I am... and I prefer the term...

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Having read this over a few times, I am still confused as to what it is asking.

I am a lesbian who prefers to be called a woman.

I prefer to call others male or female cuz it is simplier.

The only time I tend to want to break it down further is if I am interested
in dating someone.

Is that in one of the poll choices?

Hi, Kobi.

The poll is asking

1) how you define

2) what you prefer to call people who are non trans. non trans meaning a person who is born into the correct body. Those people would fit the definition of the term cissexed and the other choices given.

There has been a push from the transsexed/transsexual/trans community to use the term cissexed. There has been some push back from non trans people. I am wondering people's preferences.

[Sparkle]

I think that one of the privileges I experience as a Femme, who has never had conflict with the gender characteristics I was born with, is that I haven't had to give this issue much thought.

I simply have no preference, outside of conversations on here or very specific conversations about gender/gender identity/societal expectations etc. with friends, there is no reason for me to refer to my gender identity as cis, bio or XX.

I wonder... as we continue to explore gender identity and particularly as we push the conversation further in to the mainstream - perhaps (???) we should be on the same page with the terminology that we use when discussing Trans issues, with the realization that discussing the Trans experience may require we compare and contrast it to the __(cis/bio/XX)__ experience.

Should we?

Thanks Dapper, your poll has made me examine my privilege.

I still don't have a preference for one term over another, none feel *right* to me ... but perhaps I should really think about how best to articulate the concept.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I think that one of the privileges I experience as a Femme, who has never had conflict with the gender characteristics I was born with, is that I haven't had to give this issue much thought.

I simply have no preference, outside of conversations on here or very specific conversations about gender/gender identity/societal expectations etc. with friends, there is no reason for me to refer to my gender identity as cis, bio or XX.

I wonder... as we continue to explore gender identity and particularly as we push the conversation further in to the mainstream - perhaps (???) we should be on the same page with the terminology that we use when discussing Trans issues, with the realization that discussing the Trans experience may require we compare and contrast it to the __(cis/bio/XX)__ experience.

Should we?

Thanks Dapper, your poll has made me examine my privilege.

I still don't have a preference for one term over another, none feel *right* to me ... but perhaps I should really think about how best to articulate the concept.

Thanks, Sparkle. I appreciate your post.

I did a poor introduction to the topic, but this is where I was trying to go.

It may have made more sense for me to put it into the trans section, but I didn't want to exclude the rest of the site.

When the site first opened a couple of transsexed folks encouraged the use of the term cissexed when speaking about non trans people. I have had some discomfort with the term, but have continuously come up against this memory of preference every time I want to refer to someone who is non trans. I have always said bio male, for example, but now I hesitate with what to use, as I have heard transsexed individuals not like the use of that term. So, that is why I started going with XY male.

It does go back to privilege, I think. And who decides what term to use? You know?

Thanks again, Sparkle.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

It does go back to privilege, I think. And who decides what term to use? You know?

I totally agree! Transsexual/transgendered was not a label that was originally introduced by the people whom it was intended to label; it was a label assigned to people by the dominant culture who had the ability to force a label onto a group of people. I think that the only reason this is a debate right now is b/c cis attempts to label non-trans folks in a way that doesn't set us up as the norm, and the discomfort comes from it not feeling like the "normal" id. i needed a lot of dialogue around it before i felt like i understood and was comfortable using it, privilege can easily be discounted by those who have it.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

I totally agree! Transsexual/transgendered was not a label that was originally introduced by the people whom it was intended to label; it was a label assigned to people by the dominant culture who had the ability to force a label onto a group of people. I think that the only reason this is a debate right now is b/c cis attempts to label non-trans folks in a way that doesn't set us up as the norm, and the discomfort comes from it not feeling like the "normal" id. i needed a lot of dialogue around it before i felt like i understood and was comfortable using it, privilege can easily be discounted by those who have it.

Great post! Great point!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

I totally agree! Transsexual/transgendered was not a label that was originally introduced by the people whom it was intended to label; it was a label assigned to people by the dominant culture who had the ability to force a label onto a group of people. I think that the only reason this is a debate right now is b/c cis attempts to label non-trans folks in a way that doesn't set us up as the norm, and the discomfort comes from it not feeling like the "normal" id. i needed a lot of dialogue around it before i felt like i understood and was comfortable using it, privilege can easily be discounted by those who have it.

Absolutely!

[Billy]

This poll to ME doesn't make sense ......Because I never saw Myself as female at all , I always saw Myself as male .....And everytime I turn around there is a new word or ID for this or that .....What the fuck is a transsexed ?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Billy

This poll to ME doesn't make sense ......Because I never saw Myself as female at all , I always saw Myself as male .....And everytime I turn around there is a new word or ID for this or that .....What the fuck is a transsexed ?

Transsexed = transsexual. Some transpeople do not like the term transsexual, so I used the term transsexed out of respect.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Transsexed = transsexual. Some transpeople do not like the term transsexual, so I used the term transsexed out of respect.

But transsexed isn't even a word , this is what I mean ..This is something that to me someone just made up trying to be respectful to others , when I now feel disrespected .What I am trying to say here is that perhaps it should have been left at transgendered all down instead of making up a word ....Now with that said I ID as Billy ..

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Billy

But transsexed isn't even a word , this is what I mean ..This is something that to me someone just made up trying to be respectful to others , when I now feel disrespected .What I am trying to say here is that perhaps it should have been left at transgendered all down instead of making up a word ....Now with that said I ID as Billy ..

I'm sorry if you feel disrespected. I did not make up the term transsexed. It is used in the trans community. It has been used on this site and there have been discussions about its use on this site. Trans people on this site have said they prefer this term over transsexual.

