Trans News/ Issues

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

My husband did not need to have his birth certificate changed in order to obtain the corrected passport. He has all documents (SS, DL, Passport etc.) with his correct gender.

Some states won`t change a birth certificate at all (I think there are three of these).

Wow, that's great. I wonder why I was required to send mine or show mine? I guess too that the passport people don't care what the BC says as long as you have the letter. The SS office wanted my BC though and a letter. I wonder if they would have still changed my SS if I did not have my BC changed? I think that is part of the problem, the rules seem to change based on where you live. in one SS office they might turn you down and in another they will just take the letter.

Rufus

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Wow, that's great. I wonder why I was required to send mine or show mine? I think that is part of the problem, the rules seem to change based on where you live. I guess too that the passport people don't care what the BC says as long as you have the letter.

Rufus

The birth certificate requirement for a passport is standard.......so.....you're right in that it does not matter what is marked on your bc as long as you have an acceptable letter from your physician.

I already had a passport (with F on it), so I didn't even have to re-send my birth certificate.....just the new application, the old passport, and the doctor's letter.

They kept the doctor's letter, btw, as part of my file.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Thinker

The birth certificate requirement for a passport is standard.......so.....you're right in that it does not matter what is marked on your bc as long as you have an acceptable letter from your physician.

I already had a passport (with F on it), so I didn't even have to re-send my birth certificate.....just the new application, the old passport, and the doctor's letter.

They kept the doctor's letter, btw, as part of my file.

Yes, that is the procedure my husband followed. Just sent in the old passport, application, doc letter. No BC.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Wow, that's great. I wonder why I was required to send mine or show mine? I think that is part of the problem, the rules seem to change based on where you live.

Rufus

ETA: sorry, i just read that this statement was discussion SS cards and not passports. Maybe you were required to show a BC bécause you were never issued a passport previouslyÉ (ugh question marks!).


For anyone interested, here are some sites with more info on passports. I have to say that changing the passport (and SS) was relatively simple. We got really lucky with DL but that is quite the story.



http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/06/142922.htm

http://transequality.org/PDFs/passports_2010.pdf

http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/passport.html

ETA:

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

But passports are federally issued as opposed to a state issued (birth certificates are state issued which is why they have, unfortunately for some, different laws surrounding it), so the procedures are the same for all USA citizens regardless of where one lives in your country. No changed BC (or DL) is necessary to be submitted to have one`s passport changed.


Even if one has never been issued a passport, one doesn`t need to have an amended birth certificate or DL. They can provide their original documents and have a physician certification stating that the citizen has or is undergoing treatment for gender transition.


For anyone interested, here are some sites with more info. I have to say that changing the passport was relatively simple.



http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/06/142922.htm

http://transequality.org/PDFs/passports_2010.pdf

http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/passport.html

I already had a passport. I was told on the phone by the passport office to send in the birth certificate. I'm not sure why I was told that if it isn't needed. I just sent in what I was told to send in. So ultimately I did not even have to send in the BC even though I was instructed too.

At the SS office I was initially refused a gender marker change even with M on my BC. I was sent away while the office worker consulted with his supervisor. The next day I got a call saying they would change it. So.... not really sure why there was an initial refusal/policy check. I read online on various sites that the SS can b etricky because the policy is worded vaguely and can sometimes be up to the office and how they are reading it. Again, this is just my experience of the whole process and the different forms and paperwork. For me, changing the BC was the easiest. It was the first thing I changed because I thought it would make it easier for me to get everything else changed. It did and it didn't.

I do think it is easier to get the DL changed if you have the SS changed first. I have read reports and have been told first hand of one situation where the DL was not changed because the SS had not been changed due to the cross checking. So I think to be on the safe side for anyone just going into this it is best to get the SS changed before going into the DL office. But who knows? I'm sure there are some who have had their DL changed before the SS.

As I said, it sometimes seems like it depends on who you talk to. I was expressly told to send in my BC even though I was amending a passport, while you were not. I think the agencies struggle with the wording in the policies. This policy had just changed when I applied for my passport, so maybe passport offices are more clear on the paperwork by now.

Rufus

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Wow, that's great. I wonder why I was required to send mine or show mine? I guess too that the passport people don't care what the BC says as long as you have the letter. The SS office wanted my BC though and a letter. I wonder if they would have still changed my SS if I did not have my BC changed? I think that is part of the problem, the rules seem to change based on where you live. in one SS office they might turn you down and in another they will just take the letter.

Rufus

Sorry missed that one underlined statement--yes, exactly--as long as you have the letter and can provide proof of citizenship (in the form of passport, BC or DL).

As far as SS--did they want an amended BC for you to get a changed SS document--(sorry question marks are messed up).

Everything but the BC (for hubby) has been relatively easy. Unfortunately, it is the BC we need the most.

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Sorry missed that one underlined statement--yes, exactly--as long as you have the letter and can provide proof of citizenship (in the form of passport, BC or DL).

As far as SS--did they want an amended BC for you to get a changed SS document--(sorry question marks are messed up).

Everything but the BC (for hubby) has been relatively easy. Unfortunately, it is the BC we need the most.

Now that I think about it I'm not sure. My BC was fully changed (KY changes and does not amend). I wrote more about this above. They were more interested in the letter than the BC. I think they were comparing the wording in the letter with the policy wording. I was turned away with just the BC. So I wonder now if the SS could be changed with just a letter and no BC?

