OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Sachita]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ViWWsYmAc"]US Soldiers Are Waking Up! War is a Racket - YouTube[/nomedia]

this is really powerful. I'm not sure how to embed

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Sachita

US Soldiers Are Waking Up! War is a Racket - YouTube

this is really powerful. I'm not sure how to embed

Embedding for you

[SoNotHer]

Very brave, powerful speaker and video identifying the racism inherent to occupation and the terrorist as himself.

'The average person has nothing to gain from war.'

Yes.

Originally Posted by Ebon

Embedding for you

[Cin]

I keep thinking I need to know how the enemy is thinking, how they are going to come at this movement. But it's annoying to read this stuff and truly sometimes I wonder if it's really necessary cause it just puts me in a bad mood. On that note, here let me share it with you.

My comments are in parenthesis. I only made one when I really couldn't resist because truly this shit needs no commentary it speaks for itself.

What the Right is saying about the Occupy Wall Street movement

It’s a mob

The movement is made of spoiled lazy trust fund kids
(odd since it arose organically out of anger over pervasive economic injustice)

The movement lacks the nerve to engage in violence.

They’re mad. They’re getting violent. They don’t have a plan to work within the parameters of a civil society (The Constitution).

They are quite literally throwing a temper tantrum and demanding that “the rich” fork over more money to the government. Despite the predictable failure of Progressivism, they still think “the rich” paying more in taxes is going to lead to them getting a job. It’s almost sad to watch. I’d pity them if they weren’t a bunch of arrogant entitled brats.

The tea party inspired OWS.

Fewer people have participated in all the Occupy movements combined than attended just one tea party rally on the Washington Mall.

In comportment, OWS is to the tea party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield.
(This one actually rendered me speechless. So many thoughts flowed in at once that I gave up trying to articulate them. I’m truly gobsmacked.)

This “movement” has no idea what they’re going to do beyond “occupying” public parks across the country. They’re under the impression that simply making a lot of noise will somehow magically force Congress to pass the legislation necessary to make the changes they’re demanding. There is no plan B. What you see now – the drum circles and chants and signs – is all they have. And they wonder why normal people see this “movement” as the temper tantrum it is?

Demands posted in OWS' name include a "guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"; a $20-an-hour minimum wage (above the $16 entry wage the United Auto Workers just negotiated with GM); ending "the fossil fuel economy"; "open borders" so "anyone can travel anywhere to work and live"; $1 trillion for infrastructure; $1 trillion for "ecological restoration" (e.g., re-establishing "the natural flow of river systems"); "free college education."
(This reminds me of the outcry the Right had regarding The Promise of America, a program teaching kids to read. They claimed the program spewed offensive socialist propaganda by saying horrible things like the People’s basic needs must be met. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care need to be overseen by our government system. Labor laws should ensure that people work in safe environments and that they are paid fairly for the work they do. Really controversial stuff apparently.)

It’s going to get ugly. And they’re going to lose.

OWS casts Barack Obama and the Democrats as the problem and will ultimately cost the Democrats the election.

Republicans support the tea party. Democrats don’t support OWS.

Occupy Wall Street is a loosely knit movement with opaque goals.

You cannot compare OWS to the tea party because the tea party attracted substantial financial backing.
(they really don’t get it do they?)

The tea party appeals to middle-class Americans who not only tend to have more money than the angry young people who are at the core of the “Occupy” movement, but who also tend to vote.

Do Democrats really think that casting Barack Obama as the enemy of business is going to win him this election? The real problem, politically speaking, with building a Democratic tea party on the back of Wall Street is that it is unlikely to elect more Democrats
(there is actually a sensical point in there somewhere, but first you have to accept the premise that OWS is the Democratic version of the tea party.)

Political instability caused by protesting is not good for the economy. (ya, cause things have been going so great until now.)

Protesting against business – or even just big business- is not going to lead those companies to hire more people
(Well, this assumes that they were actually hiring Americans in the first place. Most of Wall St companies don’t actually produce anything. They are giant gambling casinos. Manufacturing corporations are already moving their jobs and production overseas and getting big tax breaks to break our backs.)

Does OWS really think that this is how we boost consumer confidence?
(I guess they aren’t kidding when they say they don’t understand what all the protesting is about. The message really isn’t clear to these chowderheads.)


A couple of reference links so it doesn't look like I pulled this crap out of, well you know.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/1...nti-democracy/

http://www.newsmax.com/GeorgeWill/Oc...0/14/id/414495

http://www.newsmax.com/Estrich/Wall-...0/14/id/414455

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...A0conservatism

[Sachita]

I would like to see people shopping local. Not shopping at walmart, McDonalds and the like. To seek out local stores, farmers, etc. make a strong statement and it would. You can make changes, support this revolution right now by being proactive towards change.

