Click.... when we knew we were feminists

Violette · 08-21-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Growing up I followed in the footsteps of my mother, the man brings home the bacon, you're a housewife, he has the last say, he's right, you're wrong...that's the kind of attitude that got me into an abusive marriage. I will not detail the horrors of that marraige here but I ended up with PTSD from it, have cut my wrists over that and when I've seen my dad and mom get into fights, been in the psych unit 10 (yes 10) times because of this shit. *CLICK*

I've been in therapy for over three years now and there ain't NO man gonna tell this girl what's what! I don't care if you're my father or a stranger on the street I WILL stand up to you, whether for me, or another woman I see. I don't play! Whoa...I had to take a break for a second there, I got all worked up and angry again; had to watch the birds to calm down.

Well done, you!! You are walking a brave walk!

*Anya* · 08-21-2011, 01:59 PM

I had a couple of half-clicks before the full-click.

Never made sense to me as the girl child that I had to cook dinners, set the table, wash dishes, clean the house, wash the clothes, iron and my two brothers only had the take the garbage out!

Then, I got married to escape prison life only to join another. My ex-husband wanted me to wash & iron all his dress/casual shirts and hang them according to color in his closet. I asked why? Answer: "that's your job as my wife".

One day I went to the library and found a book called: "Sisterhood is Powerful". Hello!

I joined NOW, started holding Consciousness Raising groups in my livingroom, refused to accept his abuse (physical & mental) and the full-click turned in my head. Once you see-you can never unsee but nor would I ever want to be without sight again either.

Julie · 08-21-2011, 02:12 PM

This topic has given me much thought about how I am as a feminist and how I walk through my world. On a day to day basis, I walk among men and women. I defer to no one. I know who I am and I also know the power I wield in my world. I am a mother, who has raised 3 sons to be feminist and should they ever objectify a woman or treat her less than… I would be filled with shame.

Yet, here I am. I have had these conversations with many of my Femme sisters. Those same sisters who are strong and powerful women…. Feminist. With some of these sisters of mine, I share a similar craving. A place where I can let go of all the power I myself have created. A place where I can in fact submit and yes, be objectified by that beautiful masculine energy. To be with a partner who would never think of letting me take the garbage out – the same garbage I would take out, if I were alone.

Am I less of a feminist, when I expect my partner to fill the gas tank? Or to stand when I leave the table. To open the doors for me, and step aside as I walk in? Am I less of a feminist because I crave to dress in the most sexualizing way I can, knowing it will in fact create the exact essence I am wanting? That I might use my body to induce arousal, in a most feminizing way? I am using my body and my most seductive ways to create this.

It’s interesting to me. To be a woman who has created a great power around her, yet to be the same woman who craves one person to give it all to. To be objectified in the most delicious manner!

Is it possible to be both? (for me, I know the answer).

Am I a feminist when I know how to use my body, to sometimes get what I want? To use my wiles and manipulation… Of course, I am not fooling anyone. Those who partner with me, know I wish to be objectified. However, does this change who I am and how I demand equality and respect?

Thank you Kobi – This is an interesting conversation – One of which has given me great thought. I am curious as to how others feel. Are women in our community considered less than, because of how we might in fact choose to wear that apron with nothing on under it… While we remove the meatloaf from the oven and serve another.

BullDog · 08-21-2011, 02:50 PM

Great topic and great posts. I think my feminism really started in 1969 when the astronauts landed on the moon. It's funny because I was just talking about this earlier on the phone today. I can still remember watching that on a small black and white tv when I was 7 years old. I really wanted to be an astronaut. I asked my Dad (who is in no way, shape or form a feminist) if girls could be astronauts. He said yes. That made me happy and I continued to drink Tang and eat space food snacks and dream of being an astronaut, a cowboy, a writer and working at an ice cream parlor.

