Stone Butches

Legendryder · 01-03-2011, 08:13 AM

In reading this thread, I can only put in my personal perspective on the topic. For myself, I DO id as Stone Butch. For myself, it is less about how much self-awareness I have as to how I walk through life. It is a bit difficult to explain for me for some reason. The best example for me is the type of woman I am attracted to. Very femme. Very Southern, ie demure, respectful, old school ect. Not that I like door mats. If you know anything about Southern women that is the last thing you could possibly describe them as. Quietly fierce is more like it. What is odd for my situation is I felt I was overlooked as a masculine woman because I am quite thin, small boned and was described when I was young as pretty. I didn't feel I was taken seriously in the B/F world because of these things. I spent most of my youth being hyper aggressive, drunk and angry. I liken it to attempting to "feel my size". I didn't feel like a "real" Butch, because I did not think I looked like one. So, I fought against my own notions and sterotypes of what a Butch should look like, act like and just be. This is the main reason I took so far, nine years of abtainance from the dating pool. I was just flailing about and unfit for human consumption. Something I have learned is I have to define me. For me. I know there are some that will rail about being put in a box. For me it is knowing who I am. For me. I had to become selfish to be selfless I suppose. It has taken me a long time to get some comfort inside myself. I will never be one of those big Butch women that I always thought I should be. Hell, I am 5' 8" tall and weigh 130 pounds. I am a stick. *shrug* So what? I still look like me. A little older yeah. But, inside, I am a big masculine Butch. But, finally, I do not have to be a total tool to prove it. That in and of its self is such a relief. I was really tired of getting my ass kicked. The main point is I found myself. How I feel. How I define me. I simply am a Stone Butch because that is who I am.

Mister Bent · 01-03-2011, 08:32 AM

Bit, I prefer to remain succinct, so I'll say that I'm not the only one who read your post as I did, I stand by what I said, and you can continue this argument as long as you wish, but I will reiterate that you are, in fact, being taken to task for statements that you did make. Back peddling and attempting to make me appear incapable of comprehending your very straight-forward, simple sentences lacks credibility and is rather insulting. If I were to wish to "school" you, I would point out that "yes" is not actually a sentence, as it fails to meet the requirements of proper sentence structure. I stand by my phrasing.

It's not my concern if you view my being honest about the humanity of stone butches and transmen (of which I am one, you are NOT) as "derailing and discourages other people from posting" (yet oddly, other people are posting). I view your statements as borderline irresponsible, and I get to say that. Your history on these sorts of topics is well noted and you might wish to consider the relative weight of judgment in your post. So, feel free to continue to paint me as the "meanie," maybe some white knight will ride up and rescue you. I do not wish to engage with you further on this issue, as it is only so much beating of a dead horse and is the thing that will discourage others from posting.

Bit · 01-03-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendryder

........What is odd for my situation is I felt I was overlooked as a masculine woman because I am quite thin, small boned and was described when I was young as pretty. I didn't feel I was taken seriously in the B/F world because of these things.

That had to be really difficult; I've known a lot of Butches who described going through the same kind of experience for various reasons, usually related to their looks. It's a heartbreaker for me because to me, what counts is inside; to me, looks are pretty much irrelevant.

I'm glad you've come to a better place and that you've found yourself as a Stone Butch. I can relate to the relief of that, because it was such a relief when I found myself as a Stonefemme. Like you, I see it not as being put in a box, but as self-definition.

waxnrope · 01-03-2011, 10:01 AM

These postings distress me. While I care for Mr. Bent and Bit, they are unaware of the esteem which I, and likely others, hold them. Bent's penetrating comments and quick observations. Bits compassion and understanding and support of butches.

Perhaps my discomfort arises from my own stuff, my state of mind because of grief. I don't know, but I want you both to know that this disagreement disturbs me, and I wish that you would work it out between you. I do really care for you both. You are each important to me and, IMO, to this community, in your own way.

Legendryder · 01-03-2011, 10:05 AM

I see it not so much as an argument, but a lively discussion. Which is good. As long as the gloves stay on and all parties are respectful, go for it. Keep it flame free and others may just learn something they did not know. My .02.

waxnrope · 01-03-2011, 10:10 AM

I've not said a thing about an argument, Legend.
The tone. Bent's decision to NOT engage further... a mixed bag of things, not all relative to the word word argue, which is WHY I chose to not use the word.

