Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

[suebee]

I haven't been following this case. After my years in child protection I deliberately don't follow cases like this. But - from what is being posted here my thoughts are as follows: 1) The jury only had what was presented to them to work with, and that, within the confines of the law. I can only assume they did the best they could with what they had. 2) I have got to say that as imperfect as the system is I'd rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent one spend their life in jail or worse. I try to keep in mind that there are OTHER ways that the unconvicted guilty ones pay for their crimes. 3) I can only hope that the prosecution went to trial having presented the best case possible rather than rushing to trial with a weak case because of public pressure. Sometimes the evidence needed to convict just isn't there. Let's hope that's the case here. 4) This leaves me wondering if there was/is any other way to make the mother accountable for her actions or to prevent further tragedies involving this woman. While the criminal justice system has a "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, child protection laws usually have a lesser standard - usually more like if there IS reasonable doubt that the safety of the child is at risk.

I can only hope that if Kaylee ever has another earthly life to live, that she will be loved and doted on beyond her wildest imagination. I'm sorry for what happened to you little princess.

Sue

[RavynTuqiri]

...I know this is going to go against popular belief but I think the jury actually made the right decision. Remember that what we see through news media isn't always presented in court (or allowed to be presented). I have watched the trial proceedings off and on and if I were on the jury, I would be significantly torn between "feeling" she was guilty by her actions (before, during and after Caylee's disappearance and body being found), and having enough evidence to "think" beyond a reasonable doubt that she was guilty.

The coroner's report listed cause of death as homicide solely on the premise that duct tape was found over the mouth but could not determine forensically how that homicide had been carried out. There was no physical evidence to tie anyone within the family to any homicide.

As much of an injustice this is for little Caylee...I do believe that the jury made the right decision give the facts they had to deal with. The only thing proven beyond any reasonable doubt was that Casey lies. Being a liar doesn't inherently make one a murderer.

And I don't see how race plays into this or the OJ case. Wealth played into the OJ case. He bought the best damn defense team money could buy. He got what he paid for.

Casey didn't have the best defense team...she was lucky the state could only garner the evidence it did. For as horrific this case was, they (the prosecution) should have deferred charges until they had a more solid case.

Now with all that said...do I feel like Casey is guilty? Yes. Of pre-meditated murder? Not so sure on that one....but feel she did cause her daughter's death, accidental or not.

What I do find perplexing is that this case has grabbed headline news worldwide and others, like Christian Choate from Gary, Ind...has had very little:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_884731.html

I think her and the Anthony family grabbed headlines because of their social status...not because her crime was unique (unfortunately) or overly atrocious as some child abuse / parent-child homicide cases are.

[RavynTuqiri]

And for the record...if I was ever to be accused of a crime that i wasn't guilty of...I would be taking the stand in my own defense. I am a mom, I have a child...if she were ever to have been murdered and I stood accused...no one could keep me off of the stand to have my say. No one could keep me out of the media to combat the circus around my daughter's death.

But then again....look what the media did to John and Patsy Ramsey. It took over 10 years for technology to develop along far enough to exonerate them both (but not quick enough before Patsy passed away).....

Makes you think what the impact the media, and all its avenues to paint distorted pictures of cases like this, plays on our judicial system.

[BullDog]

What astounds me is how someone could admit to covering up an "accidental" death and only get a max of 4 years in prison for it. Whether the little girl was killed or died accidentally the fact that her body wasn't recovered for so long made it extremely difficult to have any real investigation as to the cause of her death. So how could she get a max of 4 years for this? This isn't just about lying, she was obstructing the investigation. Not that I really believe the drowning story.

The theory that the child drowned and evil father decides this needs to be covered up doesn't make a lick of sense to me. If a child accidentally drowns of course there will be an investigation and it's going to be questioned why the adults in the house weren't looking after her better. However if you try to cover up a death by going out to bury a body there are way too many things that could go wrong and if discovered you are going to be in lots more hot water than reporting an accidental death. I would think a former police officer like the father would know this better than anyone. It makes no sense.

Also was there any solid proof offered that the mother had been abused or how this connected to the crime? The defense bringing this in seems quite reckless to me. All they have to do is offer a hint of suggestion and have little Casey slump down in her chair to look more child-like herself but offer no real proof? How many women who were abused as children would try to cover up their child's "accidental" death and then move in with their boyfriend and go out partying?

[Toughy]

jurors were affected by the so called Stockholm Syndrone, and because of the length of the trial and feeling or emotions for the defendant can develop.

This is not a true statement. Stockholm Syndrome is not about jurors who may or may not be sequestered in a long trial. Suggesting that it could apply to a jury ignores and downplays the true nature of this phenomena. It is about hostages....folks taken against their will and kept captive. It is about empathy with the captors. Patty Hearst is probably the best known case in the US.

