Top 10 Lesbian Myths

[BullDog]

Myth: butches and femmes are not lesbians.

Reality: Many of us are both.

[Nat]

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Nat

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd.

Yes, I agree. I am a butch with a cock, no dildo-centrism here. However I also find the notion that butch femme sex to be cock-centric to be quite inaccurate as well as offensive. Also femmes have cocks as well as butches. People (whatever their sexuality or gender identity may be) can enjoy sex without a penis, cock, dildo etc. being "centric." I also don't see butch femme sexuality (whatever that is supposed to be) to be centered around butch.

[Rope]

Hmm, not sure why you're offended. I certainly did not mean to imply that butch/femme cock centric sex was the ONLY way we know how to entertain ourselves. My main distinction was the difference between butch cock and lesbian dildos (many of the lesbians I know are quite offended that SOME butches think of it as their butch cock and not a toy).

[BullDog]

First of all, many butches and femmes are also lesbians, so the reasoning doesn't make any sense (less bed death for butch-femme vs lesbian).

Second of all, butches aren't the only ones with cocks.

Third, butch femme sexuality isn't cock-centric or centered around butches.

Oh and the thought of lesbian sex (lesbians who don't view themselves or their partners as having a cock) as dildo-centric just makes me laugh, lol.

Even if there supposedly was some distinction between seeing sex centered around a cock vs. a dildo, how would that make a difference in less bed death anyway? One is considered a toy and one is not???? That makes for less bed death?

[Nat]

I am not partnered with a butch and I am *very happy* with what happens in my bed.

I have in the past enjoyed the "company" of butches and bois (lesbian-identified and not, stone and not), cismen, transmen, androgynous lesbians, feminine lesbians and one straight girl. Of the butches, some were cock-centric, some didn't even want to consider wearing one, some wanted to be slapped, some wanted to be called Daddy. Some were mostly hands-on, some were mostly on their backs, etc. It seemed to me there was no rule about how a butch f*cks any more than there's a rule about how anybody else does.

I have zero complaints regarding the "butch cock" but (to me) it's not a magic wand and you don't have to be butch to have an immersive, visceral experience wearing one. And for those butches who don't identify with or enjoy the experience, I don't think that subtracts from their inherent butchness one iota.

I really haven't noticed a huge correlation between people's identities and what they do in bed, with the exception of the term "stone" which still varies a lot from person to person.

PS. I'm not offended - I just don't want have one very specific myth of butch-femme sex - or lesbian sex - to be perpetuated unchecked. There are lesbians who take their cocks very seriously (like me) and there are lesbians who consider them toys and there are lesbians who consider them unnecessary, and there are lesbians who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are butches who take their cocks very seriously, there are butches who consider them toys and there are butches who consider them unnecessary and there are butches who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are femmes who take their cocks very seriously (again, like me!), there are femmes who consider them toys, there are femmes who consider them unnecessary and there are femmes who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea.

I'm betting what you said though Rope - has been true for you and your experience. I don't think you meant anything offensive in your post.

The first butch I "dated" said very negative things about "lesbians" in bed, and she tended to look for straight girls because she had unstated boundaries about how she wanted to be touched and looking for straight feminine women was her solution. I was just coming to understand my sexuality when I met her, and after our first (and only) encounter, she told me I was definitely a "lesbian" and then she told all her friends I was "too butch" for her. However, she never stated her boundaries, she seemed to be quite happy during the encounter. Eh, the experience was painful all around, and I think it would have been less so if people didn't assume that these identities equate to certain acts in the bedroom.

[asphaltcowboi]

ok so i aked a group of my hetro biker friends what the top ten toughts they had of lesbians..
overweight
mean
wear flannel shirts
like group sex
wear steel toe boots
short hair
hate men
want to be men
have great BBQs
beer drinker

lol dont kill the messenger!! this was kinda a homework project and came from hetro mens mouths! and they also think were all cool!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Nat

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd.

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

[LipstickLola]

I appreciate the gravity of this subject, but can I just say, there was no death in my bed this weekend

Oh, and the point is? two lesbians, mutual gratification, no issue over who did what to whom or when and how and...........and it was real sex, without a real label I guess?

[Julie]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.

[pajama]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I just wanted to comment to this a little. I completely understand what ALH originally meant when s/he (sorry forgot your pronoun, no disrespect intended) commented about libido changes. First with regards to medication...antidepresents are hell. Not only do they numb the sadness they numb all feelings including desire. Second, menopause without hormone replacement killed my libido. Anybody that knows me, is amazed to find out that before I corrected my pre-menopausal hormones I would go MONTHS without masturbating and over a year without sex. I know...unheard of.

So while I hope to have the libido I have now until the day I die, I understand that things happen to change that. Sometimes it's 'bed death', sometimes medications, sometimes emotions, sometimes hormones. But regretably it does happen.

And as to the butch/femme/butch-cock hetero relation....all I have to say is thank gods it IS NOT like hetero because no cis-male's easily deflated cock could ever keep up with me. (Sorry if I offended, that's really my only take on it because I don't pretend to understand butch cock.)

A

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.

I understand why and how this sets you off- I was not really intending what I think you believe.

For the record- I enjoy it all and am a lesbian of the b-F variety. I get tired, however, of how we often put things in narrow contexts sexually. I do personally get tired of the word cock and it brings some very heteronormative things up for me. My main problem was with touting butch cock- or any cock- with lesbian bed death. I hate the phrase lesbian bed death too- it is belittling and I think (especially in most of this conversation), goes to the never ending comparison between lesbian and straight sex. Ie., all you need is a good lay- meaning a man with an attached penis plunged into your vagina.

