Did the Pakistan government know Osama bin Laden was there?

[Toughy]

me in this color

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Toughy, you assumed I had no white, and if we want to get to the nitty gritty I can't not even in a census claim it since I am of Hispanic descent as they so kindly put it, when I check the census box I check what I am and that is Hispanic or better yet LATINO/A. Just because I was or have some form of white origin in me (btw I don't know exactly since the deed was not consentual) that doesn't mean I was raised, or am I culturally so, I was born in Mexico, my mother is mexican and so is my other family, now the man who raised me is white, he is my father the only one I know of. I don't have to explain why I use LATINA as my label just the same way I don't ask you to explain to me why at one time you use she or others hy.

Good grief.....I know you id as a Latina and I never questioned that. If I ever did refer to you based on your ancestry I would say Latina, not brown woman. That is not what I was asking about. I was trying to understand why I can't use the term brown, but you can use the term white. If it's disrespectful to refer to folks as brown, then it's disrespectful to refer to folks as white. Do you not understand that?


Do you not see how disrespectful and ugly that is? It's who I am I am LATINA the other blood or heritage that is in my DNA doesn't erase the fact I was raised as such, born as such and kept as such and yet my labels and how I choose to identify are continously questioned by people of lighter skin than myself. I don't even get to choose to use white if I wanted to Tougy and you care to know why?

Cause for some fucked up unknown reason people who are lighter than I and see my darker skin *automatically* assume I don't even belong here or hthat I am not American.

I am, I live in the United States of America, I am a LATINA woman, not a brown woman, my name is Snow and I am a LATINA woman who happens to have a dash of non LATINO blood in me yet I still can't identify as so because not only do caucasians not allow it, neither does a goverment when counting the great people of this nation.

I hear you and understand you get treated like shit by both POC and non-POC for various reasons. I think it's fucked up. I think there are some really fucked up asshats in this world who use fucked up ideas to demean folks. I understand it makes you look at (what seems to be) everyone with distrust. I do get that.

I also would suggest that not all us white folks are asshat racist folks. There are many of us who stand with you about things like 'papers please' legislation. I am appalled and horrified that our President had to present his 'papers please' to make those asshats shut the fuck up.


I don't feel this is a derailment of the thread, the racial slurs that have been used and have been thrown in clear print, yet for some fucked up unknown reason people want to jump down on me for not allowing them?

Do you not see the ridiculousness of that?

Frankly, I never heard folks from Pakistan referred to as P***s.......it's a new one to me. I learned something. I don't see where you have been jumped down on in this thread....certainly not by me.

I personally don't like the use of astericks in place of spelling out the actual word. When I see n*****, I think the word in my head....I don't understand why n***** is better than actually spelling out the word...the result is the same. If I had seen P***s, I would have been completely clueless. I'm not sure I would have picked up on the j** or s*** without more clarification. Those words are not something I hear said by my friends.

Should I just continue to sit silent and not derail a thread when racist comments are being made? I just don't understand how much more (even if it ONE POC saying please don't) this community expects for POC to take.

Is that the goal, to have all POC silenced regardless of how small and simple the request and for the sake of not derailing?

I think racist stuff should be called out when and where it happens.

My suggesting another thread for this was about the big picture conversation concerning using crayola colors when talking about folks. The big picture about terminology and what is appropriate and not appropriate on the Planet.

My goal was to have a conversation, not to silence anyone. I am not in the habit of trying to silence folks. I welcome disscusion and conversation about ideas and concepts, not about individuals. As Random pointed out....there are folks on this site that prefer 'crayola colors' to ancestral origins in describing themselves or others.

Is this for realz?

I absolutley loathe the term 'caucasian'. It enforces the idea there are only 3 racial groups: Cacasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid. It ignores the idea that race is a social construct. It inhibits our ability to understand race and gender as social contructs and not scientific fact.
Understanding that race is not science, makes it easier to move forward on issues of equality

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm not doing the merry go round with you Toughy where you act like you didn't mean anything or it wasn't personal, or you weren't just singling it me out because frankly I don't believe you. I am noticing that my use of the word white is getting more attention and more lecturing than the other racist slurs that were used.

