"You should grow your hair out longer" lol

apretty · 03-01-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Words

Being butch is all about having short hair?

Oh boy, are you setting yourself up for some ass whooping. LOL...

Words

I didn't read the OP as stating that being butch is all about... short hair--I did read her as saying that she didn't want to have a conversation with a co-worker about what *butch* means.

Am I way off?

Cuddles · 03-01-2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty

I didn't read the OP as stating that being butch is all about... short hair--I did read her as saying that she didn't want to have a conversation with a co-worker about what *butch* means.

Am I way off?

No, thank you.. you're not. My coworker doesn't know what butch is, I'm guessing but I'm betting I'm right. I didn't want to explain it to her.

I am not, nor have I ever, thought of only short hair as butch. I think it's silly to even assume I would think that.

It makes me cringe to post on forums sometimes because it's easy to take other's words out of context or twist them around when all they were doing was talking like they would to a friend standing next to them.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I'll be more careful about my choice of words in the future if needed.

Julie · 03-01-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuddles

No, thank you.. you're not. My coworker doesn't know what butch is, I'm guessing but I'm betting I'm right. I didn't want to explain it to her.

I am not, nor have I ever, thought of only short hair as butch. I think it's silly to even assume I would think that.

It makes me cringe to post on forums sometimes because it's easy to take other's words out of context or twist them around when all they were doing was talking like they would to a friend standing next to them.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I'll be more careful about my choice of words in the future if needed.

No offense... I can will tell you this -- As a femme, I have heard over and over again from Butches, that I would look oh so much more Feminine if only I would grow out my hair. That Femme's should not have short hair. Or GASP... It's just not right that your hair is shorter than mine.

Sorry, if you felt your words were being twisted not my intent. AND... I work for a Japanese organization and will say this, based on my experience in Japan and working with people in this culture. Hair is very important. Long hair on females is a sign of femininity. It is cultural.. As it is cultural in many of the Asian (continent) cultures.

Julie

Cuddles · 03-01-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

AND... I work for a Japanese organization and will say this, based on my experience in Japan and working with people in this culture. Hair is very important. Long hair on females is a sign of femininity. It is cultural.. As it is cultural in many of the Asian (continent) cultures.

Julie

That was sort of the moral of my sharing this... it was amusing to me how much my short hair bothered her because she didn't get it. She tsk'ed me when I told her I would not grow it out lol. I wish I could capture the sweet, quirkyness of this woman in words but alas, I cannot.

Thank you for understanding.

BullDog · 03-01-2012, 07:07 PM

I do think what Cuddles and Julie are sharing are actually very similar even though one is butch and one is femme- both are being told they should grow their hair out because that is considered more feminine (what a woman should be).

Corkey · 03-01-2012, 07:12 PM

Being that it is a cultural thing for some I'm not surprised at all. I took the post as a random thought. Psst there's a thread for that too LOL.

princessbelle · 03-01-2012, 07:21 PM

Not to get off topic, but it is off topic.

I was wondering when the whole "short hair for masculine, long hair for feminine" sort of ideals come from to begin with.

I found this...

For much of human history, both men and women had long hair, and men usually had long beards as well. In the 4th century BC Alexander the Great of Macedonia had his soldiers wear short hair and shave off their beards, so that their ememies couldn't grab their hair or beards in battle. The Romans were the first culture where all the men generally wore their hair short and shaved their beards, again for military reasons. After Rome conquered most of Europe and the Mediterranean, short hair came to be associated with what Rome stood for: civilization, "law and order", loyalty to the state, conservatism, military discipline, etc. Long hair was associated with barbarians, women, "effeminate" greek philosophers and wimpy romantics. The Roman senate took a dim view of emperors like Hadrian who "went Greek" by wearing a beard and longer hair.

At answer bag.com

For what it's worth.

I was just curious...didn't mean to derail really.

Personal note: Also, i can speak from my *me* space and say...i have long hair, always have and it has nothing to do with me being feminine. I just have a long neck and with short hair i look like a giraffe. And, well, i'd rather not.

