Reclaiming Lesbian Pride

[AtLast]

I have not experienced the negative impact that many within our community has via lesbians- my guess is that my experience is very much like what Heart has stated.

Yet, I certainly get how and why so many here have struggled with the term due to their past experiences. Reclaiming and applying what we know as queers to lesbian seems really important to me. There is just not one kind of lesbian and it is about time that it reflects how diverse the world we live in really is.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I have not experienced the negative impact that many within our community has via lesbians- my guess is that my experience is very much like what Heart has stated.

Yet, I certainly get how and why so many here have struggled with the term due to their past experiences. Reclaiming and applying what we know as queers to lesbian seems really important to me. There is just not one kind of lesbian and it is about time that it reflects how diverse the world we live in really is.

I think that the difference is geographic. Even back in the 80's I actually remember seeing feminine and butch looking lesbians out in the bars in NYC and LA...while in TN everyone looked alike.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Jess,

This speaks to me on so many different levels. Of particular interest today is how you pointed out that some of us use the word lesbian in a narrowly focused way. Yet, in doing so, the intent is not to take away from others or to be in opposition to others. I would add in to not be in competition with others as well.

I have asked repeatedly in this thread what is so threatening about lesbians, who define very narrowly asking for their own space to talk....

....And, a couple of days ago, here comes this narrow definition lesbian, asking for narrow definition lesbian space to discuss narrow definition lesbian stuff.

Deja vu? Wounds run deep. You, inadvertantly pick at the scars, the rawness of the wounds find the light of day.

Did I connect the dots in the right order?

I'm still thinking about this "defining oneself in opposition" business....

Let's pluck out the term opposition from that statement and drop in the word, contrast.... As in, F/W IDed butches stand in contrast to male IDed butches - not in how we look, necessarily, but in how we identify. (I look mega butch - whatever that means - and, so what?)

Is there something about contrasting identities that some find unsettling, even as they are questioning our willingness to embrace diversity?

Why proffer veiled accusations about "opposition" and "oppression" in this thread?

Why would "we" experience a need for a thread about reclaiming lesbian pride if "we" weren't already painfully aware of "opposition", "oppression"?

For me, the answer to these questions lies in Feminism and in the Civil Rights Movement.... Here's an article by Marilyn Frye that offers insight.



OPPRESSION and the use of definition
by Marilyn Frye

"It is a fundamental claim of feminism that women are oppressed. The word "oppression" is a strong word. It repels and attracts. It is dangerous and dangerously fashionable and endangered. It is much misused, and sometimes not innocently.

The statement that women are oppressed is frequently met with the claim that men are oppressed too. We hear that oppressing is oppressive to those who oppress as well as those they oppress. Some men cite as evidence of their oppression their much-advertised inability to cry. It is tough, we are told, to be masculine. When the stresses and frustrations of being a man are cited as evidence that oppressors are oppressed by their oppressing, the word "oppression" is being stretched to meaninglessness; it is treated as though its scope includes any and all human experience of limitation or suffering, no matter the cause, degree or consequence. Once such usage has been put over on us, then if ever we deny that any person or group is oppressed, [Chazz says: Or fail, to explicitly say as much, every time we open our mouths] we seem to imply that we think they never suffer and have no feelings. We are accused of insensitivity; even of bigotry. For women, such accusation is particularly intimidating, since sensitivity is one of the few virtues that has been assigned to us. If we are found insensitive, we may fear we have no redeeming traits at all and perhaps are not real women. Thus are we silenced before we begin: the name of our situation drained of meaning and our guilt mechanisms tripped.

....The boundary that sets apart women’s sphere is maintained and promoted by men generally for the benefit of men generally, and men generally do benefit from its existence, even the man who bumps into it and complains of the inconvenience...."


READ THE ARTICLE IN ITS ENTIRETY AT: http://zinelibrary.info/files/Frye.pdf

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Chazz

I'm still thinking about this "defining oneself in opposition" business....

Let's pluck out the term opposition from that statement and drop in the word, contrast.... As in, F/W IDed butches stand in contrast to male IDed butches - not in how we look, necessarily, but in how we identify. (I look mega butch - whatever that means - and, so what?)

Is there something about contrasting identities that some find unsettling, even as they are questioning our willingness to embrace diversity?

Why proffer veiled accusations about "opposition" and "oppression" in this thread?

Why would "we" experience a need for a thread about reclaiming lesbian pride if "we" weren't already painfully aware of "opposition", "oppression"?

I really like this idea of using "contrast" for a lot of reasons. To me, it seems to be a less threatening, more soothing word. It fits the intent of this discussion better. And, it feels more like a bridge to others.

Contrast implies more of a cooperative stance of equals.

Opposition/oppression implies more of a divisive, defensive stance of competitors.

Diversity is about contrasting parts of a whole.

Chazz, did I get my semiotics right?

Words, how we use them or misuse them, have profound effects on both the message sent and the message received. Is good to have reminders to choose our words carefully.

[Kobi]

A lot of good stuff is coming out of this discussion. I have been looking for themes that might benefit from having their own space to ferret stuff out a little more.

One of those themes was butch lesbians reconciling with the female/woman part of themselves.

There is now a thread called Lesbian Butches - Coming home to ourselves. Feel free to check it out.