Some might say "It's just not affordable" but if you plan and if this is important enough to you then you'll start finding a way. If we all made these choices- not use credit cards, move money, shop different it does more because it forces change.

while you're at it support our local food systems- bulk purchases at local co-ops and small health food chains. Try and buy organic and stop GMO's. Its all part of a whole. Lets do it.

[Dominique]

Here I am again, talking about the pro's and con's of living in an *old* city neighborhood.

I think it is very important to patronize local businesses. Times are tough for the entire 99%! don't forget that. As we are asking the 1% to pay their share, I think those of us that can pay a little more, should. I give my money to as many businesses in my neighborhood as I can. CHOICE. Yes, it may cost me a dollar more. But it will keep that business here, and keep a local mom or dad working. (maybe that mom or dad doesn't have a car, or there is a reason real specific they are working at Mary's Nut and Bolt store)

I moved into this neighborhood 15 years ago, with promises of big things to come. GENTRIFICATION!! Revitalization. Well.....

To date: The elementary school has closed. Merged with one 6 miles miles away.

The Grocery store closed. Nearest one is 3.5 miles away.

The Post office sub station closed. Nearest one 1.5 miles away. That closed. Main post office 3 miles away.

Bus route cut significantly. No week end service unless you can walk one mile. Week day service routes are ok if you work....every 30 minutes, from 6a until 9a and again from 3p to 6p. two buses late night 11:45p and 12:30a. Holiday service, one every two hours.

Laundry mat closed.

Two banks moved away CREDIT UNIONS (TWO) STAYED!!

Major hospital 4 blocks away.

OK, Mostly I've told you what has left. This is the city people. Who would move into this neighborhood? We are walking distance to the major down town area.....16 blocks or less. Dense in senior citizens.

I patronize my local businesses because these are the things that make a neighborhood. The elderly people/ and the very poor, need these things to be here. They can't rely on mass transportation system to help them get around (mass transportation is free to them, paid for by the Pa. Lottery) what good is it, if it doesn't come into the neighborhood?

Absolutely, you have to force change. The rerouting of the buses had little effect on me. But you can bet I was at every meeting speaking. Basically I told them what I told you. I even tossed in some census numbers. These things effect everybody. Do not buy your stamps at a mac machine because it is convienient. How long has it been since you have used your post office? What will you be saying when your post office closes?

[SmoothButch]

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Yellow band

Here I am again, talking about the pro's and con's of living in an *old* city neighborhood.

I think it is very important to patronize local businesses. Times are tough for the entire 99%! don't forget that. As we are asking the 1% to pay their share, I think those of us that can pay a little more, should. I give my money to as many businesses in my neighborhood as I can. CHOICE. Yes, it may cost me a dollar more. But it will keep that business here, and keep a local mom or dad working. (maybe that mom or dad doesn't have a car, or there is a reason real specific they are working at Mary's Nut and Bolt store)

I moved into this neighborhood 15 years ago, with promises of big things to come. GENTRIFICATION!! Revitalization. Well.....

To date: The elementary school has closed. Merged with one 6 miles miles away.

The Grocery store closed. Nearest one is 3.5 miles away.

The Post office sub station closed. Nearest one 1.5 miles away. That closed. Main post office 3 miles away.

Bus route cut significantly. No week end service unless you can walk one mile. Week day service routes are ok if you work....every 30 minutes, from 6a until 9a and again from 3p to 6p. two buses late night 11:45p and 12:30a. Holiday service, one every two hours.

Laundry mat closed.

Two banks moved away CREDIT UNIONS (TWO) STAYED!!

Major hospital 4 blocks away.

OK, Mostly I've told you what has left. This is the city people. Who would move into this neighborhood? We are walking distance to the major down town area.....16 blocks or less. Dense in senior citizens.

I patronize my local businesses because these are the things that make a neighborhood. The elderly people/ and the very poor, need these things to be here. They can't rely on mass transportation system to help them get around (mass transportation is free to them, paid for by the Pa. Lottery) what good is it, if it doesn't come into the neighborhood?

Absolutely, you have to force change. The rerouting of the buses had little effect on me. But you can bet I was at every meeting speaking. Basically I told them what I told you. I even tossed in some census numbers. These things effect everybody. Do not buy your stamps at a mac machine because it is convienient. How long has it been since you have used your post office? What will you be saying when your post office closes?

You mention the post office, bus system and small business imploding in our current economy.