Having feelings or emotions about a defendant as a juror in a trial is an entirely different thing.

------------------------------
We (citizens of the US) have known for decades that race and class have everything to do with prosecution and prison time. If you don't believe it, just look at Oscar Grant (by the way....BART cops shot and killed a guy with a knife a couple of days ago on a BART platform) and at the arrest of a POC for the beating of a white guy in LA at a baseball game. That POC still has not been charged in that case, but they got him on a parole violation and he is in jail right now (there were weapons in the house he was arrested in....not his weapons). He didn't have anything to do with beating the paramedic white guy....oh the poor kids and wife of the white guy, so get the first convenient brown tattoed gang guy.

Anyway as to Casey Anthony. I have no idea what she did or didn't do. I don't listen to emtional bullshit spit out by TV entertainment news anchors. Justice is never accomplished when everyone does that. I am sure Walter Cronkite is spinning in his grave over Julie Chen crying on TV about this verdict. I am also very glad Nancy Grace is no longer a prosecutor.

[RavynTuqiri]

Originally Posted by RavynTuqiri

...
What I do find perplexing is that this case has grabbed headline news worldwide and others, like Christian Choate from Gary, Ind...has had very little:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_884731.html

I think her and the Anthony family grabbed headlines because of their social status...not because her crime was unique (unfortunately) or overly atrocious as some child abuse / parent-child homicide cases are.

And thanks to Scota for posting the lesser known case of Christian in another forum and bringing a greater awareness to child abuse as a whole.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by RavynTuqiri

And thanks to Scota for posting the lesser known case of Christian in another forum and bringing a greater awareness to child abuse as a whole.

I read that yesterday online and a piece of my heart broke. That sweet, sweet boy. Children should never-ever have to experience even a second of such pain and sorrow.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by RavynTuqiri

...What I do find perplexing is that this case has grabbed headline news worldwide and others, like Christian Choate from Gary, Ind...has had very little:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_884731.html

I think her and the Anthony family grabbed headlines because of their social status...not because her crime was unique (unfortunately) or overly atrocious as some child abuse / parent-child homicide cases are.

I think this case got such intense and lasting media coverage, not because of the family's social status, but because they were setting up tents, getting involved with Child Find (I think that's the name) and pulling in 4,000 volunteers to search for their "missing" child by going on the news and begging people to help them find her.

They set themselves up for the media coverage that followed.

[girl_dee]