*Anya* · 03-01-2012, 08:57 PM

There are all kinds of stereotypes-including age.

I actually had a woman at work one time tell me she got her hair cut short because she thought that only younger women looked good with long hair.

This is while she is looking at my long hair and I am definitely not a "younger woman".

Btw, I have long hair because first and foremost, I like long hair on myself.

On the other hand, I do dig crew-cuts, particularly on my butch. I just love to run my hand over the top of it

Melissa · 03-02-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Not to get off topic, but it is off topic.

I was wondering when the whole "short hair for masculine, long hair for feminine" sort of ideals come from to begin with.

I found this...

For much of human history, both men and women had long hair, and men usually had long beards as well. In the 4th century BC Alexander the Great of Macedonia had his soldiers wear short hair and shave off their beards, so that their ememies couldn't grab their hair or beards in battle. The Romans were the first culture where all the men generally wore their hair short and shaved their beards, again for military reasons. After Rome conquered most of Europe and the Mediterranean, short hair came to be associated with what Rome stood for: civilization, "law and order", loyalty to the state, conservatism, military discipline, etc. Long hair was associated with barbarians, women, "effeminate" greek philosophers and wimpy romantics. The Roman senate took a dim view of emperors like Hadrian who "went Greek" by wearing a beard and longer hair.

At answer bag.com

For what it's worth.

I was just curious...didn't mean to derail really.

Personal note: Also, i can speak from my *me* space and say...i have long hair, always have and it has nothing to do with me being feminine. I just have a long neck and with short hair i look like a giraffe. And, well, i'd rather not.

Very interesting. And Rome was extremely anti woman to the point we do not have one single thing written by a Roman woman. We only know about Roman women via the writings of Roman men and much of what they wrote was highly mysogynistic. We don't know what they thought, what they liked, what they hated, what they valued, or what they thought of Rome and Roman men. So the Roman empire effectively silenced millions of women for hundreds of years.

I wore my own hair very short for a few years (even spiky for a while). The nasty comments I got were downright rude and meant to shame me. Even my parents jumped on the bandwagon for a while and basically insulted me for short hair. Its just more gender role reinforcement from society that gets nervous at the thought of women not conforming.

Melissa

SugarFemme · 03-01-2012, 07:12 PM

So much of what "we" do as a society is sadly based on stereotypes. And the stereotype exists that butches have short hair and femmes have long hair. It's been perpetuated for so long that people forget that hair is not what defines a person. I have worn my hair short my entire life until I decided to grow it long two years ago. I consider myself very femme, even when my hair is short. Although I present on the OUTSIDE to be femme....it is what's inside my heart and soul that truly makes me feminine. How I think. How I go about my life. How I see things. All this is how I define ME and no one else.

Words · 03-02-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuddles

No, thank you.. you're not. My coworker doesn't know what butch is, I'm guessing but I'm betting I'm right. I didn't want to explain it to her.

I am not, nor have I ever, thought of only short hair as butch. I think it's silly to even assume I would think that.

It makes me cringe to post on forums sometimes because it's easy to take other's words out of context or twist them around when all they were doing was talking like they would to a friend standing next to them.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I'll be more careful about my choice of words in the future if needed.

If you re-read my post, you'll notice that it was very lighthearted in tone as evidenced by the kind of language used and the LOL. (This is addressed to you apretty as well.) I wasn't offended. I wasn't criticizing you. I was merely preparing you for the likely and inevitable response in a fun and lighthearted manner.

I thought that was obvious. I still think it's obvious. I just wonder why some people get SUCH a kick out of taking every. single. ***ing. word out of context and inserting bad intent that wasn't there.

Hope that's clear now

Words

Words · 03-02-2012, 03:01 AM

Sorry, that came across as sounding a little hostile. My apologies.

Words

boobookitty · 03-02-2012, 08:23 AM

I am not offended at all and did not think the OP was in out of line in any way. Stereotypes are funny (and sad) I like busting stereotypes. I have been told I am not really Butch for so many reasons, mostly for appearance reasons. --I have even been told I am not really Butch because of male gender ID--, So please feel happy with who you are! Enjoy the journey, find the fun and laugh at the world!

