The Graphic Novel and Comic Books

[Julien]

Hello all,
While teaching at a university in the Great Lakes area, I offered a course on the Graphic Novel and Comic Books. I know what you might be thinking, how can a course use comic books as its focus. Well it works out very well actually. I see the Graphic Novel as well as its episodic companion as a measure of social construct and a gauge to discuss how we see our world. These works of fiction, non-fiction and even its artwork (and I call it art) is very compelling in its scope. I likened this graphic medium to be a close cousin to film, which I also teach courses in. The frame by frame construction can be translated to the frame by frame filmic patterns. Within each frame tells a story in and of itself as well as in the longer piece. We can "read" the frame with the perspective of our own background and see culture in the making. So I would like to offer a dialogue on the Graphic Novel and Comic Books. What is your favorite and why. Is there an image that speaks to you? I would like to know what you see.

One of my own likes is the horror genre. I am also interested in the comic books from the Cross Gen (now defunct), Image, and Dark Horse publishers. Another curious addition to the "graphic" novel is House of Leaves which uses the words to create images and meaning, not images to create meaning. So what do you think? Want to talk?

[Julien]

Is it possible for women to be portrayed in a tasteful manner in comic books, especially in the superhero genre? Do you have a favorite female character? why?

My favorite character is from Ruse. Emma Bishop is a strong woman, intelligent and adventurous. Her comic is set in the Victorian times, she is along side a Sherlock Holmes type male character. However she is not his "Ms." Watson, a second lead. She stands on her own and fights crime on her terms. The title comes from the CrossGen publishers and is being rereleased through Marvel Comics this year.

Is there any Graphic novel or comic you would like to discuss? I'm also interested in House of Leaves if anyone has read that book.

[julieisafemme]

My only experience with graphic novels is "Maus". It communicated the horror of the Holocaust in a way I had never heard or seen before. I will share it with my daughter when she is old enough. Before reading that series I would have scoffed at this genre. Now I can see what a compelling storytelling device it is.

Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s

Is it possible for women to be portrayed in a tasteful manner in comic books, especially in the superhero genre? Do you have a favorite female character? why?

My favorite character is from Ruse. Emma Bishop is a strong woman, intelligent and adventurous. Her comic is set in the Victorian times, she is along side a Sherlock Holmes type male character. However she is not his "Ms." Watson, a second lead. She stands on her own and fights crime on her terms. The title comes from the CrossGen publishers and is being rereleased through Marvel Comics this year.

Is there any Graphic novel or comic you would like to discuss? I'm also interested in House of Leaves if anyone has read that book.

[wolfbittenpoet]

I am a fan of Liz Sherman in BRBD and Hellboy novels. But I am a Mike Mignola addict. I love graphic novels an comics. Dark Horse is my fave mainstream publisher right now. I am also a total geek for Sandman.

[Julien]

Maus is an excellent graphic novel. I've used it in my class before. I like it's use of symbolism and hard hitting content. It's use of mice to represent the Jewish people is interesting and a controversial move by the author/artist Art Spiegelman.

I entitled the course "Blood in the Gutter: This is Not Your Grandfather's Comic Book". As you may know the gutter is the seemingly empty space between the pictures.

[wolfbittenpoet]

I think Maus is the first book I did a report on in about third grade. I've read and reread it so many times. I found the whole way it was done impressive.

Comic books are the first books that I ever would read. Even with dyslexia I could work out things. Now unless if I'm tired or writing you'd never know.

Do you find simple black, white and grey art more powerful? Or color?

Is it true that the "Golden Age of Comics" is the pinnacle of the genre or truly a bygone age that allowed for further growth?

[julieisafemme]

Wow in third grade!!! I read it as a young adult before I had converted to Judaism. My child is in third grade and I think it is too sophisticated for her. We went to see Rango yesterday and she did not love it. The whole movie was full of references to Clint Eastwood westerns. It went totally over her head. I think Maus would be the same way for her. Although the impact of the cats, mice and pigs is pretty simple. I don't know. I think I'll wait a bit.

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

I think Maus is the first book I did a report on in about third grade. I've read and reread it so many times. I found the whole way it was done impressive.

Comic books are the first books that I ever would read. Even with dyslexia I could work out things. Now unless if I'm tired or writing you'd never know.

Do you find simple black, white and grey art more powerful? Or color?

Is it true that the "Golden Age of Comics" is the pinnacle of the genre or truly a bygone age that allowed for further growth?