Today, at work, I performed an expensive service and the customer handed me a Hundred Dollar bill and while I was presenting her change and as she was leaving her 'tip,' somehow the customer swiped back the $20 dollar bill... I didn't realize how fast it happened, but she ended up not paying fully for her service. I doubt she will ever come back and make it right. When we counted the till tonight, I handed back the tip she supposedly left me because I won't be a part of cheating - even if it hurt me the most.

Also, the USPS is downsizing it's locations and service centers here. I have a client who has logged 24 years of service who will lose his job by the end of this month. He *was* full time; he's been working a reduced schedule and lost considerable benefits under the federal pay system, et al.

Also, recently, a long tenured bus driver from Tri-Met kicked a young Latino mother and her baby off the bus in the dark (late at night), and other riders left the bus in protest over the treatment the bus driver gave to her. She's a student learning English at a local PCC campus in the Beaverton/Hillsboro area and her professors saw the news story about her and helped her to make a statement to law enforcement (and TriMet investigators) about what happened that night. She didn't feel like she had any choice but to leave the bus with her crying baby - which according to others on the bus, was not crying as badly as the bus driver portrayed the situation. The bus driver is no longer an employee (or maybe still relieved of duty pending the investigation), but racism is alive and well in the suburbs of the Portland Metro area and in Portland as well.

[T4Texas]

[QUOTE=Yellow band;439284]
Absolutely, you have to force change.

I think those who oppose OWS are waiting for some violent explosion so they can institute martial law and become even more oppressive. No one knows where all this will go. I believe as many have said the best ways to fight are to move your money, support small business, and let your public officials know your displeasure with the way they vote or make policy decisions. What they forget is the general public is what makes this country tick, not just a handful of politicians or a president, or a CEO. They might hold the reigns of power, but its still John Q. public making it all work. WE have the power to decide where our money goes and what we spend it on. These folks are afraid because they know this thing could become a serious grass roots movement that will alter the way they profit. Its always all about the dollar no matter how you look at it.
You do have to force change because otherwise its not going to happen. But you don't need a mob to force change. You do it quietly by using your credit union instead of your bank. By not patronizing companies like WalMart. By telling your elected officials they need to work for their constituents instead of some lobbyist or they can forget re-election. Just occupying public spaces is not going to make it work.
I feel if change is not forthcoming, this country is going to be in a hella mess. We already have a debt that is out of control and will take years to fix. We import so much more than we export and have allowed China to overrun our country with mass poorly made goods. We have outsourced so much that if our international creditors shut us down tomorrow, we'd be screwed. We waste money on wars that will never be won or serve the interests of either us or the countries we fight in. We have a president who appears to be more concerned about his re-election than running the country. How many times in the last few years has wall street almost been on the verge of financial collapse? I think people have no idea what will really happen if this economy bottoms out and I fear we are getting close.
Those in power have not been working for you. They have been working for their own interests and filling their own pockets for years now. We need to do a house cleaning in washington and get some people in office who are truly concerned about the mom and pop business owners, the people on public assistance who want to get off it, the unemployed who get caught up in a cycle of benefits vs taking a job. I feel until we do this house cleaning, the problem is not going to get better.

[ruffryder]

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive. Farmers sell their product to Wal-Mart and other major grocery stores because there is money in it for them. Why sit outside at a farmer's market all day and hope for someone to buy their stuff when a grocery chain will buy in bulk and take all the crop. I worked wholesale meat and produce for 8 years. We bought bulk from farmers and sold to grocery stores, restaurants, and schools. So farmers stuff does actually make it into stores and around town and stays in the U.S. McDonalds buys their beef from local farmers. . . I also worked 6 years in beef production. We got our cattle from local feed lots, slaughtered them, cleaned them up and distributed the meat to McDonalds and other major restaurants and grocery chains. We even shipped to Japan and handled organic meat for the customers that wanted it. I worked Quality Assurance so I know what is in the meat and how safe it is when it comes out of a meat plant. I have taken many tours from where the cattle comes from to how it is slaughtered, packaged, and shipped. You may not want to shop Wal-Mart or McDonalds, however you should research where they actually get their product from because some of it is from local farmers and from the U.S. We may not like McDonalds and Wal-Mart but they do provide many jobs for people in the U.S. Just a thought..

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive...

Sigh. You must force change. There have been extensive and in in depth studies about how the Walmarts of the world, have ruined the small businesses. We [the collective we] in this thread, didn't make this stuff up. One of Walmarts biggest down falls is it's unwillingness to pay it's employees a decent wage. They encourage them to apply
for public assistance. Are you following what the Occupy Wall Street is about Ruffryder? Walmart would be part of the 1%.

