Butch/Femme Dynamic vs "Masculinity" and "Femininity"

EnderD_503 · 10-19-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfMadeMan

By that, I mean, what is usually considered femme attributes (wearing makeup, dressing feminine, etc etc)

This is what I read into SMM's post as well. That he meant that there are certain stereotypes about butches and femmes, and that his wife doesn't fit the stereotype of femme/what is stereotypically expected of femme gender expression, not that he was trying to reinforce the stereotype. When he said "normative" I figured he meant that stereotype.

SelfMadeMan · 10-19-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

This is what I read into SMM's post as well. That he meant that there are certain stereotypes about butches and femmes, and that his wife doesn't fit the stereotype of femme/what is stereotypically expected of femme gender expression, not that he was trying to reinforce the stereotype. When he said "normative" I figured he meant that stereotype.

Thank you. I think my subsequent posts made it pretty clear that I don't buy into the norms/stereotypes... lol, I just love how I come in to support people's right to be who/what they want to regardless of societal norms and regardless of society's gender constructs and get the 3rd degree. Ah well, can't win 'em all

SelfMadeMan · 10-19-2011, 10:55 AM

Just for clarification... here's some of what *I* believe:

You can be born biologically female and ID as male and deserve to be respected as such (with or without medical intervention) and vice versa

You can be male or female (biologically or not) and be butch, or femme, or masculine or androgynous - or any other label that works for YOU, or REFUSE to be labeled - regardless of what anyone else thinks or assumes

You can be butch and wear make-up, wear anything that you choose - ANYTHING and still be butch and be respected as such.

You can be femme and wear jeans and steel toe boots and t-shirts, or ANYTHING else you choose and still be femme and respected as such.

You can be/do YOU - any way YOU choose, and not have to pick a label - just be YOU.

If you are TG and don't want to take hormones, and don't want to have your breasts removed, you are no less TG.

I believe everyone has the right to ID however they choose and say THIS is who I am - and not have to justify their identity to anyone. Period.

weatherboi · 10-19-2011, 10:56 AM

Uhhh nobody here is giving you the third degree. I asked for clarification with a thank you in advance. I am not sure if more niceties are needed than that for a forum conversation. I am not sure if the victimology you are owning about your experience is fair considering I asked for clarification and gave a thank you in advance. It is a discussion for me, it is not about winning, it is about learning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfMadeMan

Thank you. I think my subsequent posts made it pretty clear that I don't buy into the norms/stereotypes... lol, I just love how I come in to support people's right to be who/what they want to regardless of societal norms and regardless of society's gender constructs and get the 3rd degree. Ah well, can't win 'em all

10-19-2011, 10:55 AM	#3
SelfMadeMan Member How Do You Identify?: Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?: Male Relationship Status: Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 802 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 796 Thanked 2,668 Times in 527 Posts Rep Power: 18972345	Just for clarification... here's some of what I believe: You can be born biologically female and ID as male and deserve to be respected as such (with or without medical intervention) and vice versa You can be male or female (biologically or not) and be butch, or femme, or masculine or androgynous - or any other label that works for YOU, or REFUSE to be labeled - regardless of what anyone else thinks or assumes You can be butch and wear make-up, wear anything that you choose - ANYTHING and still be butch and be respected as such. You can be femme and wear jeans and steel toe boots and t-shirts, or ANYTHING else you choose and still be femme and respected as such. You can be/do YOU - any way YOU choose, and not have to pick a label - just be YOU. If you are TG and don't want to take hormones, and don't want to have your breasts removed, you are no less TG. I believe everyone has the right to ID however they choose and say THIS is who I am - and not have to justify their identity to anyone. Period.