[wolfbittenpoet]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Wow in third grade!!! I read it as a young adult before I had converted to Judaism. My child is in third grade and I think it is too sophisticated for her. We went to see Rango yesterday and she did not love it. The whole movie was full of references to Clint Eastwood westerns. It went totally over her head. I think Maus would be the same way for her. Although the impact of the cats, mice and pigs is pretty simple. I don't know. I think I'll wait a bit.

The first time I read it I did not fully comprehend everything. I understood the holocaust happened and was horrible. I understood World War 2 and it's impact but then I was in the heart of reunification period. And my grandfather had told me about concentration camps and liberating the oppressed. By the time I had reread it again in fifth grade I understood more.
But I did have my nieces read it at 4th grade or so. Yes they had questions but I felt they were ready for it.

[Nina]

I have only read one graphic novel...and, I apologize in advance, if this does not fit the discussion (I fear it does not)...still--on the odd chance

it is "Hereville How Mirka Got Her Sword" by Barry Deutsch

I admit to not ever enjoying comics...reading the bubbles while interpreting the drawings is all to much for me, so my reaction to this was the same...made all the more painful (for me) by my massive disappointment with the story itself...one I got because it was touted as a novel about an ortodox girl who wanted to fight trolls...I do know that this thread is for the graphic novel and it's form and not to discuss the content so much of the story...suffices to say that I experienced the graphics to only further upset me as it illustrated the story line...

(sorry if I was too 'off'--feel free to delete me) Z:)

[Soft*Silver]

Like WBP, I read books when I was a child that most adults wouldnt tackle ( Ann Ryan anyone?) And like him, I grasped some, but not all. I would re-read later and grasp more. Not until an adult would I get it all. But I think those early moments with the book opened consciousnesses that I already had, was born with, and would have laid dormant for years if not forever had I not with childlike innocence, caressed them to open like spring buds. What came later burst forth larger concepts that didnt need to strain.... the light had already been released.....

dont be afraid to expose goodness to children. They will mix it together and artistically make intelligence out of it....

[Julien]

Originally Posted by Nina

I have only read one graphic novel...and, I apologize in advance, if this does not fit the discussion (I fear it does not)...still--on the odd chance

it is "Hereville How Mirka Got Her Sword" by Barry Deutsch

I admit to not ever enjoying comics...reading the bubbles while interpreting the drawings is all to much for me, so my reaction to this was the same...made all the more painful (for me) by my massive disappointment with the story itself...one I got because it was touted as a novel about an ortodox girl who wanted to fight trolls...I do know that this thread is for the graphic novel and it's form and not to discuss the content so much of the story...suffices to say that I experienced the graphics to only further upset me as it illustrated the story line...

(sorry if I was too 'off'--feel free to delete me) Z

Thanks for adding your thoughts to this discussion. I don't think it is too much to discuss the content because it all (pictures, dialogue, and other media) feeds in to reading culture through comics. I know I didn't particularly like comic books when I first started reading them. It could have been the lack of story or how it was drawn. I do think that the storyline is as important as the imagery. Sometimes it takes time to learn how to "read" a comic or graphic novel. Just as it does to learn how to "read" a film. We have to look at all aspects of the work, because we can see how culture bleeds through the artwork and the words chosen. I'd say to give graphic novels another chance. There are so much to choose from.

Here is another question do graphic novels have an age limit to who buys them or reads them? I am 48 and I love them. When I lived in Milwaukee there were comic books stores. Unfortunately there are none where I live now. If you can find a store to take your time and browse in to find a series or titles you like.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

I think Maus is the first book I did a report on in about third grade. I've read and reread it so many times. I found the whole way it was done impressive.

Comic books are the first books that I ever would read. Even with dyslexia I could work out things. Now unless if I'm tired or writing you'd never know.

Do you find simple black, white and grey art more powerful? Or color?

Is it true that the "Golden Age of Comics" is the pinnacle of the genre or truly a bygone age that allowed for further growth?

The use of color vs black and white is an interesting question. For me, I believe that each medium has its strengths for conveying the message of the content. It is the same question about color film vs black and white film. While some may consider b/w "old" I see it as having a rich context to read. In terms of graphic novels and comic books. I feel the author makes a decision to what would aid in the telling of the story. It could be said that b/w or color may enhance the story in a way that the other could not. Have you ever read 30 Days of Night? Ben Templesmith's artwork compliments the story told by Steven Niles well. The edginess of the prose and the panels heighten the suspense in the episodic novel.

