Butches and Body Image - Let's Talk About It

[Silverseastar]

I'm obviously far from butch but wading in because this thread moved me. I have to agree that it's like some inner space that speaks outwardly to me no matter how a person presents (throw on a dress and I'll still see you but maybe not quite as easily). As a femme, butchness calls to an inner space in me. But just like all femmes are not the same, neither are all butches (thank gawd!).

In a society that constantly evaluates people, especially female genders, on a set of standards and expectations of beauty and attractiveness I don't think you can grow up and dodge that bullet. Being butch may even be more complicated because there are two standards to push against instead of one. There is a silent butch standard even in the queer community.

But no matter what standards might exist in life trying to meet them pulls us farther from our true selves and anyone that might fall for that version of us is falling in love with an idea not a person. So I have to agree with the other posters. Work on being the healthiest happiest YOU you can be and it will be attractive to the right person. Who you are shines from the inside and that is what is attractive.

[TimilDeeps]

Originally Posted by Silverseastar

I'm obviously far from butch but wading in because this thread moved me. I have to agree that it's like some inner space that speaks outwardly to me no matter how a person presents (throw on a dress and I'll still see you but maybe not quite as easily). As a femme, butchness calls to an inner space in me. But just like all femmes are not the same, neither are all butches (thank gawd!).

In a society that constantly evaluates people, especially female genders, on a set of standards and expectations of beauty and attractiveness I don't think you can grow up and dodge that bullet. Being butch may even be more complicated because there are two standards to push against instead of one. There is a silent butch standard even in the queer community.

But no matter what standards might exist in life trying to meet them pulls us farther from our true selves and anyone that might fall for that version of us is falling in love with an idea not a person. So I have to agree with the other posters. Work on being the healthiest happiest YOU you can be and it will be attractive to the right person. Who you are shines from the inside and that is what is attractive.

Well said....

[clay]

Originally Posted by TimilDeeps

Well said....

Ditto, Silverseastar!!!

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by claybaby

Ditto, Silverseastar!!!

i concur as well...

[clay]

For me, I don't "march to anyone else's drumbeat! I march to my own! I don't give a darn about society's "standards" or ideas of how they may "perceive" I should act.
I am a LESBIAN, a woman, and I embrace that part of me. I do happen to enjoy wearing "sportier" clothing, and yes they are male clothing items. I wear them because it just feels right to me..it feels like ME.....I don't wear them because it is what is dictated to me by some other's ideas of whom I should be, do, act like, or dress like. I make MY own choices! I was a tomboi from as early as when I was walking....and by age 5 I was always "daddi" in playing house. Oh yes, we emulated the role models we had...but by age 23 I knew I walked a different pathway to my own inner journey..and I walked it on my own terms...no one else's.
I have never let anyone dictate how I should look, act, or be..it just is NOT negotiable. I have always tried to live by the old adage, "to thine own self, be true, then thou cannot be false to any (wo)man"
I am a rare breed of butch.... I am very tender hearted, gentle, compassionate, and very sentimental, and I wore my "heart on my sleeve" until a certain southern lady told me to roll it up in my sleeve..it was no longer available...grins.....I treat my partner as an equal in all respects. While we have dynamics we enjoy in our own personal space, again, we neither march to anyone else's drums...we make our own "rules of engagement"..allowing NO fashion police, no collar police, NO etiquette police, and No dom police to rule how we interact. But I digress.....
Superficiality has no place in my world. Someone who is out to "change" someone else will probably never be satisfied...there will most likely always be one more thing, one more way, or one more something that will make you be what they are trying to mold...
My own butchness comes from deep within my soul..it is something I was born with...I embraced that very early on in life...it isn't something learned, or studied, taught, or emulated..it resonates deep within me...it is my own drumbeat..it is that inner sanctum of where I reside....I dress for me, and me alone....I act for me, and me alone, and I love for me, and me alone...and when I find someone who "gets" me, gels with me, and we have the incredible synergies, chemistries, and dynamics that just work for us...we make our own symphony...NOT according to society or any other person..
My butchness can't be described in any particular terms, or be in a certain manner of dress, or be set by anyone else's standards...this is MY own personal aura....coming from within...it is my soul...my heart...my inner being...how I treat others...my own credo and motto, and my own outer wrapping as I so choose....I am after all, a human being..being "butch" is just one tiny part of this unique ME...it is my humaneness...my staying true to my own self...walking this journey with love, respect, and understanding of all others..and respecting their freedom to be who they are...and not trying to change the world..living within my own space...I am a woman...I am a human...I am loved...for being myself!
Excellent post, awesome feedback, and great idea for a thread, Alex! I just wanted to say I admire you...you have an awesome soul, buddy!!!