03-01-2012, 07:07 PM	#5
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,660 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I do think what Cuddles and Julie are sharing are actually very similar even though one is butch and one is femme- both are being told they should grow their hair out because that is considered more feminine (what a woman should be). __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

03-01-2012, 07:12 PM	#6
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,269 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Being that it is a cultural thing for some I'm not surprised at all. I took the post as a random thought. Psst there's a thread for that too LOL. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

03-01-2012, 07:21 PM	#7
princessbelle Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: femme ones Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,100 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,380 Thanked 30,496 Times in 5,198 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	Not to get off topic, but it is off topic. I was wondering when the whole "short hair for masculine, long hair for feminine" sort of ideals come from to begin with. I found this... For much of human history, both men and women had long hair, and men usually had long beards as well. In the 4th century BC Alexander the Great of Macedonia had his soldiers wear short hair and shave off their beards, so that their ememies couldn't grab their hair or beards in battle. The Romans were the first culture where all the men generally wore their hair short and shaved their beards, again for military reasons. After Rome conquered most of Europe and the Mediterranean, short hair came to be associated with what Rome stood for: civilization, "law and order", loyalty to the state, conservatism, military discipline, etc. Long hair was associated with barbarians, women, "effeminate" greek philosophers and wimpy romantics. The Roman senate took a dim view of emperors like Hadrian who "went Greek" by wearing a beard and longer hair. At answer bag.com For what it's worth. I was just curious...didn't mean to derail really. Personal note: Also, i can speak from my me space and say...i have long hair, always have and it has nothing to do with me being feminine. I just have a long neck and with short hair i look like a giraffe. And, well, i'd rather not. __________________ ~ I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. ~ Maya Angelou

03-01-2012, 08:57 PM	#8
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,460 Times in 7,283 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	There are all kinds of stereotypes-including age. I actually had a woman at work one time tell me she got her hair cut short because she thought that only younger women looked good with long hair. This is while she is looking at my long hair and I am definitely not a "younger woman". Btw, I have long hair because first and foremost, I like long hair on myself. On the other hand, I do dig crew-cuts, particularly on my butch. I just love to run my hand over the top of it __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner

03-02-2012, 08:23 AM	#13
boobookitty Member How Do You Identify?: I like the tag Lipstick Stone Butch Preferred Pronoun?: not picky, but male pronouns are soothing to the psyche Relationship Status: not looking for more than friends Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: central USA Posts: 119 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 70 Thanked 215 Times in 59 Posts Rep Power: 1451775	I am not offended at all and did not think the OP was in out of line in any way. Stereotypes are funny (and sad) I like busting stereotypes. I have been told I am not really Butch for so many reasons, mostly for appearance reasons. --I have even been told I am not really Butch because of male gender ID--, So please feel happy with who you are! Enjoy the journey, find the fun and laugh at the world! __________________ [I]LOL...yeah, I'm a cisgender heterosexual male crossdresser trapped in a womans body. [/I]:sunglass:

03-01-2012, 07:12 PM	#10
SugarFemme Member How Do You Identify?: Fierce Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Singular Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Southwest Posts: 1,029 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 650 Thanked 4,460 Times in 854 Posts Rep Power*: 21474851	So much of what "we" do as a society is sadly based on stereotypes. And the stereotype exists that butches have short hair and femmes have long hair. It's been perpetuated for so long that people forget that hair is not what defines a person. I have worn my hair short my entire life until I decided to grow it long two years ago. I consider myself very femme, even when my hair is short. Although I present on the OUTSIDE to be femme....it is what's inside my heart and soul that truly makes me feminine. How I think. How I go about my life. How I see things. All this is how I define ME and no one else.

03-02-2012, 03:01 AM	#12
Words Member How Do You Identify?: Queer femme submissive Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: UK Posts: 969 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,449 Thanked 4,258 Times in 677 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Sorry, that came across as sounding a little hostile. My apologies. Words