Science and Exploration

JAGG · 09-26-2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Jagg:

I'll try to do my very best on this one. The answer to both questions require a little bit of background on what a neutrino is and why whether or not they can exceed the speed of light is an interesting question.

So neutrinos are very small, *very* weakly interacting subatomic particles. They are the result of atomic decay (called beta decay) and are electrically neutral. They are weakly interacting because the two forces that will act on neutrinos are either very weak or very short-range. The first is weak nuclear force which is responsible for atomic decay. It is very short-range falling off to nothing pretty much outside of the range of the nucleus of an atom. The other is gravity which is long range but very weak (gravity seems strong because gravity is caused by mass and the Earth has a LOT of mass but gravity is the weakest of the four foces). How rarely do neutrinos interact with other matter? A neutrino from the sun could pass through the the Earth without *ever* interacting with another particle. This would be true even if the Earth were solid lead and lead is very dense (which is why it's used for shielding)!

The other really interesting thing is that neutrinos have very little mass while not being completely massless. The mass of a neutrino is so small that it is measured in terms of its energy. It is 50 meV (megaelectron volts). To give you an idea of just how small a number this is equivalent to this portion of a gallon of gasoline 0.0000000000000000000607991. (Recall that Einstein demonstrated that you can convert energy to mass) The reason why it is interesting is that if the neutrino were precisely massless it would always travel the speed of light (because anything with zero mass will travel the speed of light). Since the neutrino appears to have a very small, but non-zero mass, this means it can accelerate toward but can never exceed the speed of light.

This is a consequence of the equation e=mc^2 because c^2 is the speed of light (c) squared (^2). Since the speed of light in vacuum is 186,282 miles per second that number squared is huge! To accelerate *anything* with mass to within a sizable portion of c would take infinite energy. Since infinite energy isn't to be had in a finite universe nothing with mass can accelerate beyond the speed of light.

Which takes us to the recent experiment and what it might mean. So, IF it turns out that these neutrinos were accelerated beyond the speed of light then that means that Einstein's special theory of relativity will have to be revised. That said, it's simply too early to tell. Measuring the speed of neutrinos is actually a statistical matter so they look at the number of detections within a certain period of time after the accelerator fires. It may be a measurement error. If so then these experimentalists do botch things sometimes. If, on the other hand, these results are confirmed then the principal researchers are all going to Stockholm to pick up a Nobel.

To answer your two specific questions:

The answer to whether or not the neutrinos can keep up their motion indefinitely, the answer would be yes for a given value of indefinite. Until it interacts with another particle a neutrino at any velocity will continue at that velocity.

As far as the speed of a neutrino under natural conditions they have been detected within the margin of error of the speed of light (so within .999999 percent of c) from sources like a supernova.

Cheers
Aj

I know what neutrinos are but thanks for the input and taking time to respond. I found the answers on some of the links and websites many of you pvt messaged me with. Thank you!

Corkey · 09-26-2011, 04:30 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/odyssey-marine...145559446.html

Sunken treasure

SoNotHer · 09-26-2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

http://news.yahoo.com/odyssey-marine...145559446.html

Sunken treasure

"Based on Friday's closing price of $30.10 per ounce, the trove would be worth more than $210 million today. Odyssey Marine said it would be 'the largest known precious metal cargo ever recovered from the sea.'"

Wow....

Corkey · 09-30-2011, 04:44 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15...-26790237.html

Tsunami pods.

Kelt · 09-30-2011, 06:12 PM

I want one

BugsAndKisses · 09-30-2011, 08:10 PM

Astronomers searching for the building blocks of life in a giant dust cloud at the heart of the Milky Way have concluded that it tastes vaguely of raspberries.

The unanticipated discovery follows years of work by astronomers who trained their 30m radio telescope on the enormous ball of dust and gas in the hope of spotting complex molecules that are vital for life.

Finding amino acids in interstellar space is a Holy Grail for astrobiologists, as this would raise the possibility of life emerging on other planets after being seeded with the molecules.

In the latest survey, astronomers sifted through thousands of signals from Sagittarius B2, a vast dust cloud at the centre of our galaxy. While they failed to find evidence for amino acids, they did find a substance called ethyl formate, the chemical responsible for the flavour of raspberries.

"It does happen to give raspberries their flavour, but there are many other molecules that are needed to make space raspberries," Arnaud Belloche, an astronomer at the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy in Bonn, told the Guardian.

Curiously, ethyl formate has another distinguishing characteristic: it also smells of rum.

The astronomers used the IRAM telescope in Spain to analyse electromagnetic radiation emitted by a hot and dense region of Sagittarius B2 that surrounds a newborn star.

Radiation from the star is absorbed by molecules floating around in the gas cloud, which is then re-emitted at different energies depending on the type of molecule.

While scouring their data, the team also found evidence for the lethal chemical propyl cyanide in the same cloud. The two molecules are the largest yet discovered in deep space.

Dr Belloche and his colleague Robin Garrod at Cornell University in New York have collected nearly 4,000 distinct signals from the cloud but have only analysed around half of these.

"So far we have identified around 50 molecules in our survey, and two of those had not been seen before," said Belloche.

The results are being presented today at the European Week of Astronomy and Space Science at the University of Hertfordshire.

Last year, the team came tantalisingly close to finding amino acids in space with the discovery of a molecule that can be used to make them, called amino acetonitrile.