I grew up in a very traditional household where my mother was a housewife and father was the breadwinner and was a misogynist. However I also was given trucks instead of dolls when I asked for them, and allowed to be a tomboy and encouraged and praised for doing well in school. I grew up thinking girls could be whatever they wanted to be- girls and women having no limitations on who they are or can be- to me that is the epitome of feminism.

In response to what Julie wrote, I consider myself a feminist Dom so I certainly think a submissive woman can be a feminist and powerful as well. To me the energy exchange is one of empowerment. I have deep respect for submissives. I think it takes great strength, among other qualities, to be one. A submissive woman can be a tender hearted baby girl, a sensual, sexy woman who knows how to work her femininity to get what she wants, have a deep desire to submit and serve, and at the same time be a kick ass professional woman, mother who has raised children, and someone people constantly turn to for advice. I think a feminist submissive certainly knows the difference between dominant and domineering and makes her choice accordingly.

princessbelle · 08-21-2011, 03:34 PM

What a great topic Kobi!!! Great reading here and so inspiring!!!

My growing up life was like many here, due to our age i suppose. My dad was head of household but my mom always worked. She then had to keep house, take care of me and my brother as well. She had relatively no help at all from my Dad. It was just how it was in many households back then.

I can remember one of the first things that drove me crazy was the mail. The mail would come addressed to Mr and Mrs. so and so and had my dad's first name and our last name. Also, when she would talk to someone she was say i'm Mrs. (insert my dad's first name) then our last name. I can remember arguing with my mom about it when i was around 10. "Why do you do that". "Where is your identity". "Use your name". It used to drive me insane!!!!!

I've never once thought that being a woman, i should not do anything i've wanted. Not sure that came from my family though. I think it came from within me somewhere deep.

As far as being submissive and being a feminist; Just as Bulldog and Julie have said, it takes great strength to give someone your submission. If it is ever done through weakness i don't see how it would work at all. Also, the difference is...it is my CHOICE. I CHOOSE to do this, when i do it. It is not taken from me. Therefore i keep my feminist identity of power, intelligence, strength, wisdom, capabilities, and professionalism right along with me on my path as a submissive.

It's a wild ride and a great journey....

SecretAgentMa'am · 08-21-2011, 04:43 PM

I'm not sure I actually have a Click moment. If I do, I can't think of it. I was raised in a very religious place (Bountiful, UT - about 98% Mormon), and my mom was devout in many ways, but she never really fit the mold that I can remember. She divorced my father when I was 5 and she was still pregnant with my little sister. The church leaders told her that the divorce was entirely her fault, that my dad wouldn't cheat or hit her if she'd just be a better wife, she brought it on herself. She never believed them. One of my earliest memories was when a very, very restrictive abortion bill was before the state legislature, and my mom took me with her to the protest rally at the capitol. I think I was 6 or 7 at the time. I got a lot of conflicting messages growing up. At home, mom raised me to be a socially conscious feminist. At school and church, I got the standard messages about getting married and having babies, wives submitting to their husbands, temple marriage being the only valid choice for women, women existing to serve men. I firmly believe that it doesn't matter what kids are taught in the wider world, what they learn at home is what sticks.

nycfem · 08-21-2011, 04:55 PM

I grew up with my dad dominating my mom (and not in the fun way). I used to have panic attacks as I listened to him control her. When I was in high school in suburban Ohio, I found a book in my school library, a massive anthology called "Radical Feminism" published in 1973 (the year after I was born). Thank Goddess for that because it became my Bible! I was particularly intrigued by the essays on Radical Lesbianism Feminism. That is absolutely when I became a feminist, and I began seeking out as much feminist lesbian literature as I could at our local women's/lesbian bookstore, in the "bad" part of town, a wonderful place that no longer exists called "Crazy Ladies."

When I got to college, I remember I'd even introduce myself by saying, "I'm Jennifer, and I'm a radical lesbian feminist." I was fiercely taken by this whole way of thinking and being that was so different than what I saw in my house, my school, and in my community growing up. In college I set up an independent study with a lesbian feminist professor on Lesbian Separatism. I read as much as I could about wimmin's land and the whole radically matriarchal way of life. I was so empowered by what felt like wholly undiluted feminism.