Personally, I come here to see what is going on with the movement, what NEW idea's people have to contribute and to see what others are doing to affect change. Based on your post below....you are totally ok with the direction our country is going ? Including what the Walmarts of the world are doing. Let us have our space to discuss how we want to affect change, and you just keep doing the same old, same old. OK?

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive. Farmers sell their product to Wal-Mart and other major grocery stores because there is money in it for them. Why sit outside at a farmer's market all day and hope for someone to buy their stuff when a grocery chain will buy in bulk and take all the crop. I worked wholesale meat and produce for 8 years. We bought bulk from farmers and sold to grocery stores, restaurants, and schools. So farmers stuff does actually make it into stores and around town and stays in the U.S. McDonalds buys their beef from local farmers. . . I also worked 6 years in beef production. We got our cattle from local feed lots, slaughtered them, cleaned them up and distributed the meat to McDonalds and other major restaurants and grocery chains. We even shipped to Japan and handled organic meat for the customers that wanted it. I worked Quality Assurance so I know what is in the meat and how safe it is when it comes out of a meat plant. I have taken many tours from where the cattle comes from to how it is slaughtered, packaged, and shipped. You may not want to shop Wal-Mart or McDonalds, however you should research where they actually get their product from because some of it is from local farmers and from the U.S. We may not like McDonalds and Wal-Mart but they do provide many jobs for people in the U.S. Just a thought..

i see what you're saying. it's gonna take me a minute to deconstruct all your points carefully, but i'll try to break it down. first lemme say that i agree....not all places in America have the basic option of buying from someplace OTHER than Walmart and to be honest, i think that is exactly the point of Walmart. they certainly didn't want to make buying from anyone else easier on the consumer and Walmart has basically monopolized many food markets, and that, in itself, goes against what we, as consumers, deserve as a liberty in America. corporate monopolies used to be regulated and now they are wildly out of control and taking over, which leaves us with....no choices as consumers.

also, farmers are not making money selling to Walmart. they are just as trapped in that system as the consumer is. when a business like Walmart drives the prices down on everything, it's the farmer that eats that cut, not Walmart. so they end up getting caught in the grow more treadmill rather than the grow better sustainable life cycle because they have to grow more to make ends meet, if they can even do that. and they end up cutting corners, like migrant labor (which is a whole other discussion) that will work those thousands of acres of fields for well below minimum wage illegally. adding onto this...it's corporations like Walmart that have pushed, and got approved, the kinds of visas that allow people from other countries to come and work in agriculture that leads to illegals staying here after those visas have expired. it's actually NOT coming from hordes of people running across the border in the middle of the night. so there are huge impacts that institutions like Walmart represent that are grossly negative on the well being of the country as a whole, from immigration, to agriculture, to food laws, to economic depression and the list goes on and on.

now farming organically is about 3 times as expensive (and that's a conservative number) as farming commercially. AND....out of season produce, i garauntee you, comes from other countries. the in season products that come from other countries are there because it's literally impossible for American farmers to produce those products for cheaper. their hands are tied. you can only drop the prices so much before you're out of business. which leads me to farm subsidies. what alot of people don't understand is that farming has become ONLY profitable IF it is subsidized. it's a hidden cost that most people aren't aware of. so when you get you paycheck, taxes taken out of your check go to subsidizing agriculture. the consumer is paying for that. THEN.....when you go to the store and you get an orange from Florida.... you're paying for that orange. again! but you're not complaining because that orange was only 50 cents. but how much have you already paid for that orange in the form of tax dollars? so what we have is this illusion of "cheap food" that really, isn't cheap at all. and we have no say in the matter....that's the real kick. AND....it's corps like Walmart that push for those ag subsidies, btw. they practically wrote them. so basically, corps like Walmart are deciding how our tax dollars are being spent for us. i dunno about you, but i kinda have a problem with that.

oohhhh where do i start about the beef? *deep sigh* sooooooo.....once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there were some cows that became steak. i'm just kidding. this stuff depresses me. i need some humor. so what if it wasn't funny. so a couple decades ago there were roughly 5 meat corporations that owned somewhere around 20% of the beef supply...the remaining percentage was privately owned, ie cattle ranchers. today there are 4 that own 80 or 85% of that supply and there are less than six slaughter houses in the country that handles all of the nations commercial beef supply. during this time, monopolies (it's a theme here) emerged in the meat industry and in the name of driving prices down, we now have feedlots, injections, subsidized commercial corn (means it's not fit for human consumption) being fed to cows, and all kinds of shady dealings like cutting labor corners (insert illegal immigrant here) so that Walmart can sell beef at a certain price. see where i'm going with this? production in slaughterhouses have tripled because the beef industry, like the farmers, have to now produce in bulk to turn a profit. they're not making a whole lot of money either, or else they wouldn't need to produce in bulk. feedlots are a nightmare to the environment, as well. it creates a host of disease problems, a host of environmental problems, and it's a system entirely dependent on oil to work. all of which are bad and not sustainable forever.

