Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

[princessbelle]

Release date....

Casey Anthony walks on JULY 13. Next Wednesday.


The law was followed. The judge could do no more than issue her the maximum amount of time.

I don't get why her time served for bad checks can now go retro to the offence she was just charged on. However, that is evidently the law.

Again, it is what it is.

Signing that petition for Caylee's Law.

Maybe, possibly...something positiive out of this...

[cinderella]

...that's not an uncommon Hispanic name. Maybe she was the only one in the vacinity, but still, many Zenaida Gonzlez' will be stigmatized by this, I think.

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

The real Zenaida already stated that she will sue Casey for defamation. She was denied employment because she was believed to be a baby kidnapper.

I hope they appeal and file a civil suit. It will keep Casey in the judicial system for a while if nothing else.

[Heart]

A different perspective on "Caylee's Law:" I worked with a survivor of horrific intimate partner violence whose husband suffocated their 2-month old under a mattress and forced the mother to bury the child. Because they were poor immigrants the authorities didn't know or care about what was happening in this family. When the mother was finally able to flee the house in which she had been literally imprisoned and hop a bus to escape, she was so traumatized, she could barely speak. Eventually, with help, she alerted authorities who arrested her husband.

How do you think Casey's Law would affect this mother?

(And I hope no one thinks that prosecutors wouldn't use such a law against a poor battered immigrant victim of domestic violence -- because I can assure you they would. There are hundreds of such victims imprisoned all across the U.S. right now).

Heart

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

You really know how to help a brother out.

At least I was spared having to give a lesson in how to follow the logic of a statement.

now i know why the sky is so blue and the summer is so hot and your legs are so white!

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Heart

A different perspective on "Caylee's Law:" I worked with a survivor of horrific intimate partner violence whose husband suffocated their 2-month old under a mattress and forced the mother to bury the child. Because they were poor immigrants the authorities didn't know or care about what was happening in this family. When the mother was finally able to flee the house in which she had been literally imprisoned and hop a bus to escape, she was so traumatized, she could barely speak. Eventually, with help, she alerted authorities who arrested her husband.

How do you think Casey's Law would affect this mother?

(And I hope no one thinks that prosecutors wouldn't use such a law against a poor battered immigrant victim of domestic violence -- because I can assure you they would. There are hundreds of such victims imprisoned all across the U.S. right now).

Heart

Surely under these circumstances it would be dealt with differently. She certainly was fearing for her life.

Thanks for giving this a different perspective. Information is always a good thing.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Heart

A different perspective on "Caylee's Law:" I worked with a survivor of horrific intimate partner violence whose husband suffocated their 2-month old under a mattress and forced the mother to bury the child. Because they were poor immigrants the authorities didn't know or care about what was happening in this family. When the mother was finally able to flee the house in which she had been literally imprisoned and hop a bus to escape, she was so traumatized, she could barely speak. Eventually, with help, she alerted authorities who arrested her husband.

How do you think Casey's Law would affect this mother?

(And I hope no one thinks that prosecutors wouldn't use such a law against a poor battered immigrant victim of domestic violence -- because I can assure you they would. There are hundreds of such victims imprisoned all across the U.S. right now).

Heart

This is just horrific, Heart. Thank you for sharing as this scenario is one that needs to be addressed before implementing such a law.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

This is just horrific, Heart. Thank you for sharing as this scenario is one that needs to be addressed before implementing such a law.

Absolutely, yes. It seems like it could certainly be written to address a situation in which the parent feared for their life or safety and still address the "Casey situation" in which she was clearly just partying on and having fun.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Jess

Oklahoma woman calls for parents who fail to notify police of missing child to be charged with felony; more than 37,000 supporters join in less than 24 hours.

More than 37,000 people in all 50 states have joined a Change.org campaign calling for a federal law -- called “Caylee’s Law” -- that would make the failure of a parent to notify law enforcement of a child’s disappearance a felony.

Originally Posted by Heart

A different perspective on "Caylee's Law:" I worked with a survivor of horrific intimate partner violence whose husband suffocated their 2-month old under a mattress and forced the mother to bury the child. Because they were poor immigrants the authorities didn't know or care about what was happening in this family. When the mother was finally able to flee the house in which she had been literally imprisoned and hop a bus to escape, she was so traumatized, she could barely speak. Eventually, with help, she alerted authorities who arrested her husband.

How do you think Casey's Law would affect this mother?

(And I hope no one thinks that prosecutors wouldn't use such a law against a poor battered immigrant victim of domestic violence -- because I can assure you they would. There are hundreds of such victims imprisoned all across the U.S. right now).

Heart

Heart, you raise an excellent point. While Caylee's Law only means that a parent could be charged, not convicted. Unfortunately, that means we have to trust the police and the justice system in the handling of those cases. Ideally, proper investigation would clear an abused or otherwise victimized parent. I think one thing that the Casey Anthony media circus underscores, and which has been discussed here, is the schism in our justice system when it comes to race. I can imagine a scenario where the mother you wrote about and Casey Anthony are both put in the situation of having to explain where their child is, or why their child is missing, and only one of them walking out of the police station.