[wolfbittenpoet]

I have read some of 30 Days of Night and I am impressed. With that series the art more then carries the storylines. It's been a while since I've given it a major look. I'll have to hit the library for it again. I find that superheroes seem to convey themselves better in color then in black and white. Perhaps because color is a vividity of life. Whereas antiheroes are better in black in white perhaps because of depth of soul.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

I have read some of 30 Days of Night and I am impressed. With that series the art more then carries the storylines. It's been a while since I've given it a major look. I'll have to hit the library for it again. I find that superheroes seem to convey themselves better in color then in black and white. Perhaps because color is a vividity of life. Whereas antiheroes are better in black in white perhaps because of depth of soul.

hi Poet,
I like what you wrote about color vs black/white imagery. I think that color does indeed express the vividness of life. Nicely written about b/w and the depth of soul. You should go more into this, I'd like to read what you think. Wow does that sound too teacherlike? Sorry about that.

[wolfbittenpoet]

Teacherlike hmm no never. I will get more into it after a bit of thought. I have similar feelings about film. But then I was going to be an English major until I realized that most of the stuff you read is rubbish and things that are called classics are quite frankly dribble with few exception. Give me Vonnegut, Kerouac and comic books anyday.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by wolfbittenpoet

Teacherlike hmm no never. I will get more into it after a bit of thought. I have similar feelings about film. But then I was going to be an English major until I realized that most of the stuff you read is rubbish and things that are called classics are quite frankly dribble with few exception. Give me Vonnegut, Kerouac and comic books anyday.

So you were going to be an English major. My background is in Film Studies, Women's/Gender Studies, and LGBT Studies all under the umbrella term of "Modern Studies". What other graphic novel or comic book to you enjoy? Have you ever read I Am Legend by Richard Matheson, either in graphic novel form or its original novel? I didn't care for the film of the same name, it strayed too far away from the source. The graphic novel is in black/white. It was adapted by Steven Niles of 30 Days of Night fame.

[wolfbittenpoet]

I like I am Legend both the original book and the adaptation. It is a book about the soul of humanity being terrorized by the masses in many ways. I also find that in trying to preserve humanity he dehumanizes himself. I like most continuities of Xmen and Wolverine. And I am a sucker for anything Neil Gaiman.

I think going back to the black and white and color debate that color is for me live and vividness of life because in so many of the comics it is explosive.With black and white the storyline and emotions it evokes move the story on as much as the art. In a way comics are like the movie The Wizard of Oz in Kansas you are dealing with the people and in Oz you are dealing with emotional quandries made real on an exorbirant scale. What else is a superhero fight but an outward showing on emotional conflicts.

[Julien]

I think going back to the black and white and color debate that color is for me live and vividness of life because in so many of the comics it is explosive.With black and white the storyline and emotions it evokes move the story on as much as the art. In a way comics are like the movie The Wizard of Oz in Kansas you are dealing with the people and in Oz you are dealing with emotional quandries made real on an exorbirant scale. What else is a superhero fight but an outward showing on emotional conflicts.[/QUOTE]

I like your reading of a classic film. The use of b/w and then color does show the "dreamlike" quality of Dorothy's nightmare. In that I mean the explosion of the color spectrum enhances her feelings and her own understanding for each of the people in her life. The life in b/w with the dustbowl atmosphere. Dusty and use of shadows and light also show emotions such as desire and fear. I believe that the emotions are apparent in the b/w sequences, but they are not "colored" by the turmoil of the storms on her horizon, if you let me combine the elements of her situation. The color representation in film such as this expands our understanding of the b/w sequence and also gets inside Dorothy's head and how she feels about the people around her.

Why do you think that graphic novels or comic books are popular for all ages? It is curious that a fantasy such as The Wizard of Oz continues to be shown in primetime for those young and old to discover or rediscover. I think that comic books or graphic novels offer us some of the same core values that is ours to explore.

[wolfbittenpoet]

I think the popularity of comic books among different age groups is because there are so many different overtones in most of the comics. Like all literature they are very subject to interpretation and different age groups see different things. Take the Xmen comics. Older people see them as revolutionaries and fighters of social injustice. Younger people see them as outcasts going through changes society doesn't understand. Even the glbt community can look at them as people not quite understood but seeking acceptance.

[Julien]

Poet, I agree with the idea that whoever you are you "read" a comic book through your own particular lens or point of view. I can see all of the perspectives being valid in reading the X-Men comic books.

To those of you reading these posts, please feel free to comment or add on to the discussion. What comic book really impressed you, how old were you when you read it, and what is it about that comic book or graphic novel you found so compelling. Maus was brought in to the discussion a good book, but there are so many more out there.