As I got older, I parted ways with a number of aspects of 1970's radical lesbian feminism, particularly with separatism. Butch/Femme was not universally accepted (though it was in some circles), nor was BDSM or bisexuality or trans politics. Because of this, separatist politics became much too narrow for me to fully subscribe to, but I am still thankful for what I learned in this movement. 1970's radical lesbian feminism opened up a whole world to me, and still informs my perspective to this day.

The_Lady_Snow · 08-21-2011, 05:03 PM

OMG Jennifer I love loved Crazy Ladies!!! I bartended a few times for Donna @ Bullfishes and hung out at The Serpent!!!

Upstairs Crazy Ladies had ledgers filled with tri-state lesbian herstory!!!

Small world it is we live in!

Kätzchen · 08-21-2011, 06:07 PM

I want to say that I must have been born into feminist ways because there are a cajillion family photographs capturing my look of objecting to male power, control and privilige in my own family.

It wasn't until I learned in covert ways about a lesbian couple - not out, back in the days of the early 60s: they both taught at a private college in a nearby town where our family worshipped together in the same church and we used to go help them take care of their property. Somehow, both women must have identified me as being 'family'. They weren't out because it would have cost them their ability to earn a living and damage their hard-won reputation as professors. It wasn't until much later in life when one of the women (having survived the death of her long time lover and partner) entered into a facility where my mother was a director of nursing. My mother was giving me a tour of the facility and she was a resident of that nursing home (this was years ago) and made the comment that she (the woman we knew for years) would not recognize me, but she did! She took me aside and "never give up your power, ever."

I'll never forget her or her partner who nurtured me privately for years.

08-21-2011, 01:59 PM	#2
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,445 Times in 7,285 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	I had a couple of half-clicks before the full-click. Never made sense to me as the girl child that I had to cook dinners, set the table, wash dishes, clean the house, wash the clothes, iron and my two brothers only had the take the garbage out! Then, I got married to escape prison life only to join another. My ex-husband wanted me to wash & iron all his dress/casual shirts and hang them according to color in his closet. I asked why? Answer: "that's your job as my wife". One day I went to the library and found a book called: "Sisterhood is Powerful". Hello! I joined NOW, started holding Consciousness Raising groups in my livingroom, refused to accept his abuse (physical & mental) and the full-click turned in my head. Once you see-you can never unsee but nor would I ever want to be without sight again either. __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner

08-21-2011, 02:12 PM	#3
Julie Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Angel * Femme * Lesbian * Girl * Woman * Slut * Bitch * Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: No longer a Virgin Bride to Dreamer ~ May 17th, 2014 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New York Posts: 4,674 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,676 Thanked 18,160 Times in 3,633 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	This topic has given me much thought about how I am as a feminist and how I walk through my world. On a day to day basis, I walk among men and women. I defer to no one. I know who I am and I also know the power I wield in my world. I am a mother, who has raised 3 sons to be feminist and should they ever objectify a woman or treat her less than… I would be filled with shame. Yet, here I am. I have had these conversations with many of my Femme sisters. Those same sisters who are strong and powerful women…. Feminist. With some of these sisters of mine, I share a similar craving. A place where I can let go of all the power I myself have created. A place where I can in fact submit and yes, be objectified by that beautiful masculine energy. To be with a partner who would never think of letting me take the garbage out – the same garbage I would take out, if I were alone. Am I less of a feminist, when I expect my partner to fill the gas tank? Or to stand when I leave the table. To open the doors for me, and step aside as I walk in? Am I less of a feminist because I crave to dress in the most sexualizing way I can, knowing it will in fact create the exact essence I am wanting? That I might use my body to induce arousal, in a most feminizing way? I am using my body and my most seductive ways to create this. It’s interesting to me. To be a woman who has created a great power around her, yet to be the same woman who craves one person to give it all to. To be objectified in the most delicious manner! Is it possible to be both? (for me, I know the answer). Am I a feminist when I know how to use my body, to sometimes get what I want? To use my wiles and manipulation… Of course, I am not fooling anyone. Those who partner with me, know I wish to be objectified. However, does this change who I am and how I demand equality and respect? Thank you Kobi – This is an interesting conversation – One of which has given me great thought. I am curious as to how others feel. Are women in our community considered less than, because of how we might in fact choose to wear that apron with nothing on under it… While we remove the meatloaf from the oven and serve another. __________________ “Sometimes only one person is missing and the whole world seems depopulated.” ~ Alphonse de Lamartine - 1790-1869 http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps4d9fb6c0.jpg I Love You ~ I Love Us May 17, 2014