can i talk about McDonalds for a sec? the "beef" that makes up a McDs patty is actually the bits that are sent to a factory that (is also entirely dependent on oil) specializes in grinding them all up and then spraying it all with ammonia, wrapping it in plastic and shipping it out to your neighborhood drive thru. mmmm delish. a McD's burger bun has a grotesque amount of ingredients in it (like 80 i'm not kidding). i'm using the bun as an example, but that's basically the theme for the entire menu. it's not actually food. it's ....something ...else.....that is designed to taste and look like food. colleges offer degrees in this stuff. you can get a bachelor's in "food sciences" and then go to work for Kraft for 100 grand a year trying to make cheese that will never mold. or a bun that looks like bread but actually isn't. but no one offers a bachelors in sustainable agriculture. coincidence? i think not.

ok what's next. oohhh quality assurance. i love this one. i cannot count how many times there has been a meat (of sort) recall in the past ten years there has been that many. and they've been huge, too...like in the millions of pounds kind of thing....not like oops we dropped a side of beef on the floor and it contaminated 300 pounds of beef, no. millions of pounds. millions! that's an astounding number to me. i think the most recent one was ground turkey. the one that sticks out, though, was the one that woke me up and that was 2 million pounds of ground beef that was recalled and it stopped me cold from buying commercial ground beef and i took my son off the school lunch program. children have died eating commercial beef in america. DIED. so please tell me about quality assurance. i would looooovvveeee to know more and i'm not being sarcastic at all. on side note, the beef industry had legislation passed that actually permits slaughterhouses that keep having "issues" from shutting down while also keeping the public from being able to sue them. i gotta say, i'm not feeling super confident about any quality assurances that might be in place, as you say. cuz....the proof is in the pudding, man. you can't deny that massive and commonly occuring meat recalls in this nation is a good example of quality nor is it very assuring.

[dreadgeek]

Ruffryder:

You bring up some interesting points that I wish were given more due consideration. One of the books I read in the last six months (I think it was Matt Ridley's The Rational Optimist) had a discussion about local sourcing and while it seems like a great idea, it actually can create quite a bit of price inflation. Someone back east set out to create a men's suit using only materials that could be obtained within 50 miles of her home. To be fair she started absolutely from scratch and, if memory serves (I don't have the book with me at work) a suit that would have cost maybe $150 - $200 at a local clothing store was close to $1000 when all was said and done. Another book I'm currently reading (Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature) brings up a really interesting point about trade and that is that it appears to create a more peaceful world. Why bomb someone at great expense when you can trade with them and get the things they have that you want at a fraction of the cost?

People who have studied how humans have become less violent over time (and despite what you might think humans are *far* less violent now then even a century ago) have noted two things. Trading partners tend not to go to war with one another and democracies tend not to go to war with one another. So while the idea of local sourcing and buying local might seem like an intuitively obvious idea, it may turn out that there are hidden costs. This is NOT a defense of globalization nor is it a defense of unregulated capitalism.

Another problem I see with our quickness to grasp onto local sourcing and buying local as a panacea is that it ignores what happens when trade is diminished. Let's say you live someplace where there's plenty of minerals but not a lot of good farmland. I live someplace where there's not a lot of minerals but lots of farmland. Now, if you trade your surplus minerals with me and I trade my surplus food with you, you have the food you can't grow yourself and I have the minerals I can't dig out of the ground. But what happens if I stop trading with you? Well, I still have all this food but I don't need to grow as much anymore. If I'm no longer selling for a large market, I don't need all the extra hands around. So I lay them off. Likewise, since you don't need nearly as many miners if you aren't trying to get enough minerals out of the ground to trade for other goods you lay them off. Now, we've done the right thing and we've shrunk our footprint. We are now only doing business locally but we're doing *less* business. Every person I lay off is one person who doesn't have money to stop by the bar and buy a couple of beers after a hard day. Every person you lay off is someone who isn't going to eat at the diner during their lunch hour. So the diner lays off someone. That person isn't going to go to the tailor and buy a new dress. So the tailor lays off someone. That person isn't going to be buying a car from the used car dealership, so they lay off someone.