The latest discoveries have boosted the researchers' morale because the molecules are as large as the simplest amino acid, glycine. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins and are widely seen as being critical for complex life to exist anywhere in the universe.

"I wouldn't be surprised if we find an amino acid out there in the coming years," said Belloche.

Previously, astronomers have detected a variety of large molecules, including alcohols, acids and chemicals called aldehydes.

"The difficulty in searching for complex molecules is that the best astronomical sources contain so many different molecules that their 'fingerprints' overlap and are difficult to disentangle," Belloche said.

The molecules are thought to form when chemicals that already exist on some dust grains, such as ethanol, link together to make more complex chains.

"There is no apparent limit to the size of molecules that can be formed by this process, so there's good reason to expect even more complex organic molecules to be there," said Garrod.

source : http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...s-astrobiology

Isn't that kinda romantic in a Trekkie sort of way <3

Corkey · 10-02-2011, 05:09 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/hairy-crazy-an...150823360.html

Crazy ants, we will never, live in the south, ever!

dreadgeek · 09-26-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGG

I know what neutrinos are but thanks for the input and taking time to respond. I found the answers on some of the links and websites many of you pvt messaged me with. Thank you!

No offense was meant, Jagg. I responded to you but wanted to give others who might also be wondering much the same thing but didn't necessarily know what neutrinos are some bit of background so they would have some context about what all the hubbub was about. Again, I meant no insult.

Cheers
Aj

JAGG · 09-26-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

No offense was meant, Jagg. I responded to you but wanted to give others who might also be wondering much the same thing but didn't necessarily know what neutrinos are some bit of background so they would have some context about what all the hubbub was about. Again, I meant no insult.

Cheers
Aj

None taken friend!!!! I was not insulted in the least. I'm grateful you took the time to respond to my questions. Thank you again.

09-26-2011, 04:30 PM	#2
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	http://news.yahoo.com/odyssey-marine...145559446.html Sunken treasure __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-30-2011, 04:44 PM	#4
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15...-26790237.html Tsunami pods. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-30-2011, 08:10 PM	#6
BugsAndKisses Member How Do You Identify?: ladybug, lover of little things Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Settled Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: florida Posts: 341 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 278 Thanked 864 Times in 215 Posts Rep Power: 10789160	Galaxy's centre tastes of raspberries and smells of rum, say astronomers Astronomers searching for the building blocks of life in a giant dust cloud at the heart of the Milky Way have concluded that it tastes vaguely of raspberries. The unanticipated discovery follows years of work by astronomers who trained their 30m radio telescope on the enormous ball of dust and gas in the hope of spotting complex molecules that are vital for life. Finding amino acids in interstellar space is a Holy Grail for astrobiologists, as this would raise the possibility of life emerging on other planets after being seeded with the molecules. In the latest survey, astronomers sifted through thousands of signals from Sagittarius B2, a vast dust cloud at the centre of our galaxy. While they failed to find evidence for amino acids, they did find a substance called ethyl formate, the chemical responsible for the flavour of raspberries. "It does happen to give raspberries their flavour, but there are many other molecules that are needed to make space raspberries," Arnaud Belloche, an astronomer at the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy in Bonn, told the Guardian. Curiously, ethyl formate has another distinguishing characteristic: it also smells of rum. The astronomers used the IRAM telescope in Spain to analyse electromagnetic radiation emitted by a hot and dense region of Sagittarius B2 that surrounds a newborn star. Radiation from the star is absorbed by molecules floating around in the gas cloud, which is then re-emitted at different energies depending on the type of molecule. While scouring their data, the team also found evidence for the lethal chemical propyl cyanide in the same cloud. The two molecules are the largest yet discovered in deep space. Dr Belloche and his colleague Robin Garrod at Cornell University in New York have collected nearly 4,000 distinct signals from the cloud but have only analysed around half of these. "So far we have identified around 50 molecules in our survey, and two of those had not been seen before," said Belloche. The results are being presented today at the European Week of Astronomy and Space Science at the University of Hertfordshire. Last year, the team came tantalisingly close to finding amino acids in space with the discovery of a molecule that can be used to make them, called amino acetonitrile. The latest discoveries have boosted the researchers' morale because the molecules are as large as the simplest amino acid, glycine. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins and are widely seen as being critical for complex life to exist anywhere in the universe. "I wouldn't be surprised if we find an amino acid out there in the coming years," said Belloche. Previously, astronomers have detected a variety of large molecules, including alcohols, acids and chemicals called aldehydes. "The difficulty in searching for complex molecules is that the best astronomical sources contain so many different molecules that their 'fingerprints' overlap and are difficult to disentangle," Belloche said. The molecules are thought to form when chemicals that already exist on some dust grains, such as ethanol, link together to make more complex chains. "There is no apparent limit to the size of molecules that can be formed by this process, so there's good reason to expect even more complex organic molecules to be there," said Garrod. source : http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...s-astrobiology Isn't that kinda romantic in a Trekkie sort of way <3

10-02-2011, 05:09 PM	#7
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	http://news.yahoo.com/hairy-crazy-an...150823360.html Crazy ants, we will never, live in the south, ever! __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-30-2011, 06:12 PM	#5
Kelt Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Beach Butch Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,751 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 19,765 Thanked 15,289 Times in 2,539 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I want one