The Pathological Altruist

Elijah · 10-08-2011, 09:44 AM

Alright, I am going to give this a try…what immediately came to mind for Me when I read this article is that I have run into a whole group of individuals that have seemed to adopt this all or nothing attitude about how to fix our social and financial woes. As an example, the attitude that all people of this nation and any other nations who are here legally or otherwise have a “right” to healthcare. Now, while in theory, I think this is a splendid idea, the logical part of My brain steps in and asks the rather inconvenient question of “how?”

How can a system, that has limited means, be expected to serve in an unlimited capacity? The only answer I can come up with is …it can’t.

Once we come to this conclusion, then the question is again, so now what? Then the ominous task of outlining some rules is upon us. Here is where things start break down rapidly, the pathological altruist thinks that everyone, without exception, should be entitled to health care, because dammit, it’s a basic human right (or it should be) etc. While, again, in theory, I agree, we should take care of our brothers and sisters, there are limitations on our ability to do so with abandon.

Then, when we start to draw those proverbial lines in the sand, then we start to attack and demonize each other. Or, we simply give up trying to come up with an actual solution, because the process is simply too painful, and inertia sets in, but the judgment and mudslinging remains.

So, much like the mother on the plane who must put on her oxygen mask before she attempts to help her child, we also, as a nation, have to put on our oxygen mask first or we will no longer be able to extend that seemingly unlimited “hand” to our neighboring nations.

My point is that pathological altruism is akin to perfectionism, which really serves no purpose, but to cripple and divide.

I’m sorry, I really know nothing about thermodynamics or I would have given you a snappy analogy based on that. *s

Cin · 10-08-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElijahRene

Alright, I am going to give this a try…what immediately came to mind for Me when I read this article is that I have run into a whole group of individuals that have seemed to adopt this all or nothing attitude about how to fix our social and financial woes. As an example, the attitude that all people of this nation and any other nations who are here legally or otherwise have a “right” to healthcare. Now, while in theory, I think this is a splendid idea, the logical part of My brain steps in and asks the rather inconvenient question of “how?”

How can a system, that has limited means, be expected to serve in an unlimited capacity? The only answer I can come up with is …it can’t.

Once we come to this conclusion, then the question is again, so now what? Then the ominous task of outlining some rules is upon us. Here is where things start break down rapidly, the pathological altruist thinks that everyone, without exception, should be entitled to health care, because dammit, it’s a basic human right (or it should be) etc. While, again, in theory, I agree, we should take care of our brothers and sisters, there are limitations on our ability to do so with abandon.

Then, when we start to draw those proverbial lines in the sand, then we start to attack and demonize each other. Or, we simply give up trying to come up with an actual solution, because the process is simply too painful, and inertia sets in, but the judgment and mudslinging remains.

So, much like the mother on the plane who must put on her oxygen mask before she attempts to help her child, we also, as a nation, have to put on our oxygen mask first or we will no longer be able to extend that seemingly unlimited “hand” to our neighboring nations.

I’m sorry, I really know nothing about thermodynamics or I would have given you a snappy analogy based on that. *s

I agree it would be helpful to reconsider the all or nothing stand that people often take.

However as far as healthcare for all, other countries manage it. Why would it be that the U.S. can't?

Elijah · 10-08-2011, 09:58 AM

They manage it, but at what cost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I agree it would be helpful to reconsider the all or nothing stand that people often take.

However as far as healthcare for all, other countries manage it. Why would it be that the U.S. can't?

Cin · 10-08-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElijahRene

They manage it, but at what cost?

Ah the scary socialized medicine thing. Well, after beginning the process to be a permanent resident in Montreal, i was given full health care benefits before I was even allowed to work. I have lived here for 8 years and I have to say I have had excellent health care. I love my doctor. She actually listens to me and her diagnostic skills are the best I've ever seen. I will say if you need routine surgery there is a wait, but it isn't really that long. If you need emergency care you will get it immediately.

Elijah · 10-08-2011, 10:31 AM

I'm glad to hear that, perhaps there is hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Ah the scary socialized medicine thing. Well, after beginning the process to be a permanent resident in Montreal, i was given full health care benefits before I was even allowed to work. I have lived here for 8 years and I have to say I have had excellent health care. I love my doctor. She actually listens to me and her diagnostic skills are the best I've ever seen. I will say if you need routine surgery there is a wait, but it isn't really that long. If you need emergency care you will get it immediately.

SoNotHer · 10-08-2011, 02:32 PM

How can a system, that has limited means, be expected to serve in an unlimited capacity? The only answer I can come up with is …it can’t.

