to do? AFLCIO.org2010/11/18
__________________
1 Kings 19:12
Glenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2010, 04:21 PM   #9
MsDemeanor
Member

How Do You Identify?:
queer stone femme
Relationship Status:
Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams
 
MsDemeanor's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 703
Thanks: 165
Thanked 1,852 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 2698180
MsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST ReputationMsDemeanor Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa View Post
WTH are all these folks going to do? AFLCIO.org2010/11/18
The repugs are gonna give all their rich buddies a tax break and the rich buddies will use the tax break to create jobs for all these folks.
__________________
MsDemeanor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MsDemeanor For This Useful Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:14 AM.


ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018