08-21-2011, 02:50 PM	#4
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Great topic and great posts. I think my feminism really started in 1969 when the astronauts landed on the moon. It's funny because I was just talking about this earlier on the phone today. I can still remember watching that on a small black and white tv when I was 7 years old. I really wanted to be an astronaut. I asked my Dad (who is in no way, shape or form a feminist) if girls could be astronauts. He said yes. That made me happy and I continued to drink Tang and eat space food snacks and dream of being an astronaut, a cowboy, a writer and working at an ice cream parlor. I grew up in a very traditional household where my mother was a housewife and father was the breadwinner and was a misogynist. However I also was given trucks instead of dolls when I asked for them, and allowed to be a tomboy and encouraged and praised for doing well in school. I grew up thinking girls could be whatever they wanted to be- girls and women having no limitations on who they are or can be- to me that is the epitome of feminism. In response to what Julie wrote, I consider myself a feminist Dom so I certainly think a submissive woman can be a feminist and powerful as well. To me the energy exchange is one of empowerment. I have deep respect for submissives. I think it takes great strength, among other qualities, to be one. A submissive woman can be a tender hearted baby girl, a sensual, sexy woman who knows how to work her femininity to get what she wants, have a deep desire to submit and serve, and at the same time be a kick ass professional woman, mother who has raised children, and someone people constantly turn to for advice. I think a feminist submissive certainly knows the difference between dominant and domineering and makes her choice accordingly. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

08-21-2011, 03:34 PM	#5
princessbelle Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: femme ones Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,100 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,380 Thanked 30,496 Times in 5,198 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	What a great topic Kobi!!! Great reading here and so inspiring!!! My growing up life was like many here, due to our age i suppose. My dad was head of household but my mom always worked. She then had to keep house, take care of me and my brother as well. She had relatively no help at all from my Dad. It was just how it was in many households back then. I can remember one of the first things that drove me crazy was the mail. The mail would come addressed to Mr and Mrs. so and so and had my dad's first name and our last name. Also, when she would talk to someone she was say i'm Mrs. (insert my dad's first name) then our last name. I can remember arguing with my mom about it when i was around 10. "Why do you do that". "Where is your identity". "Use your name". It used to drive me insane!!!!! I've never once thought that being a woman, i should not do anything i've wanted. Not sure that came from my family though. I think it came from within me somewhere deep. As far as being submissive and being a feminist; Just as Bulldog and Julie have said, it takes great strength to give someone your submission. If it is ever done through weakness i don't see how it would work at all. Also, the difference is...it is my CHOICE. I CHOOSE to do this, when i do it. It is not taken from me. Therefore i keep my feminist identity of power, intelligence, strength, wisdom, capabilities, and professionalism right along with me on my path as a submissive. It's a wild ride and a great journey.... __________________ ~ I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. ~ Maya Angelou

