Lawsuit asks state to pay for inmate's sex-change operation- What do you think?

[Breathless]

This is a very interesting debate. My opinion is, in regards to continuing hormone therapy, absolutely. If the decision was made prior to being convicted, and treatments were started prior, then it is an issue of continuing medical care. To make the decision to start while in prison, I don't think so. If someone was lets say to have rhinoplasty prior to being incarcerated would it not be humane to have their last check up to removed stitches? I have to ask, if these people were 'free' who would pay for their surgery then in the state of California? In my understanding, it is the individual, and they would have to save up substantial money to afford the surgery, I think the same person should be responsible for the cost despite being in prison. Now taking into consideration the fact that they are not able to go out into the community and seek consultations with different dr.'s, that is where I think the prison needs to be of assistance. Providing the options, however not footing the bill.
On another note, if you have made your declaration as being transgendered, and are being recognized as male, or female, then the option of which jail you wish to reside is not your choice. I don't feel that it is right for someone to say.. yes I am a woman, recognize me as such, but please just leave me in the men’s prison. All or nothing. Choose your battles wisely.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Breathless

This is a very interesting debate. My opinion is, in regards to continuing hormone therapy, absolutely. If the decision was made prior to being convicted, and treatments were started prior, then it is an issue of continuing medical care. To make the decision to start while in prison, I don't think so. If someone was lets say to have rhinoplasty prior to being incarcerated would it not be humane to have their last check up to removed stitches?

I really dislike these comparisons. Do you see the difference between rhinoplasty and SRS? SRS isn't for cosmetic purposes.

I have to ask, if these people were 'free' who would pay for their surgery then in the state of California? In my understanding, it is the individual, and they would have to save up substantial money to afford the surgery, I think the same person should be responsible for the cost despite being in prison. Now taking into consideration the fact that they are not able to go out into the community and seek consultations with different dr.'s, that is where I think the prison needs to be of assistance. Providing the options, however not footing the bill.

To me this comes down to the US moving toward public healthcare, and if having the state pay for SRS for trans inmates is a step in t hat direction, I don't see the problem. In Ontario, OHIP pays for SRS for those who seek a year's worth of counseling, and I'm not sure I see the problem with that. While it's not perfect (to require counseling, imo, is wrong), it shows a positive step and changing attitudes within the medical community wherein they've begun to see the importance of SRS to the basic health needs of trans individuals.

On another note, if you have made your declaration as being transgendered, and are being recognized as male, or female, then the option of which jail you wish to reside is not your choice. I don't feel that it is right for someone to say.. yes I am a woman, recognize me as such, but please just leave me in the men’s prison. All or nothing. Choose your battles wisely.

I've known a few transfolks who have been incarcerated in Ontario prisons. You don't get to choose which prison they put you in. I've known people who start off in a male prison, get shifted over to a female prison and back and forth again. Additionally, they were treated very poorly and humiliated by the guards, placed in solitary confinement away from the general population without the basic necessities (warmth, proper food, the courtesy of being told which prison they're in etc.) The prison system, at least over here (and seems to be the same in US), does not seem to know how to deal with trans inmates, and inmates have very little control over where they go. I think it's very easy for someone who isn't trans or who isn't a trans inmate to say "all or nothing," but when you're in the actual situation with your own well-being in mind (given that nobody else seems to have it in mind), and realizing that you have very little control over your own situation, it's an entirely different ball game.

[Chancie]

I gotta say, I knew I would be sorry if I reread this thread.

Some of you are very politically conservative.

I certainly don't know as much as other members here about single payer health care

But I have to ask

In how many other so called civilized countries do people in need of medical care have to go without?

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Chancie

I gotta say, I knew I would be sorry if I reread this thread.

Some of you are very politically conservative.

I certainly don't know as much as other members here about single payer health care

But I have to ask

In how many other so called civilized countries do people in need of medical care have to go without?

If I am politically "conservative" on this one- so be it, I am liberal, progressive, conservative and moderate when I look at issues depending on what is represented. This prisoner should get usual and customary health care such as annual physicals and if she developed a life threatening condition such as cancer, of course she should get medical care. Again, as in my first post, most trans people I know struggle to save for surgeries as well as hormone treatment- as well as foot the bill for counseling that they are required to have. Until or unless EVERY transgendered person is covered for medical care under a health plan in the US, I cannot support my state paying for this prisoner's. Also, the educational system in CA is a mess and in need of funds and in this Tea Party (yes, they are here in CA, too) environment, we are facing more cuts in education- even under a Democratic govenor.

I do and have supported single payer universal health care in the US for many years. So save the political stance bashing. I was quite upset with Obama not pushing for a public option during the health care reform act debate and votes- especially since at that time there was a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress.

This prisoner will be kept as safe as any other one in this facility and deserves no more than the other inmates. CA prisons provide fairly healthcare including eye care and dental. We have paid for organ transplants for prisoners as well.

Now, if you want to talk about services for minors that are in the criminal system that are serving for non-violent offenses and going through gender identity crises- I would support not only services within the system, but on going work for a time when released so that they are hooked up with support services and get care. I feel strongly that minors within our criminal justice systems could be "rehabilitated" and we do not deal effectively with how we could get them in more positive directions outside of our systems.

[Breathless]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I really dislike these comparisons. Do you see the difference between rhinoplasty and SRS? SRS isn't for cosmetic purposes.

It was not meant as a comparison but more as a medical treatment that should be continued once started. I meant no insult what so ever in saying that, as I am one of the biggest supporters when it somes to SRS.
To me this comes down to the US moving toward public healthcare, and if having the state pay for SRS for trans inmates is a step in t hat direction, I don't see the problem. In Ontario, OHIP pays for SRS for those who seek a year's worth of counseling, and I'm not sure I see the problem with that. While it's not perfect (to require counseling, imo, is wrong), it shows a positive step and changing attitudes within the medical community wherein they've begun to see the importance of SRS to the basic health needs of trans individuals.

I agree with you on this, I live in Ontario. However this case is not in Canada, it is in a state that does not cover the bill for the average person. Everyone else has to pay for it, why should someone who is in prision get better treatment then then tax paying working folk?I have huge issues with how we treat our criminals, and we treat our seniors like shit. Where is the fairness in that?

I've known a few transfolks who have been incarcerated in Ontario prisons. You don't get to choose which prison they put you in. I've known people who start off in a male prison, get shifted over to a female prison and back and forth again. Additionally, they were treated very poorly and humiliated by the guards, placed in solitary confinement away from the general population without the basic necessities (warmth, proper food, the courtesy of being told which prison they're in etc.) The prison system, at least over here (and seems to be the same in US), does not seem to know how to deal with trans inmates, and inmates have very little control over where they go. I think it's very easy for someone who isn't trans or who isn't a trans inmate to say "all or nothing," but when you're in the actual situation with your own well-being in mind (given that nobody else seems to have it in mind), and realizing that you have very little control over your own situation, it's an entirely different ball game.

I don't have to be trans to understand how it feels, I have loved someone with all my heart that is. To love someone that much, is to feel their pain, in the most helpless of ways. This is a human rights issue, and should be addressed as such. In the most severe of fashion. I agree that there is definately a lack of information and compassion for our transfolk in the prisions, and it is an absolute shame that there are still so many that act with this much hate towards those of which they do not understand. My all of nothing comment comes from the simple fact that in these situations, I feel that it is sometimes taken advantage of. In the article, there was someone quoted saying that she didn't want to move prisions because she had met partner and been together for 2 years, in my opinion, if you identify as a specific gender, you should be respected on that, however, all the way. I am by no means suggesting that these people be subjected to rape and beatings.