Did the Pakistan government know Osama bin Laden was there?

[Dutch Leonard]

Originally Posted by Linus

Why would they (the Pakistani gov't) announce on TV that they knew where Osama lived if they were working with the US to get him? I'm puzzled by that whole concept..

If it wasn't out and out sympathy to his cause, then I think it was making a deal with the devil, if they let him alone, they wouldn't be targets of attacks. Once we did the dirty work, they can feign ignorance and outrage.

[rockybcn]

I believe they knew....but as all govts. its easier to turn a blind eye or deaf ear and play dumb when necessary. When your country is in economic crisis and you are being funded vast amounts of money from another country....well? They are a very close knit community and word spreads fast. They have found some of the biggest cells of terrorists reside here in Spain from Pakistan.
In Spain the Pakis are moving here in droves, they have the great opportunity to open small grocery stores and fruit markets and dont have to pay any taxes for 7 years....after that time,they sell it to another Paki and paying taxes becomes non existant.

[Glenn]

We just pissed the Pakis off today by killing 15 so far with drones on their border of Afganistan. They already warned US : No More Strikes INSIDE Pak. It should be interesting how this is played out. I'm also thinking are we acting quickly on info we received from the raid?

I also read this morning dated May 3, interesting article by Alex Jones at http://www.infowars.com/forget-pakis...ion-all-along/

[Andrew, Jr.]

I do feel the Pakistan gov't knew all along where OBL was living. The gov't ignored him, and let him hide in plain site just as long as they could get away with it. They were caught, and now with the evidence that our soldiers got from inside the OBL compound, it will be real interesting to see what is released for the world to see.

[NJFemmie]

They knew. You don't build a million dollar home and not know who's living in it.

[foxyshaman]

They knew. He was living in a posh neighborhood with the military elite. I think he outlived his usefulness, the Pak gov't neeeded something from the US and voila... oh look here he is.

I don't believe they could have carried out an airstrike in that region without the permission of the Pak gov't, or their assistance.

They knew.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

We just pissed the Pakis off today by killing 15 so far with drones on their border of Afganistan. They already warned US : No More Strikes INSIDE Pak. It should be interesting how this is played out. I'm also thinking are we acting quickly on info we received from the raid?

I also read this morning dated May 3, interesting article by Alex Jones at http://www.infowars.com/forget-pakis...ion-all-along/

Seriously? Honestly think using these kinds of slurs are disrespectful and only continues to widen the void.

As for the topic question...I guess I don't really care if they knew or not. If they did know, it was pretty convenient for George W to go and start an illegal war in Iraq as an extension of the supposed "war on terror." If the Pakistani gov't knew, then the American government likely knew as well...but then they wouldn't have been able to justify the unlawful invasion of Iraq if they'd killed him ten years ago.

And no I'm not dipping my toes into conspiracy theory here, just saying that it was pretty convenient to "not know" as far as starting a war that was more about imperialism than anything else.

Also wanted to add that I think the fact that many Pakistanis are irritated by what some see as disregard for Pakistan's sovereignty by the US is more of an issue on how US-Pakistani relations will look in the future than this.

[Legendryder]

Well, I say if Pakistan is so angry with us, we withdraw our support and leave. See how quickly they change their tune.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Legendryder

Well, I say if Pakistan is so angry with us, we withdraw our support and leave. See how quickly they change their tune.

I'm really not sure they would change it. American nationalists seem to take this stance with anyone they provide aid to who dares to question them. "Our way or the highway." Yet rarely does their aid do much to help the general population to begin with. It's this kind of pompous, arrogant behaviour the rest of the world detests so much. But I suppose some people like to reinforce stereotypes...

[Legendryder]

You are correct. I am an American. It is my birthright to be pompus. So there.

[Glenn]

[QUOTE=EnderD_503;333923] it was pretty convenient to "not know" as far as starting a war that was more about imperialism than anything else.

Blaming my country isn't part of the solution either. Moslem radicals have attacked soo many other countries that don't even have any troops there. It's more complicated than imperialism vs. 3rd world underdog.

[rockybcn]

I can tell you this.....there is something brewing in the air last few days...and it isnt coffee! The Pakis here have been congregating more than usual in my barrio. There seems to be some anger or frustration and they have been loud and demonstrative against some people. It died down after awhile because it was drawing too much attention. Today I was out walking my dog and two Pakis were approaching from the other direction. The one deliberately plowed into my shoulder. It didnt phase me but it sent him off kilter and that was a humiliation I am sure!!!! He yelled a profanity my way but I never looked back. It wouldnt surprise me if there is more anti american sentiment that takes place here in Spain.

[Words]

I cannot believe some of the shit that I'm reading here.

I used to think that some Americans were just naive. Now I realize that they're not naive at all, they're just ignorant. (Same applies to us Brits before anyone goes accusing me of picking on 'you Yanks', though in my opinion, to a much lesser degree). Offensive? Good. I want to offend you. I want you to KNOW what those 'Pakis' must feel like though, on a scale of one to ten in terms of offensiveness, I'd reckon that 'you Yanks' are getting off pretty lightly.

This thread makes my stomach churn. Just like it churned earlier today when I read about the women and children that were killed in the attack on the Pakistan border. Or don't Afghani/Paki women and children count? No of course they don't. Same way that Bin Laden's wife and children didn't count when the US shot BL's brains out in front of them. Same way all those Iraqi children and women didn't count when the West put monetary interest ahead of the human rights of those they claimed to be protecting (pleeeeeease). And those Palestinian children and women, you know, the ones the world conveniently forgot. And ALL those women and children whose lives don't count because, after all, we had to prove a point because, well, that is what we do.

