What influences our reactions to sexual abuse/exploitation of children?

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I'm the guilty thread starer on the eve of the Superbowl, I did another thread this year. My reaction comes from the constant abuse, neglect, and oppression of children.

Children for me are something we ALL should be safeguarding, protecting, always looking out for, (I could say this about women to but that is a whole other thread). Children don't have a voice like we adults do, children aren't given a choice, children are vulnerable..

"For example, on the eve of the Super Bowl last year, the sex slave trade which abounds during sporting events rendered some pretty intense reactions that lasted a good long time"

This statement is not entirely correct, you see children are being literally *specially* ordered the 4 to 10 year olds are requested because their tiny bodies are prepubescent and queer kids are even a bigger market because these men and women who are purchasing them are requesting children like they are fucking Big Mac's. That's what the Superbowl brings, a bunch of sick mother fuckers ordering babies up like they were hashbrowns, FIFA same thing, the Superbowl still being the biggest sex marketing event to happen but you never ever hear about it.

I am one of those people who reacts *strongly* when it comes to the abuse of children, and when I have decided to share it with this particular online venue I have read the reactions of people and I am shocked because frankly to me and this is from my view point.

Sports matter more, quarter backs matter more, children, eh they are just simply children and they don't have entertainment value.

That's what gripes my ass, the lack of value we place on the children.

I have always, will always have that reaction when it comes to any stories regarding children, after last years fiasco with the thread I learned one thing. I can share my anger, rage about it with people who are close to me and get it.

This venue I can't simply because it drives me batty crazy to see someone like that POS Paterno glorified, why?

Football is more important, that is the message I got with that matter and with the Superbowl matter.


I hope that one day all that money the NFL makes, the Catholic church has, or any other organization with that kind of power will take it upon themselves and start doing some right with that power and that our children are no longer victims.

I have no love or empathy for ANYONE that dares harm a human in vile ways, I can't even express the thoughts I have for people who harm children because for me it's unthinkable.

That's where my reaction comes from, I see children and I see innocence not profit.


As for the other sick fucks who do harm to kids, I feel the same and though we may hear about their crimes, their crimes aren't gonna affect someones big fat paycheck and rep (Paterno) so the message is clear, fuck the kids, there's plenty out there but Football (or any other high money making organization run by a bunch of sexist, opressing, disgusting people) no that HAS to be saved..

After all where would one place million dollar commercial at?

OH wait we could give that to the kids or women, or schools..

That will never happen though....


I could go on for HOURS about the Catholic Church and their heinous crimes against children but if I did I would offend A LOT of Catholics because in my eyes they are choosing to ignore that that church is FILLED with CRIMINALS...

No one likes to hear that either...

Damn right we ALL have a responsibility to children! This is where the social democrat in me goes viral. True for the elder abuse- any abuse of a defenseless person. In all of my years working with children of sexual abuse, those that turned their eyes away that could have done something had as much wrath from me as the offenders. It is just not hard to pick up the damn phone and make a call. You can remain anonymous.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by AtLast

Damn right we ALL have a responsibility to children! This is where the social democrat in me goes viral. True for the elder abuse- any abuse of a defenseless person. In all of my years working with children of sexual abuse, those that turned their eyes away that could have done something had as much wrath from me as the offenders. It is just not hard to pick up the damn phone and make a call. You can remain anonymous.

Latest example:

Joe Paterno and all The Cronies who knew that were in a position of power at Penn State.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi :

So, what kinds of things influence your reactions to this?


__________________________________________________ ________



I thought about this thread before going to sleep, and I guess my answer to this particular question would be..

How could we not have reactions?

These are children.... We SHOULD be reacting..... A damn fucking shame we don't, yet if it's a dog being abused well then it's got your (general) attention...

That's pretty fucked up in my book...

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Originally Posted by Kobi :

So, what kinds of things influence your reactions to this?


__________________________________________________ ________



I thought about this thread before going to sleep, and I guess my answer to this particular question would be..

How could we not have reactions?

These are children.... We SHOULD be reacting..... A damn fucking shame we don't, yet if it's a dog being abused well then it's got your (general) attention...

That's pretty fucked up in my book...

I dont think I have ever encountered another human who doesnt have a reaction to this. The intensity of the reactions I do see varies which is why I was curious as to how others see their own personal reactions.

Snowy, your passion for this topic is impressive. I wish I had that freedom. As someone who worked in this field for decades, I had to learn to mute my reactions for the sake of what I was doing. It is a hard lesson to unlearn.