[Mr Nice Guy]

I've had pressure from a Femme because I wasn't big enough. I'm sorry but I'm not going to gain weight to make you feel more secure. I'm a small butch who can kick ass if I need too.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice Guy

I've had pressure from a Femme because I wasn't big enough. I'm sorry but I'm not going to gain weight to make you feel more secure. I'm a small butch who can kick ass if I need too.

i was once told i was not femme enough because i clean fish and don't always run around in skirts... my reply was less than "ladylike"

i agree i am not going to change to validate someone else.

[Ginger]

What an interesting thread, in content of course, but also in that so many femmes are responding to it!

It triggered a memory of a butch I knew a long time ago. She was a young, thin person, and talked about feeling pressure to put on weight! Big butch women teased her for not being "butch" enough, because she was small.

I realized then that oppression around body image was not limited to the cultural pressure on feminine women, to be thin!

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

What an interesting thread, in content of course, but also in that so many femmes are responding to it!

It triggered a memory of a butch I knew a long time ago. She was a young, thin person, and talked about feeling pressure to put on weight! Big butch women teased her for not being "butch" enough, because she was small.

I realized then that oppression around body image was not limited to the cultural pressure on feminine women, to be thin!

That's because femmes go through this stuff too.

We do.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

That's because femmes go through this stuff too.

We do.

Please tell us more about this.

[Soft*Silver]

I am opening up two resale clothing shops..one for plus sized females, and one for all sized males.

I fully expect males to be shopping in the female store, and females to be shopping in the male store

for themselves.

I want my stores to be a place where people feel valued for who they are, not what number they wear, or what gender they need to costume up as.

I have gone thru such an incredible evolution over the past few years. I am as femme as they come yet I certainly dress quite different. At times, I could almost pass as butch, if wardrobe were the only thing that would define as such.

My sub is a bio male who is 6'5" and MASSIVE. And femme. I buy him lingerie as well as carharts. He is all muscle but hates the outdoors. I wear nailpolish and heels and live to be dirty, either gardening or at the barns. He wears red lipstick. I wear pink. He has long hair. I have short. We both are round bellied. I am enchanted by him. He desires me. We both feel good about ourselves (now)...and that is where worth comes in. It costs us so much when we value ourselves thru others' eyes, but its priceless when we treasure who we are ourselves. The enormity of this treasure is one of the many reasons we are so drawn to one another. Regardless of how we fit in the world, we fit with each other. Yet, first and foremost, we had to journey on our own, to where we first felt we fit as Our Selves.

in the past we both have felt like the world disowned us by gender because we didnt fit the norm. We both felt at different times in our lives, we were freaks and felt shame over it. And yet we also fit the "norm" as well. We could "pass" as "acceptable". Yet what we realy wanted was to be defined as acceptable by not "passing" but simply "being"...

People can live in dual realities that split open like atoms depending on who is viewing us, and that includes ourselves.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by WomenMoveMe

"Can I help you, sir?" For so many years this question tumbled from the mouths of those who did not know me. I thought this question came only because they were looking at my height, and the substance of me, and not the whole of me. Surely it could not be that they truly thought I was a man. Yes, I was 6’ tall and lean with shoulders wider than hip. Yes, I had short hair. Yes, I wore men’s clothing and shoes. Was this all it took to be thought a male?

Great post - all of it.

I go through this as well. One time, I stopped the clerk and asked him to look at me. He immediately apologized profusely, embarrassing me even more, but I persisted and refused to shrink away that day.