And you wonder why the Muslims have no respect for the USA? Amazing.

Words

[Strappie]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

We just pissed the Pakis off today by killing 15 so far with drones on their border of Afganistan. They already warned US : No More Strikes INSIDE Pak. It should be interesting how this is played out. I'm also thinking are we acting quickly on info we received from the raid?

I also read this morning dated May 3, interesting article by Alex Jones at http://www.infowars.com/forget-pakis...ion-all-along/

So it's okay for people to use Pak?? God I hope we don't start using the N word.. cause I will RUN as fast as I can from this site.

I find this completely OFFENSIVE!

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

We just pissed the Pakis off today by killing 15 so far with drones on their border of Afganistan. They already warned US : No More Strikes INSIDE Pak. It should be interesting how this is played out. I'm also thinking are we acting quickly on info we received from the raid?

I also read this morning dated May 3, interesting article by Alex Jones at http://www.infowars.com/forget-pakis...ion-all-along/

Ignorance abounds.........

by the way..........Alex Jones is an ultra-right wing idealogue and a conspiracy junkie...........why in the hell would anyone read his lies????

[Toughy]

Did the Pakistan government know where bin Laden was hiding ..............shrug...........maybe some folks in the government did and some didn't.

Did we violate Pakistan's ground and airspace? We have been bombing the Pakistan/Afghanistan border for months now with the permission of Pakistan. President Obama publicly said we would go in and get bin Laden and he said it often.

I'm completely sure Pakistan officials knew we would send in a team at any time to get him if we knew where he was.

It's a moot point as far as I am concerned. The thing that is good is that we didn't bomb the fuck out of the area his compound was located and created lots of civilian casualities, no intelligence/information, and possibly not killing him. This was quick, clean....in and out with minimal damage and lots of intelligience/infomation found.

Concerning one of bin Laden's wives and child(ren) seeing him get a part of his head blown off. The wife knew what could happen if she lived with him. She did not have to be there, nor did the children. I'm not likely to shed a tear or have a second thought about her seeing him get killed.

[Words]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Concerning one of bin Laden's wives and child(ren) seeing him get a part of his head blown off. The wife knew what could happen if she lived with him. She did not have to be there, nor did the children. I'm not likely to shed a tear or have a second thought about her seeing him get killed.

No one's asking you to shed a tear about anything Toughy.

I disagree with you though about the wife and children not having to be there. Why wouldn't they be there? This was her husband, their father -where else were they likely to be?

You might not care about a 12 year old seeing her father blown to bits but me? Yeah, I have an issue with it. I've met children like that before, seen what it does to them, and I'm sorry, but given that Bin Laden wasn't armed, I just don't get why killing him in front of his family was necessary.

And no, I don't care who he was, or what he did - I'd say exactly the same thing were we talking about Hitler. Sins of the fathers, and all that.

Words

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Words

Why wouldn't they be there? This was her husband, their father -where else were they likely to be?

Thank you. i normally don't get "upset" by posts, but an earlier one saying that his wives were there probably just for sex and that the kids were just basically thought of as new canon fodder for the revolution nearly made me wretch.

That is classic othering. CLASSIC dehumanization of the other. If you say someone cannot love their wives or their children, what are they? If we dehumanize others, then we are doing exactly what Osama did, which is what made it possible for him to kill innocents.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Words

No one's asking you to shed a tear about anything Toughy.

I disagree with you though about the wife and children not having to be there. Why wouldn't they be there? This was her husband, their father -where else were they likely to be?

You might not care about a 12 year old seeing her father blown to bits but me? Yeah, I have an issue with it. I've met children like that before, seen what it does to them, and I'm sorry, but given that Bin Laden wasn't armed, I just don't get why killing him in front of his family was necessary.

And no, I don't care who he was, or what he did - I'd say exactly the same thing were we talking about Hitler. Sins of the fathers, and all that.

Words

This brings me back to working with foster kids, far too many of them seeing a parent (or both) murdered. They never get over this. In some cases, the parents knew they were putting their kids in harms way, but drug induced states clouded common sense.

I don't believe bin Laden should have had his kids in that situation in the first place. It goes against my every thread of what parent protection ought to be.

However, I realize that I am speaking from a very different cultural perspective. I have never lived (well, until 9/11- but still very different than countless countries where this stuff goes on almost daily) with this kind of violence surrounding me as part of life.

There are many, many of us here in the US that derive no satisfaction from the killing of his kids or some of them seeing this. They are little kids.

It is the "part of life" worldwide that bothers me- and what feels like a lack of any regard for figuring out how we (the US) can change how we are viewed. This bothers me deeply. There is no “closure” here at all.

[Toughy]

I am not always perfect. I try to be. I try to always see the humanity in folks. I certainly am not celebrating his death or the manner in which he was killed. As I said my preference was alive and in our civilian judicial system.

As to why an unarmed man was killed........without being there I cannot say why it happened. Having been in the military I can see how it would happen. War kills unarmed folks. There was every justified expectation that bin Laden was armed and dangerous. He had said he would not be taken alive.

However your point is taken. It is a bad thing to not really care about what a woman and her child saw, regardless of who they are.

Originally Posted by Words

No one's asking you to shed a tear about anything Toughy.

I disagree with you though about the wife and children not having to be there. Why wouldn't they be there? This was her husband, their father -where else were they likely to be?

You might not care about a 12 year old seeing her father blown to bits but me? Yeah, I have an issue with it. I've met children like that before, seen what it does to them, and I'm sorry, but given that Bin Laden wasn't armed, I just don't get why killing him in front of his family was necessary.

And no, I don't care who he was, or what he did - I'd say exactly the same thing were we talking about Hitler. Sins of the fathers, and all that.

Words