That's odd to me and tells me A LOT.

I don't get why it's so hard to not use the words, why can't a person be considerate enough to just listen, and frankly white is not an offensive nor is it an oppressing term to use when referring to people nor has white been used historically, socially as an opressing term.

It's beyond me how you can't see it and honestly telling how once again no matter how much a POC (even if one) asks that people aren't going to listen because it's gonna be all about the majority and certainly not the minority.

[Toughy]

Snow I am sorry you think I am a liar and think we have some sort of bad blood between us. Neither of those things are true for me. I was hoping for a conversation about ideas with you and other folks.....conversations are not merry-go-rounds in my mind.

It is very disheartening to try to be clear and not have you understand it. I don't know what else to do or say. It is disheartening to have you not address my questions so I may be able to understand your position. I truly want to understand what I saw as an inconsistency in your statements.


I have no issues with how Ender used those racial slurs. I agree with the idea that those words can be spelled out and used in conversation in a non-racist manner. I dont' believe the context in which Ender used those terms to be racist. It was, in fact, pointing out racism.

I have not nor will I ever refer to you personally as a brown woman. You request Latina and it will as always be Latina, when appropriate, in reference to you as I stated above. I respect your preferences. I also respect other POC folks preferences. I call people what they want. Sometimes what one person likes, another hates. Someone pointed out it's similiar to pronouns.......there are personal preferences.

The issue is what is the acceptable culture for the Planet. I'm not sure how to address that because of the differences of opinion among POC about the use of 'crayola color' when referring to POC. It is a conundrum for sure.

Happy Mother's Day tomorrow........I hope you have a great one.

[The_Lady_Snow]

We're not going to agree on how words should be used since for you they have a different feel to them, I did not nor do I like when a person who is not of any kind of LATINO/A descent uses the words sp** and it's a disgusting and ugly term, it shouldn't matter how it was used, what should matter is a member of a community as that those terms not be used, or better yet take the time to refer to someone by their cultural reference.

I don't see you Toughy calling out (that's what this has turned to) any other person but me for using the term *white* there are other POC that have yet you are *choosing* to police me, and continue to deflect it on me because of the word white??

I am now up to GAWD knows how many posts explaining over and over why I felt the way I did, and all I've gotten is the wagging of the finger for using the words white.

As I said earlier, I get the big picture, and even though the slurs were used, and only one POC (me) says don't do it it's not going to be listened to, what this has now turned into as this is how it feels to me as a member of this community that how I address a white person is being scrutinized.

Consider me silenced I should of known my place.

ETA

This is not the first time I have asked in a mannerly fashion for the word sp*** to not be used.

[Toughy]

shaking my head............you will attach whatever you want to what I write.......my words are there to speak for me

(except for moderators on this website) the only person who can silence you is yourself..........

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

We're not going to agree on how words should be used since for you they have a different feel to them, I did not nor do I like when a person who is not of any kind of LATINO/A descent uses the words sp** and it's a disgusting and ugly term, it shouldn't matter how it was used, what should matter is a member of a community as that those terms not be used, or better yet take the time to refer to someone by their cultural reference.

I don't see you Toughy calling out (that's what this has turned to) any other person but me for using the term *white* there are other POC that have yet you are *choosing* to police me, and continue to deflect it on me because of the word white??

I am now up to GAWD knows how many posts explaining over and over why I felt the way I did, and all I've gotten is the wagging of the finger for using the words white.

As I said earlier, I get the big picture, and even though the slurs were used, and only one POC (me) says don't do it it's not going to be listened to, what this has now turned into as this is how it feels to me as a member of this community that how I address a white person is being scrutinized.

Consider me silenced I should of known my place.

ETA

This is not the first time I have asked in a mannerly fashion for the word sp*** to not be used.

That word and many others have no place here or anywhere.