We can't say that the economy doesn't behave that way because, in fact, we are in a recession *precisely* because the economy *does* behave that way. There's a crisis on Wall Street and businesses either fold or contract. The people who lose their jobs aren't spending at the lunch counters, bars and little shops surrounding the business districts so some of those businesses also fold. People who keep their jobs seriously contract their spending in case they are the next one's to get a layoff notice. More jobs are lost. And the cycle feeds on itself.

This is why I am so very, very frustrated that the GOP is pretending that a Keynesian stimulus would be nothing but a waste of money and energy. If people are hired to start repairing schools, bridges and roads those will be construction workers who have money in their pocket. Knowing that it's going to take a while to do the job and there'll be more work because there's a lot of roads to be repaired and schools to be updated, so they spend at the bar or the tailor or what-have-you. That is part of what is wrong is that the government, the spender of last resort, isn't able to do infrastructure projects NOT because there's no money but because our politics is broken.

I understand the arguments in favor of buying local and to some degree I think that's good. My wife and I, for instance, have committed to not eating out of season so there won't be bananas in January for us. On a limited scale this works and as an act of conscience I applaud it. However, I think that we need to be mindful of the ripple effects of economic actions. What might seem to be a self-evidently great idea may, in light of deeper reflection, have hidden costs that may be higher than we should want to pay.

How many here would be willing to have the cost of most everything--certainly their electronics, clothing and food--to double? Triple? Would this really help the poor if suddenly a $700 bare-bones laptop suddenly became a $2100 laptop because every component had to be made within 100 miles? What about those objects that have no physicality? Do we local source that stuff as well? When I upgraded to OS X Lion I didn't touch a DVD, I downloaded it. I don't know nor do I care *where* those bits came from. Should we local source those items like software, books and music that have no physicality to them?

Cheers
Aj

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive. Farmers sell their product to Wal-Mart and other major grocery stores because there is money in it for them. Why sit outside at a farmer's market all day and hope for someone to buy their stuff when a grocery chain will buy in bulk and take all the crop. I worked wholesale meat and produce for 8 years. We bought bulk from farmers and sold to grocery stores, restaurants, and schools. So farmers stuff does actually make it into stores and around town and stays in the U.S. McDonalds buys their beef from local farmers. . . I also worked 6 years in beef production. We got our cattle from local feed lots, slaughtered them, cleaned them up and distributed the meat to McDonalds and other major restaurants and grocery chains. We even shipped to Japan and handled organic meat for the customers that wanted it. I worked Quality Assurance so I know what is in the meat and how safe it is when it comes out of a meat plant. I have taken many tours from where the cattle comes from to how it is slaughtered, packaged, and shipped. You may not want to shop Wal-Mart or McDonalds, however you should research where they actually get their product from because some of it is from local farmers and from the U.S. We may not like McDonalds and Wal-Mart but they do provide many jobs for people in the U.S. Just a thought..

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I keep thinking I need to know how the enemy is thinking, how they are going to come at this movement. But it's annoying to read this stuff and truly sometimes I wonder if it's really necessary cause it just puts me in a bad mood. On that note, here let me share it with you.

My comments are in parenthesis. I only made one when I really couldn't resist because truly this shit needs no commentary it speaks for itself.

What the Right is saying about the Occupy Wall Street movement

It’s a mob

The movement is made of spoiled lazy trust fund kids
(odd since it arose organically out of anger over pervasive economic injustice)

The movement lacks the nerve to engage in violence.

They’re mad. They’re getting violent. They don’t have a plan to work within the parameters of a civil society (The Constitution).

They are quite literally throwing a temper tantrum and demanding that “the rich” fork over more money to the government. Despite the predictable failure of Progressivism, they still think “the rich” paying more in taxes is going to lead to them getting a job. It’s almost sad to watch. I’d pity them if they weren’t a bunch of arrogant entitled brats.

The tea party inspired OWS.

Fewer people have participated in all the Occupy movements combined than attended just one tea party rally on the Washington Mall.

In comportment, OWS is to the tea party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield.
(This one actually rendered me speechless. So many thoughts flowed in at once that I gave up trying to articulate them. I’m truly gobsmacked.)

This “movement” has no idea what they’re going to do beyond “occupying” public parks across the country. They’re under the impression that simply making a lot of noise will somehow magically force Congress to pass the legislation necessary to make the changes they’re demanding. There is no plan B. What you see now – the drum circles and chants and signs – is all they have. And they wonder why normal people see this “movement” as the temper tantrum it is?