2008
June 16, 2008 — 2-year-old Caylee Anthony is last seen alive leaving the home of her grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, along with her mother Casey.
June 18, 2008 — Casey Anthony borrows a shovel from Brian Burner, a neighbor of George and Cindy Anthony. Burner says that Anthony returned it an hour later.
June 20, 2008 — Casey Anthony is captured in various photos partying at Fusion nightclub and participating in a “hard body contest.”
June 23, 2008 — Casey Anthony and her boyfriend, Lazzaro, break into a shed at the Anthony family home to borrow her father’s gas cans to fill her car, which had run empty.
June 24, 2008 — Casey Anthony gets into a fight with George Anthony about the gas can and she storms out of the home. She tells her father that Caylee is with the babysitter, Zanny.
June 25, 2008 — Cell phone records show she was in the area of her parents’ home.
July 15, 2008 — George and Cindy Anthony pick up Casey’s car from a tow yard. George Anthony observes a strong odor emanating from the vehicle. Later, back at the Anthony family home, Casey tells her mother and brother, Lee Anthony, that she hasn't seen Caylee in a month and that a babysitter named Zanaida Fernandez Gonzalez (Zanny) kidnapped her.
July 15-16, 2008 — Casey Anthony takes police to the last place she says she saw Caylee. It turns out to be a vacant apartment. Authorities also take her to Universal Studios where she said she worked. She kept walking with them and then suddenly halted when she was almost at the door of what she claimed was her office. The police testified that she then suddenly stopped and stated that she really did not work there. In fact, supervisors told the police that she hadn’t worked there in more than two years.
October 14, 2008 — Casey Anthony indicted on charges of first-degree murder, along with aggravated manslaughter, aggravated child abuse and four counts of lying to police.
December 11, 2008 — The skeletal remains of Caylee Anthony are discovered in a wooded area not far from the Anthony family home.
2009
January 22, 2009 — The Florida State Attorney's Office releases 311 pages of new documents in the Caylee Anthony case. According to the documents, Caylee's skeletal remains had been placed in a cloth laundry hamper bag, prior to being placed inside a black plastic garbage bag. The documents further reveal that a backpack with the word 'adorable' on it, a Winnie the Pooh blanket, a size 3T shirt, a pair of child's striped white shorts and small, cloth-type, iron on letters were found inside the bag. A search-warrant affidavit which detailed the discovery of the remains also described a "heart shaped" sticker that had been placed on duct tape that was found wrapped around the child's skull.[82]
January 23, 2009 — Casey Anthony's father, George Anthony, is escorted to a hospital by police after he allegedly sends suicidal text messages to family members.
April 14, 2009 — The State of Florida seeks the imposition of the Death Penalty.
June 19, 2009 — The Orange-Osceola State Attorney's Office released the 36-page Medical Examiner's report on Caylee Marie Anthony's autopsy, along with dozens of other pages of forensic reports.
August 25, 2009 — The state releases more than 2,000 pages of documents in the case, including photos from a picture-sharing Web site and aerial photos of where Caylee's remains were found.
September 8, 2009 — A judge in Orlando postpones making a decision on whether to dismiss a defamation lawsuit filed against Casey Anthony by Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.
September 17, 2009 — Casey Anthony's defense team files a motion to dismiss the murder charges against her because the state allegedly failed to preserve evidence in the case.
September 29, 2009 — The state releases additional discovery documents in the case, including forensic reports from the FBI lab in Quantico, Va., that confirmed Caylee's identity. Among the documents is a report that states the duct tape found on Caylee's mouth had been contaminated by an FBI evidence examiner.
October 6, 2009 — Assistant State Attorney Linda Drane Burdick responds to the defenses motion to dismiss the charges against Casey Anthony, claiming the motion is "legally flawed". Burdick contends it will be decided at the "close of all evidence" whether the state has proven its case.
October 9, 2009 — The state releases 1,400 pages of documents in the case, including photos and evidence from the FBI crime lab. Among the photos are pictures of Casey Anthony's infamous "La Bella Vida" (beautiful life) tattoo.
October 20, 2009 — Judge Jose R. Rodriguez denies the motion to dismiss the defamation lawsuit against Casey Anthony.
November 6, 2009 — The state releases more discovery documents in the case, including reports that a bullet shell casing was found in the vicinity where Caylee Anthony's remains were found.
December 11, 2009 — Casey Anthony breaks down in court when Jeff Ashton gives the State's account of how Caylee was murdered.
December 18, 2009 — Judge Stan Strickland denies a request to take the death penalty off the table in the prosecution of Casey Anthony.
2010
February 16, 2010 — The state releases three CD's of photos and documents in the case, including photographs of a syringe, Gatorade bottle and a child's car seat.
April 6, 2010 — Prosecutors release copies of letters that were allegedly exchanged between Casey Anthony and a jailhouse companion. Within the letter, Anthony allegedly claims Zenaida Gonzalez does not exist. Prosecutors further allege the letter reveals details about Caylee's remains that only her killer would be privy to.
April 19, 2010 — Judge Stan Strickland steps down after Casey Anthony's defense team files a motion accusing him of having a personal relationship with a pro-prosecution blogger. Strickland granted the motion not on the basis that the relationship was inappropriate, but because the accusation would "generate renewed allegations of bias". Judge Belvin Perry Jr. is appointed to take over the case.
April 23, 2010 — The state releases 300 pages of documents in the case, including FBI lab notes, which show investigators tore apart four vacuum cleaners that had been taken from the Anthony family home. The vacuum cleaners were examined for human hair with characteristics of human decomposition. None were found.
July 15, 2010 — Judge Belvin Perry rules the jury will be permitted to hear a 911 call made by Casey Anthony's mother, Cindy, in which she says the odor coming from her daughters car smells like a dead body.
July 26, 2010 — Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, lashes out at an unidentified blogger for allegedly using photos from his Facebook profile. In addition to removing the photos, Baez claims he has contacted a civil lawyer to prepare a court case against the blogger.
July 30, 2010 — Casey Anthony's defense attorneys spend three hours deposing Roy Kronk, the former Orange County employee who found Caylee Anthony's remains in December 2008.
August 9, 2010 — Casey Anthony's defense team files a motion accusing George and Cindy Anthony's former attorney, Mark NeJame, of obstruction and promoting his own interests by approaching crime writer David Lohr about writing a book on the case and discussing a plea deal Anthony had allegedly been offered. NeJame acknowledged he did discuss a book with Lohr, but says there was a misunderstanding about the plea deal.
August 16, 2010 — George and Cindy Anthony's attorney, Brad Conway, steps down because of a motion filed by Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez. The defense attorney claimed Conway was given unrestricted access to documents belonging to Texas EquuSearch, the missing person search and recovery group that searched for two-year-old Caylee Anthony. Baez claimed he was not given the same access to the documents.
August 30, 2010 — Casey Anthony's lawyers submit an amended witness list to the court that includes Anthony's family members, expert witnesses, law enforcement officials and David Lohr, a crime writer who covered the search effort for Investigation Discovery.
September 28, 2010 — Judge Belvin Perry denies a request made by Casey Anthony's defense attorneys to allow Dutch experts to do additional DNA testing on evidence that is to be submitted at trial. According to the Orlando Sentinel, Perry said he did not feel comfortable allowing evidence to leave the court's jurisdiction.
November 2, 2010 — The State of Florida releases 1,000 pages of evidence in the Casey Anthony case. The documents include letters that were sent to Casey Anthony in jail, as well as e-mail conversations among Anthony family members from 2008.
November 29, 2010 — Judge Belvin Perry denies a request made by prosecutors to order Casey Anthony's defense team to turn over information about their expert witnesses, including contracts, communications and billing records. In making his decision, Perry said prosecutors could obtain the information via the witnesses themselves or a subpoena.
2011
February 11, 2011 — Judge Belvin Perry rules that Casey Anthony's alleged history of lying and stealing is admissible in court.
February 15, 2011 — Judge Belvin Perry rules that postings by Casey Anthony allegedly made to social networking websites prior to her indictment can be presented to a jury by prosecutors. Perry also ruled that only portions of Anthony's sex life will be admissible at trial.
April 27, 2011 — Judge Allows Chloroform Test evidence to be presented at trial, rejecting a motion by Casey Anthony. The prosecution claims tests revealed significant amounts of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car.
May 9, 2011 — Jury selection begins in Clearwater for Casey Anthony’s murder trial.
May 24, 2011 — Trial begins in Orlando, Florida. The prosecution shows jurors a photo during opening statements of Caylee Anthony alive and smiling, along with a picture of the girl’s skull as it was found in 2008. They say Anthony used duct tape to suffocate her. The defense contends the child actually drowned in her grandparents’ swimming pool.
June 17, 2011 — Casey Anthony defense expert contradicts state entomologist.[83]
July 5, 2011 — Casey Anthony acquitted of all felony charges (i.e., of first-degree murder, aggravated manslaughter, and aggravated child abuse), but is convicted of misdemeanor charges of giving false information to police.[84]