08-21-2011, 04:43 PM	#6
SecretAgentMa'am Member How Do You Identify?: Redheaded Bellydancing Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Very married Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 215 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 84 Thanked 778 Times in 171 Posts Rep Power: 15100837	I'm not sure I actually have a Click moment. If I do, I can't think of it. I was raised in a very religious place (Bountiful, UT - about 98% Mormon), and my mom was devout in many ways, but she never really fit the mold that I can remember. She divorced my father when I was 5 and she was still pregnant with my little sister. The church leaders told her that the divorce was entirely her fault, that my dad wouldn't cheat or hit her if she'd just be a better wife, she brought it on herself. She never believed them. One of my earliest memories was when a very, very restrictive abortion bill was before the state legislature, and my mom took me with her to the protest rally at the capitol. I think I was 6 or 7 at the time. I got a lot of conflicting messages growing up. At home, mom raised me to be a socially conscious feminist. At school and church, I got the standard messages about getting married and having babies, wives submitting to their husbands, temple marriage being the only valid choice for women, women existing to serve men. I firmly believe that it doesn't matter what kids are taught in the wider world, what they learn at home is what sticks. __________________ Change the voices in your head Make them like you instead

08-21-2011, 04:55 PM	#7
nycfem Moderator How Do You Identify?: femme sub Preferred Pronoun?: Baby Grrl Relationship Status: Attached Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 6,795 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 52,988 Thanked 21,426 Times in 5,101 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I grew up with my dad dominating my mom (and not in the fun way). I used to have panic attacks as I listened to him control her. When I was in high school in suburban Ohio, I found a book in my school library, a massive anthology called "Radical Feminism" published in 1973 (the year after I was born). Thank Goddess for that because it became my Bible! I was particularly intrigued by the essays on Radical Lesbianism Feminism. That is absolutely when I became a feminist, and I began seeking out as much feminist lesbian literature as I could at our local women's/lesbian bookstore, in the "bad" part of town, a wonderful place that no longer exists called "Crazy Ladies." When I got to college, I remember I'd even introduce myself by saying, "I'm Jennifer, and I'm a radical lesbian feminist." I was fiercely taken by this whole way of thinking and being that was so different than what I saw in my house, my school, and in my community growing up. In college I set up an independent study with a lesbian feminist professor on Lesbian Separatism. I read as much as I could about wimmin's land and the whole radically matriarchal way of life. I was so empowered by what felt like wholly undiluted feminism. As I got older, I parted ways with a number of aspects of 1970's radical lesbian feminism, particularly with separatism. Butch/Femme was not universally accepted (though it was in some circles), nor was BDSM or bisexuality or trans politics. Because of this, separatist politics became much too narrow for me to fully subscribe to, but I am still thankful for what I learned in this movement. 1970's radical lesbian feminism opened up a whole world to me, and still informs my perspective to this day.

08-21-2011, 05:03 PM	#8
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,670 Posts Rep Power: 21474875	Memories, in the corner.., OMG Jennifer I love loved Crazy Ladies!!! I bartended a few times for Donna @ Bullfishes and hung out at The Serpent!!! Upstairs Crazy Ladies had ledgers filled with tri-state lesbian herstory!!! Small world it is we live in! __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

08-21-2011, 06:07 PM	#9
Kätzchen Member How Do You Identify?: As a very feminine woman. Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near smoke signals in the sky. Posts: 16,211 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,444 Thanked 33,613 Times in 10,708 Posts Rep Power: 21474868	Summer of 1969 I want to say that I must have been born into feminist ways because there are a cajillion family photographs capturing my look of objecting to male power, control and privilige in my own family. It wasn't until I learned in covert ways about a lesbian couple - not out, back in the days of the early 60s: they both taught at a private college in a nearby town where our family worshipped together in the same church and we used to go help them take care of their property. Somehow, both women must have identified me as being 'family'. They weren't out because it would have cost them their ability to earn a living and damage their hard-won reputation as professors. It wasn't until much later in life when one of the women (having survived the death of her long time lover and partner) entered into a facility where my mother was a director of nursing. My mother was giving me a tour of the facility and she was a resident of that nursing home (this was years ago) and made the comment that she (the woman we knew for years) would not recognize me, but she did! She took me aside and "never give up your power, ever." I'll never forget her or her partner who nurtured me privately for years.