No, my use of accessory items (and it doesn't stop with dildoes- they are not the only “toys“ around!), has nothing to do with cocks! Never has, never will. Anything I nickname, in fact has a clit as part of it. It is just important to me to own my being a woman and honoring the wonder of female sexual anatomy. Maybe because of the era I am from in which women were referred to as such things as frigid, non-sexual, not even supposed to be sexual beings, bad if they did, too good, if they didn't, shouldn't play sports because we might hurt our female body parts, kept from certain professions and jobs... on and on- I am just sensitive about this stuff. But, honestly, I my "toys" are of the feminine because of how I have integrated gender-bending in my life. I choose to "bend" to the female/woman side of the equation because there has been so much taken from me in the past for being a woman- and a masculine woman. I also am tired of the lesbian-phobia I see so much of on B-F sites (it is much less so on the Planet, however). It bothers and hurts me as a woman and a butch.


I absolutely apologize to you or anyone else if I offended you. I really was not intending this. I do have strong feelings about the female as well as lesbian sex. I know I can react differently to some of this stuff, but, to not be who I am as a butch woman and how I relate to sexuality as a person just isn’t something I can over look. But, I will try to use different wording if I return to the Planet in the future.

I have no personal negative judgement of how everyone else sees this- or what terms they want to use. I especially think there could be some sensitive things that trans folks could have around this.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

...

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts....

I don't want to pick on you, ALH. Your posts are usually so affirming, but this jumped out at me, too. The first two sentences of that paragraph remind me of a conversation I had with a lesbian acquaintance who was having trouble understanding why butches wanted to dress "like men". I took a deep breath and explained that butch women are no more trying to imitate men than men are trying to imitate butches. Women dress the way they feel comfortable, as do men, so why would a person assume that butch women are the ones doing the imitating?

When it comes to butch cock, why would butch/femme sex in which butch cock plays a starring roll be viewed as imitative of heterosexual sex? I'm a lesbian and that's how I have sex, so it's lesbian sex to me. Straight people can imitate us if they choose. That doesn't bother me a bit.

[Nat]

There is plenty of straight/heterosexual sex that goes beyond the recipe above as well.

Which for some reason reminds me of this song:

(warning - this is in no way work/family-appropriate. don't click on it if you're expecting it to be).

[Nat]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

When it comes to butch cock, why would butch/femme sex in which butch cock plays a starring roll be viewed as imitative of heterosexual sex? I'm a lesbian and that's how I have sex, so it's lesbian sex to me. Straight people can imitate us if they choose. That doesn't bother me a bit.

I think defining "butch-femme sex" as fundamentally different from "lesbian sex" due to the focus on "butch cock" is extremely problematic because it creates a false dividing line between lesbians and butch-femme folks and it stereotypes sexual behavior over the entire spectrum into a very narrow definition.

If that's how you have sex and you're a lesbian, then it's lesbian sex. But to say "X is how butch-femme people have sex," and/or, "Y is how lesbians have sex," is to define a whole lot of behaviors as one single behavior - as though that one single behavior is the defining factor for all of us.

Defining butch-femme sex as centered mainly on the "butch cock" feels pretty sexist/heterosexist (even though heterosexual sex is various just like any other spectrum of sexual behavior), because it's forcing a masculine-centric, phallocentric definition on a broad spectrum of behavior among those who are designated female.

Also, the idea that non-butch-femme lesbian sex is somehow defined by the lack of said cock also feels pretty sexist. It goes back to the idea of defining women by our lack of phallus rather than by the anatomy we actually have (a la Freud's penis envy).

Aside from its sexist/heterosexist overtones, it implies a "no-true-scotsman"-like scenario where "true" or "real" butch-femme folks would not also be lesbians or would not fuck without a "butch cock" involved. It's the kind of thing that puts butch and femme on a sliding scale and discounts/invalidates the identities and sex lives of butches and femmes who prefer other kinds of sex.

(Just one example: Butch bottoms exist and they aren't any less butch for it. When you define butch-femme sex as involving a butch cock, it does feel like an attempt to invalidate butch bottoms and femme tops and switches).

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

I love your exchange in this entire thread,

I think that as we get older sex is different and not as much of a priority. Throughout your life time you evolve emotionally and spiritually. Your priorities change. I have experimented with many things but the one thing present is that I am lesbian. I don't have a choice with this. I am free spirited and open. I was always attracted to masculine lesbians. When I discovered BF I was thrilled there were others like me. I've dated all types of people but have concluded, at this stage of my life I am lesbian- whatever the fuck that means. I don't know about lesbian death bed but I can see where two mature women reach a place of comfort and where intimacy doesn't have to include an orgasm. I can take or leave dildos or whatever kind of name you wanna give it BUT the vibrator stays! (wink) For me it all boils down to finding a connection and feeling a deep beautiful intimate spiritual connection. After everything I'd done, seen, been and know I am guessing this will be a lesbian butch woman. If its not then thats ok too.

[BullDog]

That if you are a stone butch or stone femme you are not a lesbian. That just gets the big from me. Not all stone butches and stone femmes are lesbians, but there are plenty that are. There is no conflict.

On a related but more general topic many people, including many butches and femmes, seem to think lesbian sex is narrow in scope when in fact lesbians have sex in as many ways, shapes and forms as any type of person. Kinky, vanilla, stone etc. Just because there usually is not a male involved (although at times there are) doesn't make lesbian sex or sexuality limited or narrow or leave a bunch of things out or make us less sexually fulfilled, adventurous, etc.