So, that is why I used it.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I'm sorry if you feel disrespected. I did not make up the term transsexed. It is used in the trans community. It has been used on this site and there have been discussions about its use on this site.

However, since its use is not all that common, it may have been a better choice to use the term transsexual.

I understand what you where trying to do I really do .......I am not trying to start up a huge debate in your thread ....But I wonder where some of this stuff comes from really and for some reason TRANSSEXED hit Me the wrong way ...If I HAD to make a choice it would be transgendered ..So either way I think that someone will get bent out of shape ....

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by June

I don't even think it's possible to come up with a comprehensive list of who we all are. And I never thought about it before I saw the poll, but when I was pondering it just now, I realized that just about everyone I know has their own definition of who they are.

Except Femmes.

Queer Femme, Femme Lesbian, Femme Top, Daddy, Stone Femme...Uh, am I missing anything?

And Bulldog, I didn't know you didn't ID as a Female Identified Butch! (FIB for short). Butch Woman is cool, and much simpler, actually.

Hang in there Dapper, you assigned yourself a hard task and I don't think you could have realized it at the time. Perhaps some good discussion will continue that will help us all understand each other better

Thanks June. I think so. Actually I have said several times I don't id as female identified but I guess it gets lost in the shuffle because that is the predominant classification scheme that people use in online bf communities- female or male id'd. If it is someone's personal identity I am happy to refer to them that way, but as a classification scheme I don't like it. It would be kinda like dividing all femmes into high or low, or stone or non-stone or something- which of course most femmes wouldn't fit into.

To answer the question I am a butch woman and was born female and still am female. I guess I would go with XX and XY. At one point people suggested genetic female and genetic male. That seems ok to me, not sure if it would be widely accepted.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Billy

But transsexed isn't even a word , this is what I mean ..This is something that to me someone just made up trying to be respectful to others , when I now feel disrespected .What I am trying to say here is that perhaps it should have been left at transgendered all down instead of making up a word ....Now with that said I ID as Billy ..

Dapper didn't make up the word "transsexed." It's one that's being use increasingly more frequently throughout the trans community.

The reason for it is that the word "transsexual" by nature implies sexuality, when it has nothing to do with sexuality. I think it's important to question why other sexes are deemed as such, and even intersexed is called intersexed instead of intersexual. It would be ridiculous if it was, because being intersexed is not a sexuality. And neither is being trans. By moving toward the popular use of the word transsexed, we move toward removing the stereotypes attached to trans; that 1) being trans is a sexuality and 2) garnering that from the past where being trans was (and in some cases still is) considered to be a mental illness or sexual fetish.

[EnderD_503]

On another note, I don't get the big deal being made in this thread. Yeah, the poll was narrow in its scope as far as including all identities, but that happens all the time with forum polls. I think Dapper even explained hy was limited by the fact that the forum only allows a certain number of poll options, so hy tried to cover the most frequently used identities.

I didn't participate in the poll myself, because I would have liked to be able to choose two of the options listed or have the hormones/no hormones option added to other identities. But it wasn't, no harm no foul. I think the question Dapper actually asked is the important part...especially since there have been posters who have expressed their discomfort with the term cissexed/cisgender on this forum before. I think posters have gotten way too caught up in the poll options and not enough time spent on the actual question at hand...which I think is a good one.

[betenoire]

People there is actually a programmed limit on how many options can be put into a poll in the forums, so it's simply the nature of the beast that it's impossible for every single answer/combination of answers to be represented.

And I'm just going to go ahead and come out of hiding long enough to say that to me, personally, sitting at my computer desk in Canada - sometimes when I see loads of "but you didn't include blah blah blah" and "but what exactly does this option mean?" and "well I prefer this wording over that wording" it comes across as not-so-subtle shit-stirring. Hey, maybe that's not where everybody is coming from - and if you're not shit-stirring that's great. But like I said, this colour-treated redhead sitting at a desk in a random livingroom in Canada thinks it comes across that way.

Now for my answer to the poll:

I am a "Femme" (of sorts) and I prefer to use no term at all (so I prefer only to say "female" "male" "man" and "woman") but when the nature of the conversation makes it necessary to clarify I prefer to use the term "non-trans" because I think it's cheeky.

(ETA - and before anybody decides to accuse me of dogpiling I am going to go ahead and point out that I had started composing my post at 11:34.)

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Hi, Kobi.

The poll is asking

1) how you define

2) what you prefer to call people who are non trans. non trans meaning a person who is born into the correct body. Those people would fit the definition of the term cissexed and the other choices given.

There has been a push from the transsexed/transsexual/trans community to use the term cissexed. There has been some push back from non trans people. I am wondering people's preferences.

Hi Dapper,

Maybe my confusion is my choice isnt listed.

I define as female/woman and I prefer to refer to others as male/man or female/woman minus the clarification of how one got there.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Hi Dapper,

Maybe my confusion is my choice isnt listed.

I define as female/woman and I prefer to refer to others as male/man or female/woman minus the clarification of how one got there.

Hi, Kobi. My guess is you define as a female identified butch, correct?

The second part of the question is if you call people who do not identify as trans, cissexed, bio male or bio female, or xy male and xx female in conversation.

[BullDog]

I don't know about Kobi, but I am a butch woman. I don't identify as a female identified butch. I don't use that language. To me female is my biological sex not my gender. I don't like the classification scheme where people divide butches up based on female-identified vs. male identified.

[DapperButch]

You know what? I had a question. I did the best I could. I really am not getting why this is continuing to be picked apart. Seriously.

Linus, could this thread please be closed? All it has become is me explaining why I did what and no discussion is happening.

ETA:I certainly don't mind answering questions, but the point of the thread has been lost and I don't see that shifting.

[BullDog]

Dapper I am not picking you apart. I just don't id as female identified or male identified.