The closest I might come to being as passionate as you is when talking about the ways in which the laws and systems to help these kids often fail to do the job in ways that actual help kids. The laws are good, the systems need work, more viable options are needed, and better judges are imperative.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I dont think I have ever encountered another human who doesnt have a reaction to this. The intensity of the reactions I do see varies which is why I was curious as to how others see their own personal reactions.

Snowy, your passion for this topic is impressive. I wish I had that freedom. As someone who worked in this field for decades, I had to learn to mute my reactions for the sake of what I was doing. It is a hard lesson to unlearn.

The closest I might come to being as passionate as you is when talking about the ways in which the laws and systems to help these kids often fail to do the job in ways that actual help kids. The laws are good, the systems need work, more viable options are needed, and better judges are imperative.

Seeing you don't work in that field no more, I see no reason why you can't be just as passionate. I was surprised at your Paterno thoughts in your RIP thread, as much as you are about not being oppressed seeing you excuse Paterno was rather shocking.


The laws regarding our children SUCK, animals have more protection in this country than a poor child.... The outcry over dogs in comparison to a childs life amazes me..

[aishah]

in my experience, most people will say they give a shit or act shocked and appalled, but when push comes to shove, meaning whenever it pushes them out of their comfortable little bubble, they usually don't. (not talking about anyone here, but this has been my experience offline with this topic.) when it means talking about child abuse and sexual violence as though it actually exists and impacts people, in order to bring real awareness to the issues, most people are too uncomfortable. when it means actually taking action for the sake of a situation in their community or family, most people would rather gossip about it and share their opinion (which in my experience often involves a lot of excusing the abuser) rather than actually do something that might help. i get that there are all sorts of social and psychological justifications for why people go out of their way to NOT give a fuck, but i don't think that ever excuses it.

[Martina]

It's a weird question, finally. i think it is normal to react. It's a function of our innate empathy for the pain of others and our innate anxiety regarding the vulnerability of the weak and small.

Lots of things could get people to react less intensely:

being taught that children and women are property
working in a field exposing one to victims and their stories
being victimized oneself
being a predator oneself

i think that people who can't handle it and turn away are sometimes the people who respond most strongly. To actually NOT respond, i imagine, takes some training, some desensitization.

i sometimes think i have heard it all when something like that LA teacher story comes out and i am overwhelmed with disgust, pity and anger. The same thing happened when the story of the pediatrician in Delaware made the papers.

i still think it's a weird question. It is normal to respond. It doesn't take outside influences. It's a basic human response. What is abnormal is to have that response muffled in some way by culture or individual life experience.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Seeing you don't work in that field no more, I see no reason why you can't be just as passionate. I was surprised at your Paterno thoughts in your RIP thread, as much as you are about not being oppressed seeing you excuse Paterno was rather shocking.


The laws regarding our children SUCK, animals have more protection in this country than a poor child.... The outcry over dogs in comparison to a childs life amazes me..

I dont know if I can explain why I reacted to the stuff with Paterno in a way that will help you to understand. But, I will try.

I learned early in my career, that my passion for doing the right thing and the law did not always jive. People are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers. My gut, my feelings, even my evidence was suspect until it could be proven and even then, there was no guarantee the result would be what I wanted or expected.

Feelings are not proof. Passion is not proof. Allegations are not proof. Sometimes even proof isnt proof enough- it was a hard lesson to learn.

This stuff in the ideal world is a black and white issue. In the real world it is full of gray areas and that what makes it so difficult and complicated and frustrating.

I dont know what happened at Penn State. I know what the media said but is that irrefutable fact? Is a football coach a mandated reporter of something he didnt see or is he just ethically and legally obligated to report what was reported to him to his superiors? What is the Penn States policy and procedure on this? What is the state law on this? From what I read on the story, if Penn is anything like Massachustts, I could poke holds in every story I read.

Regardless, these are all allegations until proven to be truth in a court of law. The media is not a court of law. The media sometimes reports things later found to be untrue or half truths. But, the damage is already done. Reputations are ruined, careers are ruined, familys are ruined. And then what....say oops sorry, we made a boo boo?

Even getting a conviction doesnt mean the evidence was always correct. Think of the number of men who have spent decades in jail for rapes they were later found not to be guilty of via DNA testing.

Judging and pronouncing judgement on other people is a tricky thing. It is evaluating and weighing stuff and taking the appropriate action based on what you hope, in your heart, is the right thing.