What state was your hubby born in? I won the state lottery as far as BC is concerned because Kentucky makes it pretty easy. I called first, they were great, friendly and helpful and they fully changed the BC with a letter from a surgeon. So I figured, get that first, then it should make it easier to get the rest.

Rufus

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Now that I think about it I'm not sure. My BC was fully changed (KY changes and does not amend). I wrote more about this above. They were more interested in the letter than the BC. I think they were comparing the wording in the letter with the policy wording. I was turned away with just the BC. So I wonder now if the SS could be changed with just a letter and no BC?

What state was your hubby born in? I won the state lottery as far as BC is concerned because Kentucky makes it pretty easy. I called first, they were great, friendly and helpful and they fully changed the BC with a letter from a surgeon. So I figured, get that first, then it should make it easier to get the rest.

Rufus

Interesting.

He was born in a Louisiana in a parish where it seems (to us) that this has never been done (we think this bécause no one has the same answer on how to accomplish the change from court house to vital records).

They do change and not amend the BC, but people suggested lawyers due to the paperwork etc. It is not a simple application with a letter--it is basically a lawsuit suing the county for a new BC. Instead of paying thousands for a a lawyer (the lawyers we contacted did not even seem that knowledgable and were hugely exp), we drew up the docs ourselves but, of course, we were given conflicting information of who and where to send and it is quite the mess...need a redo. It has been a bit of a nightmare and are taking a break from it at this point.

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Interesting.

He was born in a Louisiana in a parish where it seems (to us) that this has never been done (we think this bécause no one has the same answer on how to accomplish the change from court house to vital records).

They do change and not amend the BC, but people suggested lawyers due to the paperwork etc. It is not a simple application with a letter--it is basically a lawsuit suing the county for a new BC. Instead of paying thousands for a a lawyer (the lawyers we contacted did not even seem that knowledgable and were hugely exp), we drew up the docs ourselves but, of course, we were given conflicting information of who and where to send and it is quite the mess...need a redo. It has been a bit of a nightmare and are taking a break from it at this point.

It does sound very complicated. I understand the need to step back from it for a while. I'm so sorry. I find it grossly unfair that it is easy for some due to accident of birth and very difficult if not impossible for others.

I have learned a lot from you though and that all other docs can be changed without a BC change. I got my BC first partly because it was easy and partly because I thought it would pave the way for changes to other docs. It is nice to know that the BC is not a requirement for the other docs. The whole process is time consuming and frustrating and I received conflicting information on a couple of occasions. I always made a point of checking the offices policies and web pages first, calling second and then applying or going to the office last. Even doing this I had to resend different or more documents because what I was told on the phone was different once the actual application was made.

Hang in there.

Rufus

[Greyson]

Thanks to all of you for posting about your document changes. For me, I still need to change my passport and birth certificate. I had no problems in the SS Office but I went to the office in Berkeley. The young woman helping me was very pleasant and wished me all the best. The CDL, a young butchy looking woman assisted me and I think she may have been family.

I took a break from the document maze because I do know that the State of my birth offers only an amended bc. I am offended by this because I am an American citizen adult that has done this entire process with many years of thought, research and soul searching behind me before making the decision to move forward in this.

I have wondered why on a few occassions what would this country be like if they took so much time regulating people before they were allowed to reproduce? That is entirely another topic but yet another example of how our laws and policy support heterosexualism as the holy grail.

Stepping down from my soapbox now. I am feeling a bit frustrated.

[Mister Bent]

Should We Introduce Children to the Concept of Transgender People?

Should we introduce children to the concept of transgender people? The answer is yes according to an article published in the December 2010 issue of the peer-reviewed Graduate Journal of Social Science.

The article by Natacha Kennedy and Mark Hellen, entitled "Transgender Children: More Than a Theoretical Challenge," was developed from a paper presented at the November 2009 conference "Transgender Studies & Theories: Building Up the Field in a Nordic Context" held at Linkoping University in Sweden.

Critics will cry that introducing all children to the concept of transgender people will cause children to "become transgender." But the authors found that schooling has little impact on gender identity development in children. In fact, children who develop a transgender identity seem to do so in spite of often unwitting but nevertheless pervasive efforts by schools to enforce gender conformity.

Read the rest of the article here.

I found this data particularly interesting when applied to my own childhood:

The authors found that roughly three-quarters of transgender people were aware of being transgender before leaving elementary school, and there was "an average delay of 7.5 years between becoming aware of one's transgender or gender variant nature, and learning any words with which to describe it." This means "many transgender children go through most, if not all, of their time in compulsory education knowing their gender identity is different from that expected of them."

Because there were no words, and no one to help me understand, I knew only how to try to fit into the box family, school, the world-at-large kept trying to cram me. I would have lived a very different life had the knowledge and resources been different.

On the strength of this finding, the authors argue:

If a school system tried to coerce any other group of individuals to become people they are not, to regard an inner core of their identities as illegitimate, and prevent them from expressing their identities freely, particularly from a very young age, it would be characterized as barbaric. ... The [resulting] internalization of self-hatred, guilt, self-doubt and low self-esteem in childhood affects transgender people throughout their lives. Any education system, or indeed society, which allows this state of affairs to continue is neither fully inclusive nor fully humane.

It's incredibly faulty logic on the part of the critics who would argue that "introducing all children to the concept of transgender people will cause children to "become transgender."' If that were so, the children of transgendered parents would themselves be transgendered.