Femme Led Relationships and Trans/Butch/Femme Bottoms

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Gentle Tiger

Bumping this thread because the discussion is powerful. I believe it was Dreadgeek who started a thread about how to move forward as a community. I think having these types of discussions is one way. So I hope it continues.

If you have questions or comments, why not enhance the discussion?

[Gentle Tiger]

Originally Posted by Sachita

If you have questions or comments, why not enhance the discussion?

All in due time Sachita. Process quite a bit. And thank you for the prompting to do so.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I often wonder why butch/trans bottoms are viewed as less than by people? Why is surrendering to a woman so hard to swallow? Yet when girl does to anyone masculine or male id'd or aesthetically looks masculine it's a treasure..

[Gentle Tiger]

I've been thinking a lot about this subject. More questions have come to mind than answers. And I have been on a journey of self discovery as of late. Hence, the slowness to post in this thread. I like to think things through before speaking.

One question that I have is why it is that when it comes to discussing Femme led relationships the discussion can't stay on that topic. Why is it that BDSM, D/S, M/S, what the butch/trans needs, etc. always seems to be pushed to the top? It's like we just can't handle a Femme being in charge. The conversations gets clouded with a bunch of noise, kind of like when there is a discussion about a woman being president or a woman of color being on the Supreme Court. We can't talk about her qualities, and accomplishments. It seems the same here. This isn't the first thread dealing with this topic but the results are frequently the same.

We say we love femmes. We adore them. And yet, we can't stay focused when comes to her being the one that the butch/transman follows. Even in 2011, most conversations still spin around the butch/transman being in charge and the sweet, delicate femme being led and protected by them. Please!

The Femme-Butch dance is just as powerful and beautiful as the Butch-Femme dance. Why does it have to fit inside someone's blasted box? The older I get the more I hate boxes and labels. And I'm old (115)! lol We resent, scream and are ready to challenge anyone when forced by the straight world to conform to a particular box and label. Yet we're quick to judge, insult, disrespect those who don't neatly conform to the boxes that some group defined within the LGBT world. Not all femmes can be in charge inside of the relationship. Why? Because some femmes are followers. They need to follow. That makes them happy. But the reverse is also true. Not all femmes can be followers. Why? Because they are natural born leaders. They must be in charge. Following for too long will make them nuts with a few of my friends, grouchy. You can't have two heads. Someone has to lead and someone has to follow. Otherwise there is no dance no matter what kind of relationship you're talking about. I know, I know. There is sharing within a relationship. Decisions are made together. But even then, someone is leading the discussion.

I think somewhere along the line whether consciously or unconsciously oppressed people bring some of the hetero foolishness into their relationships. And I think we as a community at times still think that the butch/transman has to be like the caveman who drags the woman by the hair into the cave, must be the provider, blah, blah, blah. Now I know some will say this is not true. But isn't it? Think about how Femmes are portrayed. I say this based on things that I read these days and conversations I hear. Why can't the Femme be the one dragging the butch/transman by the hair, calling the shots, and being the boss? Well she couldn't drag me by the hair because I have no hair. But I digress. Those who think that a butch/transman is less than because they are able to let a Femme lead in my opinion have bought into the lie that the male/masculine energy (whatever form) must be in charge. In the straight world a man is not a real man if people see that he lets the woman wear the proverbial pants. And yet most honest men will admit the wife is the boss. She calls the shots. And more often than not I hear butches and transmen admitting that their wife, girlfriend, lady friend or whatever descriptor they use runs the show. So what's the problem. We still haven't let go of the traditional mentality - male means being first and in charge.

A Femme led relationship in my opinion is not about being a top, bottom or flipping. I've always despised the term flipping. I am not a pancake for crying out loud! Ok, back to the subject. It 's about how people are wired. And doing what it takes to dance with joy. I am attracted to and need a strong, brilliant, sexy Femme for many reasons. And understanding that, I also know that if she has the qualities I am looking for she will be in charge. That's part of the dance between she and I. That will not take away from who I am, what I bring to the table, and what I need while at the table. I know this will put me in a less than position in the minds of some. And quite frankly I don't give a flying ****. Ahem! I'm back.

I am a complicated transman. I am strong person. I am a Daddy. I am a boy. I am a leader. And I have no problem with a Femme calling the shots. There are, however, things that need to be in place in order for me to relax and follow her lead. I will not go into them here since I am not the subject of this thread. I have to say this was not always my position. But growing spiritually and just plain growing up has helped me shed a lot of layers and a lot of junk that has kept me from being who I wish to be and enjoying what I wish to enjoy.

Thank you Weatherboi for starting this thread. You have played a part in my journey. So thank you my brother!

[Gentle Tiger]

Yes! Yes! Yes June!
This is exactly what I mean. Thank you!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by June

In this Femme led relationship, I am very aware that I must earn the right to be in charge of the things that are important to me, and for us as a couple. I have not always been good at negotiating rather than just assuming and taking without giving as much back to her -- But it is a journey and a process to get both what you want and need out of any relationship, and I look at it very much as a Free Will deal.

When she goes out to the car for the ninth time to get something, or brings me something to drink or does any of the dozens of things I ask her to, it has to be because she is getting something out of it. Delicious meals, a pretty house, a nice garden, a tidy non-chaotic environment, reciprocal love, the way I look at her from across the room that lets her know even after all this time, she's still the one.

Awwwwww.

well said June!

when people talk about exchange of power I wonder if they realize the full extent of it or how complex it can become. Wanton boi is very comfortable being submissive, even turned on by it but I also reinforce and nurture that. Although hy is the one fetching things, cleaning, waiting on my hand and foot, I often show hym my appreciation. I am providing a wonderful home, good healthy food and an environment for hym to grow. There's a big price to be with me but I also offer a lot. Hy will tell you that hy feels safe, loved and cherished. Even as friends I give this to hym.

Maybe its just my perception but I don't see butch needs being a priority. Feminine energy trumps masculine in my world. A seductive and willful femme knows exactly how to get what she wants. She doesn't need to do this with force. Women are in control in so many ways even if she's on her knees. It's a fact.

GT I do know what your saying and it may appear that way but I also know, having been in BF culture many many moons, that plenty of femmes rule the roost so to speak. In fact I think femme relationships are pretty common.

As an spiritually evolved woman I have many aspects to me. This includes a sexually passive slut, goddess bitch diva, little girl, brat, seductress, mommy and more. They can surface at any time and demand their space. I allow them to express themselves and nurture my relationships to enjoy them. I don't need to be Mistress/Goddess/alpha all the time, although it does encompass the base essence of me and always present to some degree.