People want it to be simple and clearcut. It isnt. People want someone to blame, someone to hold accountable. Sometimes people are willing to invoke viligante justice cuz it makes us feel better. It makes us feel like we have done something. It makes us not feel helpless. But is it the right thing to do?

I wont judge Paterno because I dont know what happened and I dont believe in vigilante justice. I cant judge a dead guy who cant even defend himself. It irks me that he will most likely be dragged thru the mud while people are clamoring to cover their collective asses. He is dead. He is the perfect scapegoat for those left living who are facing jailtime and massive law suits from victims. But, I still dont and doubt I ever will know what happened there.

And I wont judge Paterno, because I have been there. I am a mandated reporter. I know the system. I know how it works and how to use it. I have sat in courtrooms with my i's dotted, my t's crossed, with everything any normal human being would need short of a video of a kid getting sodomized, to get a conviction or at least an order of protection. And, I failed to get it. Want to know how I was blamed for not doing enough or not doing the right thing? Want to know how much I blamed myself?

People want it to be easy, need it to be easy. It isnt. And, to me, until we deal with the stuff that makes this not easy, the problem will continue. And that makes me livid. But I'm not sure even my livid would match your passion.

Maybe this will help you understand better. I dont know.

[Martina]

By the way, i think you should have been less graphic in the OP or given more of a warning. Some of these details are extreme. The title is clearly about sexual abuse, but it does not warn of graphic details.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Thanks for your post, and no it doesn't help me understand but thanks for trying.

There's really nothing that can get me to understand after reading the grand jury report, this man was gross (Sandusky) from being caught the first time with a young boy on a wrestling mat to he himself admitting showering with a child.

Who showers with a child?

Who ignores that some dude, some old dude is showering with kids.

Let me tell ya Kobi, there is nothing *normal* or *right* about a grown ass man showering with a young child.

That's just not what we do as adults with other peoples kids it's not right, it's creepy and it should not be done.


Paterno was told, he should of kept *SCREAMING* at the top of his lungs that something was not right with his right hand man.

He could of been a big hero, and though we don't really know how that went down I do know one thing.

Men love to cover shit up, look at the Powell case..


Men love their money, their fame, their football, their reputations more than they value, or love women and children.

So it's not really hard to imagine that Paterno knew, talked to his buddy and told him to get his shit under control and then *hoped* it would go away.

10 alleged victims and you being in the field you were know that serial pedophiles aren't gonna just stop Sandusky had access to hundreds of children Lord knows how many young men he fucked up.


Wanna know why no one cares to much about those boys, they are boys who come from low economic backgrounds, single mom homes they were prime targets for someone as sick as him.

Anyways until *WE* that means all of us see our women and children with value, (cause cars, dogs, suits, Football, etc etc have more value than them) nothing will change and because of that WE should ALL be outraged, angry, upset, passionate and speak out against it and try to change it.


That's all I really have to say about this particular subject because now I feel I am going in circles trying to *give* the right answer to a very peculiar question.

[Kätzchen]

I go from zero to rage in micro-seconds when it comes down to any human being hurt by another human being.

People do a ton of face work when they've got something to hide
(as illustrated in my personal account below):


Years ago, I came home early from work to pick up my two sons from a place of so-called safety (a married couple in the neighborhood who had street cred's backed up by the school, police agency, etc) only to find out that the husband was 'doing my oldest son' because he wouldn't mind him, etc. I was so fucking upset to walk in on what he was doing to my son that I couldn't say anything; but I gathered up my two sons, cried while I was walking home with my youngest in my arms and my oldest sitting on my shoulders (I wanted them near me and not to walk after all they had been through), called an officer who knew me personally, pressed charges, and made sure everyone in the community knew that this well respected family was not safe at all.

[Greyson]

I think most have some level of reaction when hearing about children being abused, molested, harmed. I also think there are many variables that do influence how we react to this.

Something that stuck out for me in this recent case of the Los Angeles City School was that most of the children were children of a very disenfranchised group of people, undocumented people primarily from Mexico and Cental America. How could something like this be going on for years and no one knows? I think people do know or suspect and look the other way. They may not "look the other way" conciously but somewhere inside of their mind, world view there is life experience, societal conciousness,informing their decisions.

Power in this country translates into Money and Authority, real or perceived. I am not saying it is okay for a child of privlege to be harmed. What I am saying is that children that come from the fringes of our "acceptable" circumstances seem to get overlooked more frequently and for longer periods of time.