Legendryder · 01-03-2011, 10:15 AM

My word choice. I am sorry to have put it that way. Lively discussion perhaps? lol All I know is I have my opinion, you have yours, they have thiers. And it is a good thing. As long as the flame is kept away. It is all a good thing.

Mister Bent · 01-03-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxnrope

These postings distress me. While I care for Mr. Bent and Bit, they are unaware of the esteem which I, and likely others, hold them. Bent's penetrating comments and quick observations. Bits compassion and understanding and support of butches.

Perhaps my discomfort arises from my own stuff, my state of mind because of grief. I don't know, but I want you both to know that this disagreement disturbs me, and I wish that you would work it out between you. I do really care for you both. You are each important to me and, IMO, to this community, in your own way.

Wax, I also appreciate very much what you said here. I will continue to post, should something inspire me to comment (as sassy's post did) and have filed the preceding under "Agree to Disagree" and am done commenting, as I see no viable resolution.

I appreciate your spirit of inclusiveness and your willingness to be honest about your feelings here.

Legendryder · 01-03-2011, 10:27 AM

I too agree with what was said. I have learned a lot from just sitting back and reading things posted. I suck at wording things sometimes, too plain spoken I suppose. I do so appreciate the opportunity to see other's points of view. It gives me the opportunity to step back and think about a different perception. That is so good for me. There are many people here that are much smarter about things than I am and having the opportunity to learn from them is such a blessing.

asphaltcowboi · 01-03-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendryder

I too agree with what was said. I have learned a lot from just sitting back and reading things posted. I suck at wording things sometimes, too plain spoken I suppose. I do so appreciate the opportunity to see other's points of view. It gives me the opportunity to step back and think about a different perception. That is so good for me. There are many people here that are much smarter about things than I am and having the opportunity to learn from them is such a blessing.

i also suck at wording things and alot of what i post is taken out of context often i chose not to post because i know it will be torn apart and just cause ill feelings.i learn alot from just reading also. but i have to disagree on the smarter part i think it more of having walked a diffrent walk then smarter or not.
i do always try to remember not to judge a book by its cover. it whats inside that makes it a best seller!

Legendryder · 01-03-2011, 11:00 AM

True. Not to make it sound like I think I am stupid. But, I am uneducated about a great many things. But, that is becomming a thing of the past as well. I have almost finished my AA in Business, loving that btw. But, I am also taking the time to learn about my own experiences and how I have been shaped by them. Good or bad. Introspective, retrospective, whatever. It has been a freeing experience especially in my inner view. While I still have fits of anger, lash out sometimes and express my "toolness", I do see marked improvement. Nothing at all wrong with that.

Nightshade · 01-03-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody

i also suck at wording things and alot of what i post is taken out of context often i chose not to post because i know it will be torn apart and just cause ill feelings.

I often feel the same way. Or fear that it will be so. Especially if I'm speaking from my heart or about something I'm passionate about. There are lots of times when I realize after the fact that I could have said something better, more succinctly, but I have to hope that the readers will know my intent.

chrisbutch · 02-25-2011, 05:22 AM

Can i ask some advice here?? When is appropriate to tell some that you are stone?? early in the relationship or wait until you get to know them better??

01-03-2011, 08:32 AM	#2
Mister Bent Senior Member How Do You Identify?: . Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: . Posts: 2,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,151 Thanked 5,824 Times in 1,722 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Bit, I prefer to remain succinct, so I'll say that I'm not the only one who read your post as I did, I stand by what I said, and you can continue this argument as long as you wish, but I will reiterate that you are, in fact, being taken to task for statements that you did make. Back peddling and attempting to make me appear incapable of comprehending your very straight-forward, simple sentences lacks credibility and is rather insulting. If I were to wish to "school" you, I would point out that "yes" is not actually a sentence, as it fails to meet the requirements of proper sentence structure. I stand by my phrasing. It's not my concern if you view my being honest about the humanity of stone butches and transmen (of which I am one, you are NOT) as "derailing and discourages other people from posting" (yet oddly, other people are posting). I view your statements as borderline irresponsible, and I get to say that. Your history on these sorts of topics is well noted and you might wish to consider the relative weight of judgment in your post. So, feel free to continue to paint me as the "meanie," maybe some white knight will ride up and rescue you. I do not wish to engage with you further on this issue, as it is only so much beating of a dead horse and is the thing that will discourage others from posting. __________________ Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken Last edited by Mister Bent; 01-03-2011 at 08:40 AM.

