A straight girl enters the queer world...

[BullDog]

Corkey, see Deviant Daddy's post above. The amount of conversation that I have seen at online BF sites about femmes putting effort into understanding transmen has been much greater than the other way around. To me it seems quite lopsided. What partners discuss in private I would not be privy to.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Corkey, see Deviant Daddy's post above. The amount of conversation that I have seen at online BF sites about femmes putting effort into understanding transmen has been much greater than the other way around. To me it seems quite lopsided. What partners discuss in private I would not be privy to.

I see Femmes posting in FTM threads, and the Transmen responding to them, so while you may not see it I have to question the motive for your statement. Are you talking accommodations for who a person is or accommodations in the way a person touches another? I mean what is it you see that I don't?
I put a lot of effort into understanding another person, I don't attach a label to them.
I do see in those threads there is a marked aggressiveness in whom pursues whom, and therefore where the discussions get their direction. But it has nothing to do with FTM's not trying to get to know Femmes. I do think that FTM's get noticed more so because of the nonconformity, other than that, yea not so much. Humans behaving like humans.

[BullDog]

Corkey I am lost at this point as to what you are saying. I think we should leave it at our perceptions are very different.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Corkey I am lost at this point as to what you are saying. I think we should leave it at our perceptions are very different.

Oh I know they are different, which is why I was asking you some questions, which you are under no obligation to answer. You pointed out, without too much fact that Femmes are always the ones who have to get to know FTM's. I am challenging that statement.
I think all parties who want to understand one another are under obligation to do so with respect.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Oh I know they are different, which is why I was asking you some questions, which you are under no obligation to answer. You pointed out, without too much fact that Femmes are always the ones who have to get to know FTM's. I am challenging that statement.
I think all parties who want to understand one another are under obligation to do so with respect.

Corkey, I have clearly differentiated private conversations between two individuals and discussions I have observed online. I agree with you that anyone wanting to get to know someone should do so with respect irregardless of how someone ids.

I do think websites such as this do offer a lot of information for all of us, including people new to our community and someone wanting to learn about trans, butch and femme issues could find a lot of great information and people here, so it's a great resource to point people to.

My only motivation was I don't think femmes should have to do a majority of the research and accommodating, whether their partners be trans, butch or anything else. There seems to be a big discrepancy that I have observed over a long time being on these sites. This is my perception. I am not challenging your perception.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Corkey, I have clearly differentiated private conversations between two individuals and discussions I have observed online. I agree with you that anyone wanting to get to know someone should do so with respect irregardless of how someone ids.

I do think websites such as this do offer a lot of information for all of us, including people new to our community and someone wanting to learn about trans, butch and femme issues could find a lot of great information and people here, so it's a great resource to point people to.

My only motivation was I don't think femmes should have to do a majority of the research and accommodating, whether their partners be trans, butch or anything else. There seems to be a big discrepancy that I have observed over a long time being on these sites. This is my perception. I am not challenging your perception.

Thank you for answering. Having been on sites like this for a while, I too think they are a great resource, without the perception of whom does what. Because what I perceive has nothing to do with the reality of how people get to know each other. When you say Femmes have to do the majority of research and accommodating I find that to be erroneous. I think, and have observed that all ID's have a learning curve, and all ID's accommodate.

[The_Lady_Snow]

kitten,

I hope that you are kind and patient with your straight friend who just found herself on a roller coaster ride of the gender spectrum/queer/non binary/who am I now path...

She's a woman who before probably had no clue what *trans* was, queer, transitioning, and all the other things that one stumbles onto when they begin to date someone outside of the heteronormative..

Some good reading material:

Gender Outlaw : Kate Bornstein

Transgender Emergence : Arlene Istar

Transgender Warriors: Leslie Feinberg

I also hope that during this difficult time the gentleman who is dating your friend does some self reflection and realizes that it's not just about him him and only him.

It's now them...

He too should be patient and be able to communicate what is going on, what to expect, what changes will happen etc etc.

If he's not ready to do so, perhaps they should not be in a relationship till they both figure out who they are and who they aren't..

I would give her the names of the dash site, and now this site so that she can read and soak up all those gender conversations that have been had and continue to happen to this day.

She may not fully understand the mentality of a transgender mind, that is something we may never be privy to, but we can be patient and understanding as long as the same is being returned.

It reads selfish on his part that he expect her to do all her homework on him, his gender confusion, his journey. Relationships are a two way highway and he has to be just as invested into her new journey into something she has probably no clue about... It was also disturbing to read that manipulation was going on.

I wish them both luck, perhaps they can go and get some therapy with a gender therapist who could be the mediator for questions she has and her asking them without her boyfriend getting all offensive.

She can't learn about him and what he's going through if he's going to deflect all the issues within him onto her because of her curiousity..

I wish both of them luck and you too sounds like you are trying to be a good friend to her..