OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Gráinne]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I think coming into a thread that is 45 pages long and asking questions that have been addressed at length might be a clue to one of the problems we are all facing as a nation and as a planet. Regardless of all the information that is available, regardless of what is actually happening right in front of us, many of us are not able to see it.

I think it reflects a problem with the OWS movement, that there are a whole bunch of disparate groups with competing issues, and no one is able to make a concise list of say, the top 5 demands, that satisfies everyone and even more importantly, a firm plan besides occupying parks and "raising consciousness", for accomplishing these goals.

As you said, this thread is 45 pages long with lots of quotes, articles and vague ideas, but I haven't seen any list and how disrupting others' use of public property helps the cause.

[persiphone]

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...BstoryMediaBox


Congress: Trading stock on inside information?
November 13, 2011 4:02 PM

Steve Kroft reports that members of Congress can legally trade stock based on non-public information from Capitol Hill.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...#ixzz1dgzDM1gh

[persiphone]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think it reflects a problem with the OWS movement, that there are a whole bunch of disparate groups with competing issues, and no one is able to make a concise list of say, the top 5 demands, that satisfies everyone and even more importantly, a firm plan besides occupying parks and "raising consciousness", for accomplishing these goals.

As you said, this thread is 45 pages long with lots of quotes, articles and vague ideas, but I haven't seen any list and how disrupting others' use of public property helps the cause.

huh?

actually, you're right. there are so many different ways that corruption has run rampant in this country that's it's SUPER hard to narrow it down to just ONE.

[ruffryder]

I went to Orlando pride yesterday. I've been to a few pride gatherings but not a parade. So, during the parade and looking at the booths I see support for our LGBT community and I see this from a few huge banks and politicians. . . I mean they are always trying to gain support from the community but it seemed so prevalent and I wondered if it had anything to do with the occupying going on and trying to keep people, "our community's" business and interest.

... and I just had to think about how some of these huge businesses have really supported the LGBT community and offer domestic and partner insurance and health care.

I know I will get some of you saying they also want to take our money and steal from us, etc., etc., I wasn't coming on to debate this. It was just something I took note of at a Pride event.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

I went to Orlando pride yesterday. I've been to a few pride gatherings but not a parade. So, during the parade and looking at the booths I see support for our LGBT community and I see this from a few huge banks and politicians. . . I mean they are always trying to gain support from the community but it seemed so prevalent and I wondered if it had anything to do with the occupying going on and trying to keep people, "our community's" business and interest.

... and I just had to think about how some of these huge businesses have really supported the LGBT community and offer domestic and partner insurance and health care.

I know I will get some of you saying they also want to take our money and steal from us, etc., etc., I wasn't coming on to debate this. It was just something I took note of at a Pride event.

There is a belief that gays/lesbians make more money than heterosexuals. http://joeclark.org/gaymoney/marketing/

Subsequently, big business wants to be nice to us.

[SoNotHer]

By even calling it "Obamacare," health care opportunities for millions have been mislabeled, misunderstood and misrepresented. I'm not given health benefits at my job. Do you know someone else who is living without health care or who is paying out of pocket?


Supreme Court to Decide Fate of Obama's Health Care Law

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2490...titutional.htm

The U.S. Supreme Court Monday announced that the justices will hear arguments on the constitutionality of President Barack Obama's health care reform law, the centerpiece of his agenda.

The justices decided to take on four legal challenges to the Affordable Care Act. They will hear five and a half hours of oral arguments. The biggest issue for the nine justices will be the constitutionality of the law's mandate that most Americans carry health insurance.

Other legal issues on "Obamacare" that will get attention from the justices include whether the entire law can stand if the mandate is struck down, the law's Medicaid extension is constitutional and if an obscure tax law blocks any legal challenge to the law.

The Obama administration and the group of states will get two hours to argue the constitutionality of the individual mandate. Another hour will be allotted for arguments on whether legal challenges to the Affordable Care Act can be heard.

The obscure tax law, called the Anti-Injunction Act, essentially prohibits federal courts from hearing cases challenging a tax before it is paid. This applies to health care reform because people who refuse to get health insurance will get hit with a tax penalty. This could give the justices a way to avoid a decision on the constitutionality of the individual mandate.

Meanwhile, two "Obamacare" challenges -- a case from 27 state attorneys general and a small business group -- were consolidated. The justices granted the parties 90 minutes to argue whether all of the Affordable Care Act must fall if the individual mandate is severed.