The intent is good, however, toward an effort to keep children safe and making parents more accountable (because apparently some have forgotten that fundamental concept of parenting). My question is what's to be done for a child like Christian Choate, of whom the state seems to have lost track? Maybe that's a different thread topic, but it raises all sorts of questions for me, like what is the state's responsibility in a situation like his, in which Child Protective Services had been involved?

[NJFemmie]

Yup, that's kinda how a lot of people feel .... like we've been given a huge fuck you.

[girl_dee]

George and Cindy had their lawyer prepare a statement for the press, which has just been released, saying:
"The family may never know what happened to Caylee Marie Anthony. They now have closure for this chapter of their life. They will now begin the long process of rebuilding their lives. Despite the baseless defense chosen by Casey Anthony, the family believes that the jury made a fair decision based on the evidence presented, the testimony presented, the scientific information presented, and the rules that they were given by the Honorable Judge Perry to guide them."



CLOSURE?

[Heart]

Whenever I hear/read about making parents more responsible/accountable, I consider how we live in one of the most family UNfriendly countries in the world, (so-called "family values," notwithstanding). With no universal child-care, afterschool or health care, no meaningful paid maternity/paternity leave, ever-shrinking access to free family planning and mental health care, not to mention lack of affordable housing and livable wages in many sectors, it's a wonder most parents do as well as they do.

This has nothing to do with this awful case, per se, but if we had these things in place, as many other devloped countries do, it would be a heck of a lot easier to weed out the truly pathological parent from the over-stressed, under-resourced parent.

But these issues are complex, and require long-term solutions. It's easier to rant about a head-line grabbing case, whipped into a frenzy by the Nancy Graces of the tabloid media, and push through rightous and emotional legislation that may hurt innocent parents and their children.*

Heart

*not personal to anyone here, just my viewpoint.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

George and Cindy had their lawyer prepare a statement for the press, which has just been released, saying:
"The family may never know what happened to Caylee Marie Anthony. They now have closure for this chapter of their life. They will now begin the long process of rebuilding their lives. Despite the baseless defense chosen by Casey Anthony, the family believes that the jury made a fair decision based on the evidence presented, the testimony presented, the scientific information presented, and the rules that they were given by the Honorable Judge Perry to guide them."



CLOSURE?

Thanks for posting Sassy girl. Well isn't that spiffy they can find closure. I, for one, cannot and will light my porch light every night for this little girl.

More than that...for all the little people of this world who have been murdered or abused and their murderers/abusers walk free.

This whole thing is just sickening.

[Gráinne]

Anyone else notice that the web /newspapers don't show her sobbing; they show her laughing or smirking.

I think justice failed here, laws and proceedures nonwithstanding. I hope guilt eats her from inside the rest of her days (but I doubt it). She'll have more money than Job by the following Monday.

[Heart]

Here we go:

http://news.yahoo.com/brothers-3-4-f...002109465.html

These children went missing, mother had police contact, told them what she knew, and the children were discovered -- murdered, apparently by her abusive boyfriend, who had a long history of violence. He's been arrested.
While this mother could not be charged under Caylee's Law, as she DID contact authorities, how many will blame her anyway -- for being involved with an abuser/criminal?

In the 1980s Hedda Nussbaum's adopted daugher was killed by her abusive husband Joel Steinburg. They were both arrested, he for murder, she for neglect. She turned state's evidence and was granted immunity. There was a huge national outcry against her even though he had permanantly re-arranged her face, (I mean this literally -- she looked nothing like she did before she met him), tortured and terrified her and the child for years. He was convicted of manslaughter and receivedof 8-25. She had to go into hiding because of the public's rage against her for "allowing" it to happen.

My point? One of our favorite past-times in this country is blaming mothers.
I'll lay bets that most of you can name five killer mothers off the top of your heads. Now try and name five killer fathers. (Father's are ten times more likely to be responsible for the death of a child.)

In another case in NH, a mother begged and pleaded with authorities to find her children who did not return on time from court-ordered visitation. The police did nothing, sending the mother to family court which took days. In the meantime, the kids were killed by her ex. Caylee's Law is intended to punish bad parents (especially bad mothers), but what about systems such as police, child welfare, courts, that neglect the needs of families, the fears of violence survivors, enact racist, sexist, anti-immigrant, and homophobic biases, and hold mothers and fathers to vastly different standards?

Seriously. Can we move beyond this case and get to some of the deeper issues?*

Heart

*I don't mean anyone here personally, I just mean the discourse in general.

[scootebaby]

Of course the TVs and websites and newspapers are gonna ONLY show her laughing and smirking. The general public wouldnt want it any other way. I know im one of the outsiders where this is concerned,but as i was telling Jo last night...there ARE ppl out there that support Casey(and have from the beginning) and they are posting and commenting and interviewing but THEY dont get any media time whatso ever bc that would take attention off of the media circus surrounding all of this.

