Politically Charged Violence - Who's Responsible?

[Corkey]

This pretty much sums it up for me, and I agree with him on all his points.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/op...ef=todayspaper

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Corkey

This pretty much sums it up for me, and I agree with him on all his points.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/op...ef=todayspaper

Speaks volumes:

"The point is that there’s room in a democracy for people who ridicule and denounce those who disagree with them; there isn’t any place for eliminationist rhetoric, for suggestions that those on the other side of a debate must be removed from that debate by whatever means necessary.

And it’s the saturation of our political discourse — and especially our airwaves — with eliminationist rhetoric that lies behind the rising tide of violence."

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

Speaks volumes:

"The point is that there’s room in a democracy for people who ridicule and denounce those who disagree with them; there isn’t any place for eliminationist rhetoric, for suggestions that those on the other side of a debate must be removed from that debate by whatever means necessary.

And it’s the saturation of our political discourse — and especially our airwaves — with eliminationist rhetoric that lies behind the rising tide of violence."

Precisely. It is one thing entirely to say, for instance, that congressional Republicans and the national conservative movement, generally, have taken Machiavellian mendacity to new and artistic depths. It is quite another thing to say that liberals want to destroy America and that their every intent is to destroy America. If you say that Democrats want to tax and spend the money of hard-working (read white) Americans and give it to the undeserving (read not-white) then okay. It's not accurate, but that seems in bounds. If one is wont to say that Republicans want to engorge the coffers of the super-rich on the backs of the poor, alright. It may be simplistic, it may be inaccurate, but still within bounds.

Do I think that when Sarah Palin's star falls American political discourse will be the better for it? Yes. Do I think that when Glenn Beck's antics bring him sinking ratings American political culture will have improved incrementally? Yes. Do I think that Keith Olberman should, perhaps, go through the CBS archives and see how different his hero Edward R. Murrow comported himself while still speaking truth to power? Yes.

However, that's not wishing for there to be no conservatives or for Keith Olberman to go the way of the dodo. Whenever I am speaking with a conservative who looks at Palin and sees someone speaking to and for them, I ask how they would go about dealing with liberals and how they think America would be better off if there were no liberals. Most times, that brings them up short because I don't think a lot of conservatives realize just *how* eliminationist the rhetoric has become.

Cheers
Aj

[Gayla]

Just spent a couple of hours in the car and happened to catch one of my favorite local, liberal, commentator guys on the first part of his afternoon show. Normally he and I agree on most everything but in this situation we don't. He doesn't think that the rhetoric of the right has any influence in any way.

Not only do I disagree but I think the fact that the conservative media, Palin's camp and the many others that engage in this started making statements about the lack of connection within hours of the shooting is very telling. The Arizona candidate(can't remember his name) who had a campaign stop where he encouraged people to come shoot his assault rifle issued a statement saying they don't see a connection.

Also on the radio, replays of some of the interviews with the people who tackled the shooter. I hadn't heard that because I just been reading about this online and not watching TV. The woman who pulled the magazine out of his hand said, "I was laying there on the ground, waiting to get shot..." because the woman next to her already had been. To hear these people talk, gave a whole different perspective of this for me.

It very well could be that this is the sole doings of an unstable, pot smoking, loner who was influenced by nothing more than the ramblings in his own head. But I'm having a hard time believing that.

[Glenn]

Folks; The individual is sick yes...intellectually and socially unintelligent, but what folks are doing is precisely what the problem has been in the past with the labeling and finger pointing. I have heard this pitiful soul called a nut, loser, pot-smoker, demon worshiper, everything.. but most of all "just some nut." Many folks who are fine citizens of the world, not loners, non-users etc., become mentally ill whether our society does it, or heredity. In time, we will know more about this boi. Furthermore, I do not think he should receive the death penalty.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I'd like to know what folks think about the responsibility behind the shooting. Do you think that today's political climate is ripe for violence? Do you think that the vitriol created by the SarahPac map, certain political propaganda, etc. is a form of hate speech? Do you think that our first amendment rights mean that we get to incite violence even if it's in innuendo?

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by pajara2

Democrats say it about Republicans, Republicans about Democrats, it just depends on who's in office at the moment. Sarah Palin no more caused these deaths, than Jody Foster caused Reagan's shooting or Marilyn Manson caused the shootings at the high school, than playing Dungeons and Dragons caused whatever else. And guns don't kill people...idiots and nut-jobs wielding those guns kill people. IMHO

I think the political/religious climate is escalating, as our whole society is. We care less about each other, respect each other less, etc. So as a species, humans have become more violent. Again IMHO.

A

Pajara pretty much summed up what I was thinking when I read Medusa's question. It's a bit eerie too, since the VERY first thought in my head was 'guns don't kill people...people kill people'.

I see the disconnect between people, the humanity, more and more on a daily basis. We're isolating ourselves with our MP3 players and iPods and laptops. We are talking more on the cellphone than to our neighbors. Children are growing up with little to no discipline or rules and with a highly elevated sense of entitlement.

Our society has swung far to the other side of the pendulum now. Before, it was a hard day and we worked hard and our folks had it hard. Now, it's all about being soft and weak and self-absorbed. Over time, we've wanted our kids to have a better life, but who declared hard work part of a life that wasn't better?

I see a connection between what was and what has been avoided and where we are now. I think those spewing violent words and inciteful speech should be held accountable. I think those who fell down on the job, so to speak, along the way should be held accountable.

But, in the end, no matter what you hear or what you think or what you saw, there's that moment the second before a finger pulls the trigger back just a hair more where it's just you and your conscious and the weight of your thoughts and mental actions (because you've played the scene in your head a thousand times already) and most of us, I'd like to think, would not do it. And do it. And do it. And do it. And do it. Over and over again. The final responsbility for one's actions fall squarely on the shoulders of the one who commited them.

[Gayla]

Apparently I should have put the part about "pot smoking, loner" in quotes. That, along with "unstable" are words that the media has been using to describe the person with the gun.

That was not just something I just made up and was not meant to be any type of value judgement I'm making about people who smoke pot, spend time alone or have mental health issues.

My judgey mcjudgerson moment - the shooter's fucking insane.

I don't think that people who smoke pot, spend time alone or have mental health issues are insane, homicidal terrorists.

/disclaimer

[weatherboi]

i knew you cared!!!!!

Originally Posted by gayla

Apparently I should have put the part about "pot smoking, loner" in quotes. That, along with "unstable" are words that the media has been using to describe the person with the gun.

That was not just something I just made up and was not meant to be any type of value judgement I'm making about people who smoke pot, spend time alone or have mental health issues.

My judgey mcjudgerson moment - the shooter's fucking insane.

I don't think that people who smoke pot, spend time alone or have mental health issues are insane, homicidal terrorists.

/disclaimer

[Novelafemme]

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...23a32eaf7.html