Difference between masculine and male identified?

[Darth Denkay]

I appreciate all those who have posted but am not sure I clearly stated my question. Here, let me try again.

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Thoughts?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

I appreciate all those who have posted but am not sure I clearly stated my question. Here, let me try again.

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Thoughts?

To answer your question, yes. What to do about it to change others minds, shrugs, maybe we can't. Maybe we just have to live as we are, and not worry how others perceive us. It really doesn't matter at the end of the day, I still look in the mirror and see me, in all my glory.

[Darth Denkay]

You're right Corkey. It doesn't bother me in the sense that it makes me question myself - I know who I am - not male or female identified - but I just find it frustrating to once again facing an implied binary where I don't fit in one of the boxes. In so many ways around here we are careful not to construct binaries that it just surprises me, that's all.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

You're right Corkey. It doesn't bother me in the sense that it makes me question myself - I know who I am - not male or female identified - but I just find it frustrating to once again facing an implied binary where I don't fit in one of the boxes. In so many ways around here we are careful not to construct binaries that it just surprises me, that's all.

I agree with you my friend, so many times I said the same thing, but unless I put it in my profile, folks assumed a whole lot. I'm not particularly happy about having to choose, I'm Human and that should be enough, thing is it isn't. Don't know why and frankly I am tired of fighting about how I express my gender, is it really worth it in the end? For me no it isn't. I'm Me take it or leave it.

[Jett]

Kind of like having to choose from the two boxes all over again, when neither quite fit eh?

Go figure...

Peace,
Metro

[Heart]

What is it that says that a woman/female can't be masculine? Is it the same thing that says feminine can't be genderqueer?

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Heart

What is it that says that a woman/female can't be masculine? Is it the same thing that says feminine can't be genderqueer?

I think that uninformed thinking says a woman/female cannot be masculine. I don't believe this myself. I don't think genderqueer restricts feminine but honestly, I have not given that particular notion much thought. I am sure I will think about it now.

[Darth Denkay]

Heart,

I very much agree with what Greyson says - masculinity isn't owned by males or male-identified, and folks can be masculine and female identified. Female masculinity is a wonderfully fabulous thing. If I am using female as a sex marker and not a gender marker, then I am a masculine female in all its glory. That being said, I know that many of my butch sisters have a strong affinity for masculinity, and it is theirs as much as anyone else's.

To go even further, I think even feminine folks can incorporate masculinity into their lives as well. Masculinity is free for all!

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Yes, it seems at times that the binary is still the standard, the standard to live and measure our identity. For many years I never thought I was "gender queer." I was a butch. No one ever asked me if I were male or female identified. It felt as though many believed that to be butch was by default a immitation of male. I reject all of this.

Through my own inquiry, thinking and living in my skin, I now know that masculinity is not restricted to cisgendered men or other masculine entities.

I think gender can be primarily a construct. However, I did not realize for most of my life, that I could construct and define my own gender. I identify as a Transmasculine Butch because for me, I cannot label myself a mistake. I am evolving. I was born into a female body because it is a foundational part of who I am. I also choose to move further into a more masculine presentation via surgery and taking T.

I am not content that in the realm of legal recognition I have only two options, male or female. I have the history, hormones, thoughts, experiences of both. Which in my mind makes me "other."

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

I appreciate all those who have posted but am not sure I clearly stated my question. Here, let me try again.

Do others feel that a binary is upheld here in that butches are expected to be male or female identified? It seems that is implied in threads regularly and I find that not creating space for some folks.

Thoughts?

Yes, I do believe that there is an expectation that butches be female-identified or male identified.

Personally, I am not a "female identifed butch" OR a "male identified butch". Subsequently, I identify as a TG Butch. I also do not regard myself as a woman, nor do I see myself as a man. (However, I do regard my sex as female, as that is what I am biologically).

Except for a recent thread on the "dash site" (I love that saying by the way...don't know who came up with it) where the request was made for only female-id'ed butches to post, I have never felt like I didn't have a "place" or didn't fit.

It was the first time that I ever considered or was concerned that butch threads would start to get divided into male id'ed and female id'ed threads. It concerned me for the community (more division) and then I also thought....hey, where the hell will I post? lol

[chefhottie25]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Yes, I do believe that there is an expectation that butches be female-identified or male identified.

Personally, I am not a "female identifed butch" OR a "male identified butch". Subsequently, I identify as a TG Butch. I also do not regard myself as a woman, nor do I see myself as a man. (However, I do regard my sex as female, as that is what I am biologically).

Except for a recent thread on the "dash site" (I love that saying by the way...don't know who came up with it) where the request was made for only female-id'ed butches to post, I have never felt like I didn't have a "place" or didn't fit.

It was the first time that I ever considered or was concerned that butch threads would start to get divided into male id'ed and female id'ed threads. It concerned me for the community (more division) and then I also thought....hey, where the hell will I post? lol

I agree with what you say about not regarding yourself as a woman or a man. I identify as a boi. I am called hy and hym. However, I have no desire to transition...because I am not a man. I also don't identify as a butch of any sort. I feel uncomfortable posting in butch threads. I am not really sure what all this means in terms of my identity and gender. Whatever the confusion...it works for me. I am comfortable and happy being a boi.