Or it has to be re-imagined beyond its current state of limitations. 1) Nothing stays the same in a fluid universe and 2) Einstein was right when he said that our current problems can not be solved at the level of thinking that created them.

Then, when we start to draw those proverbial lines in the sand, then we start to attack and demonize each other. Or, we simply give up trying to come up with an actual solution, because the process is simply too painful, and inertia sets in, but the judgment and mudslinging remains.

Lines have been drawn in sand for most of human history and for a myriad of reasons. We like a certain look, a certain way of speaking, a perceived quality, a comment, a persona, a possibility. We draw lines in the sand all of the time and decide what we will ignore, assimilate, listen to or refute. This quality is in no way specific to pathology or altruism. But your point about the break down of communication and the demonization of the others is spot on.

My point is that pathological altruism is akin to perfectionism, which really serves no purpose, but to cripple and divide.

Agreed. Likewise with perfectionism as a salient aspect of material consumption and self gratification, or a course of action driven, informed by and responsible entirely to the needs of the self.

I would also be interested in a thread on "Pathological Solipsism" or "The Hungry Triplets: The Id, Ego and The Super Ego." Inasmuch as we're living that reality, the nexus is clarion and examples abundant.

10-08-2011, 09:44 AM	#1
Elijah Member How Do You Identify?: Genderqueer Butch Preferred Pronoun?: Masculine ones Relationship Status: Open to healthy possibilities... Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 554 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 738 Thanked 1,629 Times in 393 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	Alright, I am going to give this a try…what immediately came to mind for Me when I read this article is that I have run into a whole group of individuals that have seemed to adopt this all or nothing attitude about how to fix our social and financial woes. As an example, the attitude that all people of this nation and any other nations who are here legally or otherwise have a “right” to healthcare. Now, while in theory, I think this is a splendid idea, the logical part of My brain steps in and asks the rather inconvenient question of “how?” How can a system, that has limited means, be expected to serve in an unlimited capacity? The only answer I can come up with is …it can’t. Once we come to this conclusion, then the question is again, so now what? Then the ominous task of outlining some rules is upon us. Here is where things start break down rapidly, the pathological altruist thinks that everyone, without exception, should be entitled to health care, because dammit, it’s a basic human right (or it should be) etc. While, again, in theory, I agree, we should take care of our brothers and sisters, there are limitations on our ability to do so with abandon. Then, when we start to draw those proverbial lines in the sand, then we start to attack and demonize each other. Or, we simply give up trying to come up with an actual solution, because the process is simply too painful, and inertia sets in, but the judgment and mudslinging remains. So, much like the mother on the plane who must put on her oxygen mask before she attempts to help her child, we also, as a nation, have to put on our oxygen mask first or we will no longer be able to extend that seemingly unlimited “hand” to our neighboring nations. My point is that pathological altruism is akin to perfectionism, which really serves no purpose, but to cripple and divide. I’m sorry, I really know nothing about thermodynamics or I would have given you a snappy analogy based on that. *s __________________ "There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness but of power. They are messengers of overwhelming grief and of unspeakable love." ~Washington Irving

10-08-2011, 02:32 PM	#6
SoNotHer Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Professional Sandbagger and Jenga Zumba Instructor Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: In the master control room of my world domination dreams Posts: 2,811 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,587 Thanked 4,734 Times in 1,409 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	How can a system, that has limited means, be expected to serve in an unlimited capacity? The only answer I can come up with is …it can’t. Or it has to be re-imagined beyond its current state of limitations. 1) Nothing stays the same in a fluid universe and 2) Einstein was right when he said that our current problems can not be solved at the level of thinking that created them. Then, when we start to draw those proverbial lines in the sand, then we start to attack and demonize each other. Or, we simply give up trying to come up with an actual solution, because the process is simply too painful, and inertia sets in, but the judgment and mudslinging remains. Lines have been drawn in sand for most of human history and for a myriad of reasons. We like a certain look, a certain way of speaking, a perceived quality, a comment, a persona, a possibility. We draw lines in the sand all of the time and decide what we will ignore, assimilate, listen to or refute. This quality is in no way specific to pathology or altruism. But your point about the break down of communication and the demonization of the others is spot on. My point is that pathological altruism is akin to perfectionism, which really serves no purpose, but to cripple and divide. Agreed. Likewise with perfectionism as a salient aspect of material consumption and self gratification, or a course of action driven, informed by and responsible entirely to the needs of the self. I would also be interested in a thread on "Pathological Solipsism" or "The Hungry Triplets: The Id, Ego and The Super Ego." Inasmuch as we're living that reality, the nexus is clarion and examples abundant.