He told me he didnt see me, that he wasnt paying attention, that he saw the hat and assumed. I told him that was the point - that, instead of just glancing up and assuming, stop for a moment and look at the human being in front of him.

I have heard the excuse that it's my short hair, or it's my hat, or it's my clothes, or it's my stance - but in reality, people are just in too much of a hurry to stop and really *see* the people around them.

Because when you actually look at me, you can see the masculinity, sure; but you can also see the woman in which that masculinity resides.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Please tell us more about this.

i can only speak for myself. i am a girl, a woman, a femme ... thats who i am. i didn't go out and find a label then try to conform to it. i am me and if there is a label out there fine i don't care, but i can't live up to someone expectations of what the label means.

i also like to play in the mud, catch, clean and cook my own fish, i want to drive my own boat thank you. i can change the oil in my truck and am very mechanically inclined. i fix things. i am just as comfy in overalls (sometimes i even wear a shirt with them) and workboots as i am in a sundress and sandals. i don't cater to long nails but my toes are well taken care of. i guess at tomboy at times, i've always been that.

WHen i left my job as a banking officer i ditched all of my dress up clothes and enjoyed a life of not having to deal with all of it. i love jeans, a nice shirt and boots, i cuss, i cut my hair off if it gets in the way.

i have been with butches who felt my being less than high femme was not acceptable. i will never forget the look on my exes face when she walked in and i had my hand in a fish's gut. She was horrified and said femmes just don't do those sorts of things.

i was told to get fingernails and wear more *feminine* clothes.

One day a butch was at my house visiting when it began to pour down raining. My boat was filling up with water... she went out to bail it... i grabbed my pump and hooked my battery up to it like i always did. Afterwards she told me i took away her butch card by doing that. i suppose i was to let my boat sink so her so called pride could stay in tact? She said i kill her pride.

There was a butch on the forums somewhere that said she asks if a femme has long nails before they even start talking. i thought that was so sad.


The day i have to be someone else to validate my partner is a sad day indeed.

[justkim]

dee, thank you so much for this... all of it... I am many things... most of all NOT afraid to get dirty... so my friend you are not alone...
For me I have been told that because my hair was short/shorter that I wasn't femme enough... Yet, when I came out I was told because I wore makeup, heels, skirts, and had long nails I wasn't a lesbian. I wear heels, skirts, my nails are long, and my toes are polished... mind you there is so much more to me than those things I have listed. I can work most power tools and I am not afraid to pick up a hammer...
I hate labels... I don't want to feel like a can of soup that can be removed from the shelf, looked over and put back because I am not femme enough...
I hope I have made some kind of sense as I have yet to have a full cup of coffee...

Lets all take a moment to truly see the person in front of us, no matter how they id...

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

i can only speak for myself. i am a girl, a woman, a femme ... thats who i am. i didn't go out and find a label then try to conform to it. i am me and if there is a label out there fine i don't care, but i can't live up to someone expectations of what the label means.

i also like to play in the mud, catch, clean and cook my own fish, i want to drive my own boat thank you. i can change the oil in my truck and am very mechanically inclined. i fix things. i am just as comfy in overalls (sometimes i even wear a shirt with them) and workboots as i am in a sundress and sandals. i don't cater to long nails but my toes are well taken care of. i guess at tomboy at times, i've always been that.

WHen i left my job as a banking officer i ditched all of my dress up clothes and enjoyed a life of not having to deal with all of it. i love jeans, a nice shirt and boots, i cuss, i cut my hair off if it gets in the way.

i have been with butches who felt my being less than high femme was not acceptable. i will never forget the look on my exes face when she walked in and i had my hand in a fish's gut. She was horrified and said femmes just don't do those sorts of things.

i was told to get fingernails and wear more *feminine* clothes.

One day a butch was at my house visiting when it began to pour down raining. My boat was filling up with water... she went out to bail it... i grabbed my pump and hooked my battery up to it like i always did. Afterwards she told me i took away her butch card by doing that. i suppose i was to let my boat sink so her so called pride could stay in tact? She said i kill her pride.

There was a butch on the forums somewhere that said she asks if a femme has long nails before they even start talking. i thought that was so sad.


The day i have to be someone else to validate my partner is a sad day indeed.