The final issue for the justices will be an expansion of Medicaid. Under the Affordable Care Act, the eligibility requirements for Medicaid are expanded. States must cover these new Medicaid enrollees. Though the federal government will cover the cost of the expansion, states will start kicking in 5 percent of the costs in 2017 and 10 percent in 2020. The justices will decide if Congress exceeded its authority in passing that provision into law.

So far, lower appellate courts have split on the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act. A decision from the high court is expected this summer in the thick of the 2012 presidential election season.

[ruffryder]

Looks like Denver's occupy movement is getting shut down.

http://thedenverchannel.com

DENVER -- Denver police have ordered Occupy Denver protestors to remove belongings from Civic Center parks where demonstrators have been camping off-and-on for the past month.
Early Friday, police officers handed out written notices warning protestors, "It is illegal to place … any article, vehicle or thing whatsoever" on the public right of way, including “any street, alley, sidewalk, parkway or other public way or place.”
"PLEASE REMOVE ALL PERSONAL ITEMS FROM THIS AREA," the notice stated, adding that those who fail to remove belongings could face up to one year in jail and a $999 fine.

"If personal items are not removed immediately, you may be subject to an order of removal at which time all items will be subject to removal by the Denver Police Department," the police notice said.
The Denver Post reported that about 25 people removed their property and some left the park area.
"I was given one of these (notices). When I asked about it, a cop told me 'You can’t have all these couches, chairs and tables blocking the sidewalk,'" an activist posted on the Occupy Denver website.
Another person posted: "So, is this a way of getting people off the sidewalk as well as out of the park? (Denver Mayor Michael) Hancock is showing his true colors as an enemy of our First Amendment rights. Recall, anyone?"
Clashes between protestors and police over illegal overnight camping in Lincoln Park, where officers have repeatedly removed tents, tables and other gear, have triggered arrests and protests since early October.

This article here http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...48/detail.html details officers getting injured and more people getting arrested as the occupy protest become violent in Denver. It seems they are not supposed to have personal belongings blocking and taking up space on public sidewalks.

[Toughy]

It is not too much regulation that bankrupted Wall Street.........it is too LITTLE regulation on how paper is bundled and passed back and forth between financial institutions.

Most of the 1% want to pay their fair share in taxes. Warren Buffett made that clear and there is information out there about that. Warren Buffett (and all of those in the 1% plus the multi-national corporations) should not be paying a smaller percentage in taxes than I pay. Not fair, not right, not just, not ethical.

This is a MOVEMENT, not a single issue cause. It's messy. Movements rarely can be consicely put to paper. The goal is economic justice for all. If it makes someone happy, then the demand is economic justice.

The fact that homeless and mentally ill people are flocking to the Occupy encampments speaks volumes to economic injustice. The politicians and police are using violence occurring because of this as a reason to shut down the encampments. It's 'not safe' for you to be camped out on public property. Violence and death is occurring within and around the camps. Safety is paramount....safety safety safety.

[Toughy]

They did shut down Occupy Oakland this morning about 5:00am. From what I can tell it was peaceful and about 33 folks where arrested. They will not be allowed to return.

edited to add: at the press conference Mayor Quan suggested OO find private property like Occupy NY......interesting thought from her.

[SoNotHer]

So as winter comes on, and the OWS movements get shut down, the movement will hopefully find new ways to keep the momentum going. I was reading the news this morning about foreclosures for the third quarter. The percentage jump in foreclosures sometimes equal to the loss in value of the home in some cities. The debt, the loss, the suffering, the crisis continues -

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/galle...-foreclosures/

10. Columbus, Ohio

Quarterly increase in foreclosures: +32%
# of Foreclosures Q3 2011: 2,273
Unemployment: 7.6%
% home value down from peak: -12.42%

Columbus hit its median home value peak in the first quarter of 2006. Since that time, home values have declined a relatively modest 12.4%, including a 3.4% drop last year. By the second quarter of 2012, Fiserv projects that homes in the area will lose another 2.3% of their value. Median family income in Columbus is above the national average, and unemployment is just 8%, a full percentage point less than the national average. Despite the fact that things don’t look so bad for the Columbus housing market compared to other regions, the city foreclosure rate still increased by 32% last quarter. A total of 2,273 homes were foreclosed upon during that time.

9. Cape Coral-Fort Myers, Fla.

Quarterly increase in foreclosures: +35%
# of Foreclosures Q3 2011: 1,743
Unemployment: 11.2%
% home value down from peak: -59.3%

There is arguably no single housing market with a worse long-term outlook than southwest Florida, and the Cape Coral-Fort Myers region is the worst of these. Housing prices in the have already dropped 59.3% from their peak, and Fiserv project them to decline another 12.2% by the second quarter of next year. According to Corelogic, 47% of the homes in the Cape Coral-Fort Myers area are worth less than their mortgages because of declining values. Foreclosures have increased 35% in the last quarter, and with no sign of recovery in the immediate future that trend may worsen in the coming months.