01-03-2011, 10:01 AM	#4
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	These postings distress me. While I care for Mr. Bent and Bit, they are unaware of the esteem which I, and likely others, hold them. Bent's penetrating comments and quick observations. Bits compassion and understanding and support of butches. Perhaps my discomfort arises from my own stuff, my state of mind because of grief. I don't know, but I want you both to know that this disagreement disturbs me, and I wish that you would work it out between you. I do really care for you both. You are each important to me and, IMO, to this community, in your own way. Last edited by waxnrope; 01-03-2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason: giving up on autocorrect :(

02-25-2011, 05:22 AM	#13
chrisbutch Junior Member How Do You Identify?: stone butch Relationship Status: single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: earth Posts: 74 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 152 Thanked 94 Times in 40 Posts Rep Power: 936603	Can i ask some advice here?? When is appropriate to tell some that you are stone?? early in the relationship or wait until you get to know them better?? __________________ Chris

01-03-2011, 08:13 AM	#1
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270132	In reading this thread, I can only put in my personal perspective on the topic. For myself, I DO id as Stone Butch. For myself, it is less about how much self-awareness I have as to how I walk through life. It is a bit difficult to explain for me for some reason. The best example for me is the type of woman I am attracted to. Very femme. Very Southern, ie demure, respectful, old school ect. Not that I like door mats. If you know anything about Southern women that is the last thing you could possibly describe them as. Quietly fierce is more like it. What is odd for my situation is I felt I was overlooked as a masculine woman because I am quite thin, small boned and was described when I was young as pretty. I didn't feel I was taken seriously in the B/F world because of these things. I spent most of my youth being hyper aggressive, drunk and angry. I liken it to attempting to "feel my size". I didn't feel like a "real" Butch, because I did not think I looked like one. So, I fought against my own notions and sterotypes of what a Butch should look like, act like and just be. This is the main reason I took so far, nine years of abtainance from the dating pool. I was just flailing about and unfit for human consumption. Something I have learned is I have to define me. For me. I know there are some that will rail about being put in a box. For me it is knowing who I am. For me. I had to become selfish to be selfless I suppose. It has taken me a long time to get some comfort inside myself. I will never be one of those big Butch women that I always thought I should be. Hell, I am 5' 8" tall and weigh 130 pounds. I am a stick. shrug So what? I still look like me. A little older yeah. But, inside, I am a big masculine Butch. But, finally, I do not have to be a total tool to prove it. That in and of its self is such a relief. I was really tired of getting my ass kicked. The main point is I found myself. How I feel. How I define me. I simply am a Stone Butch because that is who I am.

01-03-2011, 10:05 AM	#5
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270132	I see it not so much as an argument, but a lively discussion. Which is good. As long as the gloves stay on and all parties are respectful, go for it. Keep it flame free and others may just learn something they did not know. My .02.

01-03-2011, 10:10 AM	#6
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	I've not said a thing about an argument, Legend. The tone. Bent's decision to NOT engage further... a mixed bag of things, not all relative to the word word argue, which is WHY I chose to not use the word.

01-03-2011, 10:15 AM	#7
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270132	My word choice. I am sorry to have put it that way. Lively discussion perhaps? lol All I know is I have my opinion, you have yours, they have thiers. And it is a good thing. As long as the flame is kept away. It is all a good thing.

01-03-2011, 10:27 AM	#9
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270132	I too agree with what was said. I have learned a lot from just sitting back and reading things posted. I suck at wording things sometimes, too plain spoken I suppose. I do so appreciate the opportunity to see other's points of view. It gives me the opportunity to step back and think about a different perception. That is so good for me. There are many people here that are much smarter about things than I am and having the opportunity to learn from them is such a blessing.

01-03-2011, 11:00 AM	#11
Legendryder Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Queen City, MO Posts: 420 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14 Thanked 969 Times in 261 Posts Rep Power: 7270132	True. Not to make it sound like I think I am stupid. But, I am uneducated about a great many things. But, that is becomming a thing of the past as well. I have almost finished my AA in Business, loving that btw. But, I am also taking the time to learn about my own experiences and how I have been shaped by them. Good or bad. Introspective, retrospective, whatever. It has been a freeing experience especially in my inner view. While I still have fits of anger, lash out sometimes and express my "toolness", I do see marked improvement. Nothing at all wrong with that.