And i dont mean this too any particular person in here,more a general /observation from me,but this has been going on for over 3 yrs..Remember she was last seen on JUNE 16th 2008--we are now in July 2011...where were the porch lights,the support,the ppl trying to get laws passed then? was the public waiting to see if she would get put to death? would that have changed things? would the porch lights not be on now? would there not be a petition for Caylees Law?

My point is this--after the initial media crush there was VERY little about this in the news or on the lips of ppl. Im truly curious as to the why.

oh and something that came to me last night--bc im known to look at different scenarios/possibilities--George Anthony was a retired HOMICIDE detective...he would know(or at the very least have some knowledge of procedure) what would really be needed to get a conviction,and knew it would never be found....so could he have been more involved? could Caylees reaction be to him "throwing" her under the bus--on top of any other crime perpetrated upon her in her life by him? I personally feel she did not act alone in this.

As someone said we will NEVER know all the facts surrounding this case,and altho i understand the emotion response i also know that things can be misconstrued all the time--and does, and people pay the price.


just my thoughts at the moment!

[NJFemmie]

Please sign this petition and share on your FB pages and twitter accounts:

http://news.change.org/stories/more-...s-law-campaign

They have over 370K signatures already and need more for Caylee's Law.

Whether you agree with the verdict or not - no child should go missing and unreported like this again.

[scootebaby]

thanks NJ signed!

and agreed...no matter personal thoughts this bill should be signed,and hopefully it will get passed!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Heart

Whenever I hear/read about making parents more responsible/accountable, I consider how we live in one of the most family UNfriendly countries in the world, (so-called "family values," notwithstanding). With no universal child-care, afterschool or health care, no meaningful paid maternity/paternity leave, ever-shrinking access to free family planning and mental health care, not to mention lack of affordable housing and livable wages in many sectors, it's a wonder most parents do as well as they do.

This has nothing to do with this awful case, per se, but if we had these things in place, as many other devloped countries do, it would be a heck of a lot easier to weed out the truly pathological parent from the over-stressed, under-resourced parent.But these issues are complex, and require long-term solutions. It's easier to rant about a head-line grabbing case, whipped into a frenzy by the Nancy Graces of the tabloid media, and push through rightous and emotional legislation that may hurt innocent parents and their children.*

Heart

*not personal to anyone here, just my viewpoint.

Yes, very complex and right now the pittiful few and under-funded services in the US are under attack so that a very few can continue to pay less in taxes that support these services than the many.

When will the US get the priorities in line with needs and the things that can make a difference in child rearing and parent support? Being able to identify pathological parents is vital to stopping these kinds of things from happening.

There are counties right now that are cutting the school week to 4 days- and the US is falling below in education around the world.

I also am having trouble with the "mother blame" that goes on. No, I do not see the verdicts here as just at all and I can't even watch video of this little girl- haven't been able to since the start of this case. But, so much of what promotes these kinds of horrible actions in our country just never seem to get addressed.

[Toughy]

Seriously. Can we move beyond this case and get to some of the deeper issues?*

Thank you Heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You beat me to the punch. I truly sincerely worry when folks run about and sign on-line petitions for laws they haven't even read. GREAT care must be taken in how these laws are written so there are no unintended consequences. This is pure reaction and is not really going to help. Considered action makes far more sense.

----------
I still don't understand why folks think she deserved the death penalty when there are no facts as to who killed the child, how the child was killed and why it happened. Facts are needed in our system, not conjecture and emotion. Justice is never served when emotion and vigilanteism are disguised as fact.

edited to add: part of me wishes Casey would sue Nancy Grace for defamation, libel and slander. I hate Nancy Grace and all the pundits like her.....they do way more harm than good....

[Mr. Moon]

Originally Posted by Heart

A different perspective on "Caylee's Law:" I worked with a survivor of horrific intimate partner violence whose husband suffocated their 2-month old under a mattress and forced the mother to bury the child. Because they were poor immigrants the authorities didn't know or care about what was happening in this family. When the mother was finally able to flee the house in which she had been literally imprisoned and hop a bus to escape, she was so traumatized, she could barely speak. Eventually, with help, she alerted authorities who arrested her husband.

How do you think Casey's Law would affect this mother?

(And I hope no one thinks that prosecutors wouldn't use such a law against a poor battered immigrant victim of domestic violence -- because I can assure you they would. There are hundreds of such victims imprisoned all across the U.S. right now).

Heart

Thank you Heart! EXACTLY what I've been saying. Making blanket laws about this is very very dangerous. Typical Governmental move though. They do it about everything. Making blanket type laws is invasive to my personal rights! (I'm still traumatized about seat belt laws....like my flying body is such a lethal weapon).
Seriously though. There will be no "common sense" when it comes to this law. There will be a simple blanket law, you don't do it, yer arrested. They won't care about circumstances because you can't possibly think up all the circumstances that could arise to hold someone up from notifying them. Isn't anyone outraged by these type laws and how they could be used against us? too much government in my life I tell ya! Ugh! Calm down people, and stop the mob mentality! I know of two other situations that happened RIGHT NOW where children were killed by caretakers/parents. Happens all the time somewhere on this earth. It is sad but knee jerk reactions aren't helping!!

rant rant sorry!