Demands posted in OWS' name include a "guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"; a $20-an-hour minimum wage (above the $16 entry wage the United Auto Workers just negotiated with GM); ending "the fossil fuel economy"; "open borders" so "anyone can travel anywhere to work and live"; $1 trillion for infrastructure; $1 trillion for "ecological restoration" (e.g., re-establishing "the natural flow of river systems"); "free college education."
(This reminds me of the outcry the Right had regarding The Promise of America, a program teaching kids to read. They claimed the program spewed offensive socialist propaganda by saying horrible things like the People’s basic needs must be met. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care need to be overseen by our government system. Labor laws should ensure that people work in safe environments and that they are paid fairly for the work they do. Really controversial stuff apparently.)

It’s going to get ugly. And they’re going to lose.

OWS casts Barack Obama and the Democrats as the problem and will ultimately cost the Democrats the election.

Republicans support the tea party. Democrats don’t support OWS.

Occupy Wall Street is a loosely knit movement with opaque goals.

You cannot compare OWS to the tea party because the tea party attracted substantial financial backing.
(they really don’t get it do they?)

The tea party appeals to middle-class Americans who not only tend to have more money than the angry young people who are at the core of the “Occupy” movement, but who also tend to vote.

Do Democrats really think that casting Barack Obama as the enemy of business is going to win him this election? The real problem, politically speaking, with building a Democratic tea party on the back of Wall Street is that it is unlikely to elect more Democrats
(there is actually a sensical point in there somewhere, but first you have to accept the premise that OWS is the Democratic version of the tea party.)

Political instability caused by protesting is not good for the economy. (ya, cause things have been going so great until now.)

Protesting against business – or even just big business- is not going to lead those companies to hire more people
(Well, this assumes that they were actually hiring Americans in the first place. Most of Wall St companies don’t actually produce anything. They are giant gambling casinos. Manufacturing corporations are already moving their jobs and production overseas and getting big tax breaks to break our backs.)

Does OWS really think that this is how we boost consumer confidence?
(I guess they aren’t kidding when they say they don’t understand what all the protesting is about. The message really isn’t clear to these chowderheads.)


A couple of reference links so it doesn't look like I pulled this crap out of, well you know.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/1...nti-democracy/

http://www.newsmax.com/GeorgeWill/Oc...0/14/id/414495

http://www.newsmax.com/Estrich/Wall-...0/14/id/414455

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...A0conservatism

3 words, bat shit crazy.

[SoNotHer]

Well, I hate to revert to adolescence (at least for something like this), but the only response I have is a big "W" on my forehead and a gum-snapping "Whatever" rolled off my lips. :-0

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I keep thinking I need to know how the enemy is thinking, how they are going to come at this movement. But it's annoying to read this stuff and truly sometimes I wonder if it's really necessary cause it just puts me in a bad mood. On that note, here let me share it with you.

My comments are in parenthesis. I only made one when I really couldn't resist because truly this shit needs no commentary it speaks for itself.

What the Right is saying about the Occupy Wall Street movement

It’s a mob

The movement is made of spoiled lazy trust fund kids
(odd since it arose organically out of anger over pervasive economic injustice)

The movement lacks the nerve to engage in violence.

They’re mad. They’re getting violent. They don’t have a plan to work within the parameters of a civil society (The Constitution).

They are quite literally throwing a temper tantrum and demanding that “the rich” fork over more money to the government. Despite the predictable failure of Progressivism, they still think “the rich” paying more in taxes is going to lead to them getting a job. It’s almost sad to watch. I’d pity them if they weren’t a bunch of arrogant entitled brats.

The tea party inspired OWS.

Fewer people have participated in all the Occupy movements combined than attended just one tea party rally on the Washington Mall.

In comportment, OWS is to the tea party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield.
(This one actually rendered me speechless. So many thoughts flowed in at once that I gave up trying to articulate them. I’m truly gobsmacked.)

This “movement” has no idea what they’re going to do beyond “occupying” public parks across the country. They’re under the impression that simply making a lot of noise will somehow magically force Congress to pass the legislation necessary to make the changes they’re demanding. There is no plan B. What you see now – the drum circles and chants and signs – is all they have. And they wonder why normal people see this “movement” as the temper tantrum it is?

Demands posted in OWS' name include a "guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"; a $20-an-hour minimum wage (above the $16 entry wage the United Auto Workers just negotiated with GM); ending "the fossil fuel economy"; "open borders" so "anyone can travel anywhere to work and live"; $1 trillion for infrastructure; $1 trillion for "ecological restoration" (e.g., re-establishing "the natural flow of river systems"); "free college education."
(This reminds me of the outcry the Right had regarding The Promise of America, a program teaching kids to read. They claimed the program spewed offensive socialist propaganda by saying horrible things like the People’s basic needs must be met. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care need to be overseen by our government system. Labor laws should ensure that people work in safe environments and that they are paid fairly for the work they do. Really controversial stuff apparently.)