7. Fresno, Calif.

Quarterly increase in foreclosures: +41%
# of Foreclosures Q3 2011: 2,174
Unemployment: 14.9%
% home value down from peak: -54%

Fresno’s economy has continued to suffer since housing prices began to drop in 2006. It currently has an unemployment rate of 14.9%, which is one of the highest in the country. Home prices peaked in the first quarter of 2006 and have been decreasing since. The metropolitan area also has one of the highest underwater mortgage rates in the country, with a negative equity share of nearly 46%. In the last year alone home prices have dropped 11%.

5. Jacksonville, Fla.

Quarterly increase in foreclosures: +49%
# of Foreclosures Q3 2011: 2,559
Unemployment: 9.5%
% home value down from peak: -39.3%

Jacksonville has experienced a quarterly increase in foreclosures of nearly 50%. Home prices have dropped 39.1% since their peak in the second quarter of 2006. The metropolitan area’s negative equity share also exceeds 46%, making it among the worst in the country for underwater mortgages. Home prices are expected to decrease another 10.7% by the second quarter of 2012.

3. Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice, Fla.

Quarterly increase in foreclosures: +57%
# of Foreclosures Q3 2011: 1,673
Unemployment: 11%
% home value down from peak: -51.4%

The Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice metropolitan area has seen the third largest increase in the country in foreclosures in the third quarter. However, only 1,673 homes out of the 311,475 on the market were foreclosed upon. The housing market has suffered a great deal since housing prices peaked in the first quarter of 2006. Since then, overall home prices have dropped 51.4%

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think it reflects a problem with the OWS movement, that there are a whole bunch of disparate groups with competing issues, and no one is able to make a concise list of say, the top 5 demands, that satisfies everyone and even more importantly, a firm plan besides occupying parks and "raising consciousness", for accomplishing these goals.

As you said, this thread is 45 pages long with lots of quotes, articles and vague ideas, but I haven't seen any list and how disrupting others' use of public property helps the cause.

If my memory serves me, the chief complaint at the start of the movement was that not one CEO, CFO or multi-millionaire at the top of Wall Street firms and the US banking system has been charged and prosecuted for wrong doing since the major collapses in 2008. This is something that has bothered me since that time along with those that "packaged" bogus securities which were sold internationally at the tune of mega-millions and even billions.

This and the fact that the regulations put in place to ward off future corruption like this really have no bite. And some of these very same practices are continuing right now!

Unless these "big wigs" are held criminally accountable- it will not stop. This would be at the top of my list of 5!

[Cin]

Originally Posted by guihong

I think it reflects a problem with the OWS movement, that there are a whole bunch of disparate groups with competing issues, and no one is able to make a concise list of say, the top 5 demands, that satisfies everyone and even more importantly, a firm plan besides occupying parks and "raising consciousness", for accomplishing these goals.

As you said, this thread is 45 pages long with lots of quotes, articles and vague ideas, but I haven't seen any list and how disrupting others' use of public property helps the cause.

Occupy Wall Street chose to occupy near ground zero of the cause of the financial crisis that nearly destroyed the world's economy. It's symbolic. It grew from there.

Why would the movement be interested at this time in making a list of demands? Clearly there are still people who are confused about the basics. They still think regulation caused the housing bubble that burst and that minorities buying houses they couldn't afford destabilized the economy of the entire world. They still believe deregulating Wall Street even further is a good idea. I think raising consciousness is a very worthy goal. There is no real hurry to rush to a list of demands. Shining a light where there was only darkness will ultimately be very useful. Many people are starting to understand that giving corporation tax breaks when they move their business out of the U.S. is not going to create jobs for us. Giving tax breaks and bail outs to corporations has yet to develop into more jobs. And it's not going to. We need more jobs not more tax breaks and bail outs. If that doesn't work for you , then it doesn't work for you. But that is what I see as something that will actually help the economy.

The fact is political campaigns are financed by corporations naturally that means that politicians have the interests of the rich as their first and in some cases only priority. Until we can get Wall Street out of Washington we will not have fair elections or fair legislation and we will not have elected officials who make decisions with the best interest of all the people and of the United States, itself, foremost on their minds. If that doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you.

But to say that these ideas are vague makes no sense. I really could go into all sorts of depth explaining further but I sense you really just don't agree with the issues as I see them. And that's fine. But I don't think the ideas are vague at all. You don't have to agree with them but they are indeed clear enough.