What is Forgiveness?

[christie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I am interested in forgiveness being a trainable skill. I would love to train myself to forgive.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who has ever asked me for forgiveness has gotten it...in general I would say I am a very forgiving person. And I am not talking about smallslights... I am trying to learn to forgive someone who gaslighted me all my life and is no longer around.

People say so many things about how I have to just let it go, and I have no idea how.

Yes, I am in therapy.

This is a tough one.

For me, the crux is forgiving when it hasn't been asked for - when the offender may not have a bloody clue as to the impact of the words, the actions, the inactions or nonwords.

I think that when we don't freely forgive these "trespasses" that we wind up just bottling that hurt up inside and I do think, as others have wisely stated here, that WE are the ones suffering for it. We stuff that hurt, anger and betrayal down and the negativity usually manifests in our health or in our interactions with the world.

Sometimes, when I can't just seem to "get over it", I put it on paper. I write a letter as if I were going to send it to that person. Once its on paper (or in Word) I get rid of it. I've been known to burn the actual paper (not to be confused with setting an ex's stuff on fire at the edge of her yard. Enough bourbon and it SOUNDED like a good idea - but that is another thread about the follies of youth). If I typed it out on the PC, I delete it.

Its symbolic for me in that I am making that decision to be done with it - either in the pressing of the delete key or by striking that match.

I've also been known to ask for a cathartic "scene". Its been quite a while since I've needed that level of purging of the negative energy, but who knows, maybe its something I need.

I'm sure others have their own ways in letting go. I'd be interested to hear them.

((((((((((((((((jen)))))))))))))) I've missed you posting!

Christie

[Apocalipstic]

Actually my therapist mentioned having some sort of ceremonial burning of something. Maybe a letter is the way to go?

I sent him (My father) a letter 12 years ago stating how I felt and demanding that I be treated with respect....We never spoke again.

Maybe I will start writing how I feel about the whole thing, then burn the letter with tons of sage or something. I had no idea what to burn, thank you so much.

For my sister the cremation was enough, somehow I need more. Man am I high maintenance!
Hey that made me laugh...cool!

[Daywalker]

I have a personal belief...that although making amends and forgiveness
are 2 different things...I have 'made amends' with a few this year
and that seems to ease the need to forgive.

Rehashing is not always a good thing...for me.

[Nina]

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

[PearlsNLace]

Forgiveness is what I find after working my 4th and 5th step in recovery. Its something I do when I am finding myself really holding on to big hurts.

In the fourth step, for hose of you who are not familiar with the process, I write out my resentments. These are the things I am harboring grudges over. I write it out in a traditional “Big Book” way, with columns. One column for the person I resent, one for why I resent, one column for my part, and another for an affirmation or blessing for the situation.

In the fifth step I share this with another human, in my case, it’s my Sponsor who although not a licensed professional, he certainly knows this process well and is good at getting me to think. Im really blessed to have him in my life.

When it comes to Loves, and relationships, this is a part of what is the “sexual inventory”
By doing this enough, there are patterns of character defects in ME I get to see when I go through this process. I find that when ~ I'm~ really having a hard time letting go of a hurt, its because I personally am playing victim, I'm holding people up to my expectations, and/or I'm feeling quite entitled to an outcome I didn’t get.

Somehow, going through this process allows me to find forgiveness. For both myself and for the person I've written down in the first column.

[julieisafemme]

I am finding that I can't forgive until I have forgiven myself. That is proving to be difficult.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Daywalker

I have a personal belief...that although making amends and forgiveness
are 2 different things...I have 'made amends' with a few this year
and that seems to ease the need to forgive.

Rehashing is not always a good thing...for me.

I wonder if I am gaining anyting by rehashing. The details do not always match up, and I wonder what really happened. I wonder do I have to know what happened exactly to accept it?

Its usually easy for me to forgive, I just get stuck on family stuff.

Originally Posted by Neen

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

Interesting post. Lot's to think about.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I am finding that I can't forgive until I have forgiven myself. That is proving to be difficult.

I think we are always harder on ourselves than on anyone else.
Sometimes, just becasue someone else thinks we failed them, does not mean we did.
Be easy on yourself Julie!

[PearlsNLace]

I have found that I have to come to a place of forgiveness- towards self, and others, way before I come to the space of making amends.

If I dont, then I am too attached to outcomes I want- how I want others to respond and as a control freak that is really an easy trap to make.

I have found that some stuff happens, and Im just not ready to rehash it. I leave it be, really, until I see that there is something in my way of being happy. I work through things on an as needed basis because if I push it on MY timeline it doesnt work, and I end up doing the work all over again anyway.

There is a time to let go. And a time to pick things up again. And sometimes I need a little perspective outside of my little bubble to find out when those times are.

[Liquefaction]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I think we are always harder on ourselves than on anyone else.
Sometimes, just becasue someone else thinks we failed them, does not mean we did.
Be easy on yourself Julie!

I needed the read this!

Thank you!!!

[hpychick]

Neen - thank you show much for showing up and demonstrating your perception and utilization of forgiveness or acceptance.

I enjoy reading the diverse views and hope this place (site) remains a venue of inclusion.

Truly looking forward to reading and learning more of you.

Sunny

Originally Posted by Neen

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

[Gemme]

I have read a lot of things that appeal to me in here. I want to be able to forgive but I'm not there yet. I learned the victim mentality at my mother's knee and I learned it well. It's taken me years and years to get where I am now, which is less victim and more vigilante, but a step is a step in the right direction.

I've been angry for a very, very long time and I don't see that changing soon. But I do see it changing, which is more than I would have said a couple of years ago. Once again, progress is progress, no matter how slow. Maybe it's like weight loss? Maybe the longer it takes to reach that place of acceptance and forgiveness, the more likely it will be to stick.

[Spirit Dancer]

In my space, after years of practice
Forgiveness is closing the book on that experiece, reminding oneself it's history.

Now there are times, I may still have a trigger effect.

[Greyson]

Thanks for starting this thread Blade. I myself get caught up in the daily hustle bustle of life and forget to ponder the notions of life that really do give me the gift of humanity.

There are times when I need to find forgiveness for my actions. There are times I want to forgive someone or something that I perceive to have hurt or harmed me in some way. I think overall it is easier for me to forgive others. I do not live in their head, their skin. I do not know their every flaw, thought or action. With myself, I know. Even when I try to ignore my shortcomings.

For me at times forgiveness includes redemption. I must do something to try and bring things back into balance. I don't think mistakes, missteps are some sort of sin. I think actions that require redemption and forgiveness are things I do that are not the authentic Greyson.

Is redemption part of anyones path to forgiveness? If so, how do you find redemption? I have posted one definition of the word, "redeemed."

To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of: You botched the last job but can redeem yourself on this one.

As a side note, Did you see Katie Lang singing "Hallelujah" in the opening ceremony for the Vancouver Winter Olympics? The irony of life. Here we have a Dyke, Gender Variant Queer person on the world stage bringing us all together for a moment in time. I think maybe this act of kindness, her sharing her gift of song with the world, perhaps required some forgiveness of wrongs made against her in her lifetime.