It’s going to get ugly. And they’re going to lose.

OWS casts Barack Obama and the Democrats as the problem and will ultimately cost the Democrats the election.

Republicans support the tea party. Democrats don’t support OWS.

Occupy Wall Street is a loosely knit movement with opaque goals.

You cannot compare OWS to the tea party because the tea party attracted substantial financial backing.
(they really don’t get it do they?)

The tea party appeals to middle-class Americans who not only tend to have more money than the angry young people who are at the core of the “Occupy” movement, but who also tend to vote.

Do Democrats really think that casting Barack Obama as the enemy of business is going to win him this election? The real problem, politically speaking, with building a Democratic tea party on the back of Wall Street is that it is unlikely to elect more Democrats
(there is actually a sensical point in there somewhere, but first you have to accept the premise that OWS is the Democratic version of the tea party.)

Political instability caused by protesting is not good for the economy. (ya, cause things have been going so great until now.)

Protesting against business – or even just big business- is not going to lead those companies to hire more people
(Well, this assumes that they were actually hiring Americans in the first place. Most of Wall St companies don’t actually produce anything. They are giant gambling casinos. Manufacturing corporations are already moving their jobs and production overseas and getting big tax breaks to break our backs.)

Does OWS really think that this is how we boost consumer confidence?
(I guess they aren’t kidding when they say they don’t understand what all the protesting is about. The message really isn’t clear to these chowderheads.)


A couple of reference links so it doesn't look like I pulled this crap out of, well you know.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/1...nti-democracy/

http://www.newsmax.com/GeorgeWill/Oc...0/14/id/414495

http://www.newsmax.com/Estrich/Wall-...0/14/id/414455

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...A0conservatism

[Cin]

Here are counters for how much we spend every second on war and for how much the government has lost in revenue because of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. I'm no economist; I'm not even that good with crunching numbers but I don't think it takes a degree in macroeconomics to get that ending these tax cuts and curtailing our government's penchant for making war would go a long, long way toward closing the deficit. Here are two of the biggest drains on our nation's budget and yet we are continually fed the same bullshit about people on welfare dragging us down. I tried to find a counter for how much money our government spends every second on welfare for its citizens, but there doesn't seem to be a counter for that. Nor is there one for how much the government spends every second on unemployment benefits. We are told demands for a fair wage, $20 an hour, is ridiculous. We are told guaranteeing a living wage for all, regardless of employment, is ridiculous. A single payer healthcare system and free college education...just ridiculous according to most of our nation's public officials.

The numbers flying by on these counters...if you ask me, that is the definition of ridiculous.

http://costoftaxcuts.com/

http://costofwar.com/en/

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Here are counters for how much we spend every second on war and for how much the government has lost in revenue because of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. I'm no economist; I'm not even that good with crunching numbers but I don't think it takes a degree in macroeconomics to get that ending these tax cuts and curtailing our government's penchant for making war would go a long, long way toward closing the deficit. Here are two of the biggest drains on our nation's budget and yet we are continually fed the same bullshit about people on welfare dragging us down. I tried to find a counter for how much money our government spends every second on welfare for its citizens, but there doesn't seem to be a counter for that. Nor is there one for how much the government spends every second on unemployment benefits. We are told demands for a fair wage, $20 an hour, is ridiculous. We are told guaranteeing a living wage for all, regardless of employment, is ridiculous. A single payer healthcare system and free college education...just ridiculous according to most of our nation's public officials.

The numbers flying by on these counters...if you ask me, that is the definition of ridiculous.

http://costoftaxcuts.com/

http://costofwar.com/en/

The saddest part about the cost of war one is that all of that money isn't worth the life lost in fighting these bullshit wars. That includes both sides.

[Cin]

“I have tried to be a man of letters in love with ideas in order to be a wiser and more loving person, hoping to leave the world just a little better than I found it.”
― Cornel West

[SoNotHer]

"It's already historic." I've seen Dr. West in a lot of interviews and talks, but I've never seen him this animated.

I love how this movement is reawakening our humanity, our hope, our fight.

:-)

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

“I have tried to be a man of letters in love with ideas in order to be a wiser and more loving person, hoping to leave the world just a little better than I found it.”
― Cornel West

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Sachita

US Soldiers Are Waking Up! War is a Racket - YouTube

this is really powerful. I'm not sure how to embed

Probably my favorite video so far. I guess the brainwashing didn't work on him.