Every time I read something I find more lies and deceit. How sad.

[Toughy]

Every time I read something I find more lies and deceit. How sad.

She was convicted of lies and deceit. The prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt she lied. They, however, could not do that for manslaughter or murder.

-------------------------------

Just reading the timeline this thought came to my head and was based on the amount of information the prosecution released prior to and during the trial:

The prosecution is trying this case in the media because it has only circumstantial evidence against Casey for the death of her child..

I will say this about her partying and her tatoo. Grief is a funny thing and folks deal with it in a myriad of ways from isolation to partying to having affairs (think John Edwards) to crying for days to __________. I never fault anyone for the way they grieve or express their loss. It's not my place to say there is a right way and a wrong way to grieve.

[NJFemmie]

The jury made a decision based on what the law required of them.
Doesn't mean it was the right one.

[Corkey]

In the eyes of the law it was the only one to make. I for one want the prosecution to Prove their case in a Capitol crime case. And so does the law.
Like I said before she is not innocent, but under the law she is not guilty.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Corkey

In the eyes of the law it was the only one to make. I for one want the prosecution to Prove their case in a Capitol crime case. And so does the law.
Like I said before she is not innocent, but under the law she is not guilty.

Isn't that what I just said?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Isn't that what I just said?

No you said it wasn't the right one. The only one under the law is the right one.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Corkey

No you said it wasn't the right one. The only one under the law is the right one.

The one under the law is the required one.
As far as I am concerned, it wasn't the right one.
And I don't stand alone on that feeling.

[Corkey]

You have that right, as I have mine. Either the law is right, or it isn't, and if it isn't then it has to be changed.

[The_Lady_Snow]

That woman is a cold, lying, heartless killer, she'll do it again she can't help herself!

[Corkey]

She very well may be, it wasn't proven in a court of law. Her being a liar was. Like I said not innocent.

[AtLast]

Juror: Casey Anthony verdict was the right one
Prosecution failed to prove murder beyond reasonable doubt, alternate juror says, but admits questions remain unanswered


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43651613...me_and_courts/

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One thing that strikes me with this man's thoughts is about "no motive" being presented by the prosecution. Motive is NOT required to be supplied by the prosecution to prove guilt. Yet, so many jury verdicts hang on motive. Big mistake not to address motive in cases, I think even when it isn't necessary. Most people want to know the "Why?".

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'll be boycotting ANY magazine ( Life, Time, People, Etc) that. Buys the right to that pariah's story!