A straight girl enters the queer world...

weatherboi · 03-13-2012, 06:50 PM

So what if there are not as many threads about transguys wringing their hands over this. It doesn't equate to transguys here not doing their work or that we are doing it wrong.

Corkey · 03-13-2012, 06:56 PM

I think it's awfully telling that our mates are the only ones that should be telling us if we're doing it wrong, and I just don't see that happening. Because frankly hers is the only opinion that matters to me.

Mike · 03-13-2012, 07:18 PM

just to be clear, i have posted in many threads that i think the trans guy should do his homeowrk on himself and his partner. Shes in a transition period too. I have said many times, thst i think the trans guys need that time alone, to find themm self. I think one of my post years ago my words rang as something like this, far to often i see where the partner of ftms are doing all the home work, they know when and where the next appointment is, what his T dose is and so on. better than he does.

I am not saying some guys dont do it differently, and hoepfully its changed some, but it use to be far to many depending on the partner to do all the figuring out if you will. I do think the partner needs to ask the questions, noone is a mind reader. but she needs to take care of herself in the same respect.

DaddysKitten · 03-13-2012, 07:37 PM

We are not talking about a 'femme', we are talking about a woman who is a cis-gendered female straight girl. Not a femme, who has already identified with something outside of what is cis-normal. Assuming she is a femme, since this is the constant talk about where the trans-man should focus his studies on, pushes this straight girl into a category of acknowledging and understanding some sort of queer lifestyle she is accustomed to. She is not. In fact, she doesn't even know what a 'femme' is. This is a straight girl.

I feel like, when you refer to her as a femme, you are IDing her, and she has not gotten anywhere near that point in her exploration to identify with it, and also states, in some manner a base knowledge of what this encompasses. But this is base knowledge she has yet to develop.

Am I disagreeing, that he should understand femmes better. Well no, but to me, it's like saying men need to study women, and women need to study men. It's kind of... common sense that in order to be with anyone, you need to understand their basic fundamentals. But no one ever knows everything about anyone, no matter their ID or orientation.

He has been around cis-gendered straight women all of his life, he needs to learn her and understand her. But that is a given in any relationship of any capacity. Please refer to my previous post before this one, to understand where I am coming from with the importance of such.

Mike · 03-13-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

We are not talking about a 'femme', we are talking about a woman who is a cis-gendered female straight girl. Not a femme, who has already identified with something outside of what is cis-normal. Assuming she is a femme, since this is the constant talk about where the trans-man should focus his studies on, pushes this straight girl into a category of acknowledging and understanding some sort of queer lifestyle she is accustomed to. She is not. In fact, she doesn't even know what a 'femme' is. This is a straight girl.

I feel like, when you refer to her as a femme, you are IDing her, and she has not gotten anywhere near that point in her exploration to identify with it, and also states, in some manner a base knowledge of what this encompasses. But this is base knowledge she has yet to develop.

Am I disagreeing, that he should understand femmes better. Well no, but to me, it's like saying men need to study women, and women need to study men. It's kind of... common sense that in order to be with anyone, you need to understand their basic fundamentals. But no one ever knows everything about anyone, no matter their ID or orientation.

He has been around cis-gendered straight women all of his life, he needs to learn her and understand her. But that is a given in any relationship of any capacity. Please refer to my previous post before this one, to understand where I am coming from with the importance of such.

I get that you dont think she calls herself a femme, but i disagree in the fact that cis women, dont know what femme is or girly girly even. I have spend most of my life in the str8* world dated a string of str8* women, in a 17 year relationship with one. Never had a one question who they where when dating me. I could just be wrong or lucky and all that but i dont think its matters to them what anyone ids as. They just know they fell in love and its what it is. I am trying to recall if any of them used the word Femme, i do know some of them used girly girl.

DaddysKitten · 03-13-2012, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

I get that you dont think she calls herself a femme, but i disagree in the fact that cis women, dont know what femme is or girly girly even. I have spend most of my life in the str8* world dated a string of str8* women, in a 17 year relationship with one. Never had a one question who they where when dating me. I could just be wrong or lucky and all that but i dont think its matters to them what anyone ids as. They just know they fell in love and its what it is. I am trying to recall if any of them used the word Femme, i do know they used girly girl.

Actually, she called her transman a femme, she thought it simply meant female. So no, she does not. The blush was actually kinda funny when I told her that was not the case.

Mike · 03-13-2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

Actually, she called her transman a femme, she thought it simply meant female. So no, she does not. The blush was actually kinda funny when I told her that was not the case.

OHHHHHHHHHHHH Can we just slide her a dictonary with all the kewl words higlighted?

Mike · 03-13-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I read Bulldog as saying that both should do the work too, so I was kinda surprised that this whole thing went South (not really!)

I also think (not new for me to express this opinion) that we, in the broader spectrum, by which I mean "not all" tend to be a bit masculine-centric in this community. Deferring to, expecting to be deferred to (Not All Butches & Men here). But it happens, and to pretend otherwise could be a little crazy making.

I don't like to see any of us put under the umbrella of "All good/All bad" because it just doesn't fit. So many really good Femme's (even the bossy ones!), Butches (regardless of pro-nouns) and Men (Straight or Queer).

I also got when Parker used the term "good girl and sit down" because I know that Parker is Female ID'd. She was using a term I myself have used. I found it refreshing that a Butch used that phrase, but before you get all puffed up and shit, I didn't agree with your entire ideology or technique. That's okay, mine sucks sometimes too.

As a member here (as in, me, June) I am not too comfortable when folks come on the forums and right away start talking about "This friend of mine" or "OMG, my girlfriend left me and I am going to ask a bunch of complete strangers what I should do about it".

With that said, Welcome to the Planet, DK & DD. Regardless how you identify, the foundation of this forum (Butch/Femme) must resonate with both of you or you wouldn't be here

--June

PS - The Moderator part of me loved seeing this thread mostly pull out of a nosedive, and hopes that will continue.

June, get outta my head

MissItalianDiva · 03-13-2012, 08:29 PM

I read this thread when it was first posted but resisted the urge to put in my two sense and now have just read the rest (wishing I had not) and now have a headache.

Here is my two sense. Honestly I don't see why this is posted here. Frankly I would be a bit offended if I was your friend and you had posted my business on a forum without my knowledge. Sure it was done anonymously but the principle behind this would be an issue for me.

Secondly I really don't see why this is something you are concerning yourself with. It is their life and their relationship. What they choose to do or not do is theirs alone. If love is enough if even in the moment well then so be it. Life is a learning experience and sometimes just living in the moment is the best thing to do and when it isn't then it blows up in our face and we learn a life lesson...hopefully. Let them find what works or isn't working for them. I think sometimes we want to play protector or educator to folks who are going through something we have encountered previously because it may have ended bad for us or someone we know but sometimes it just needs to take it's own natural direction.

Quintease · 03-13-2012, 08:53 PM

I think it's been really interesting.

There isn't a lot of help out there for a girl dating a transman regardless of her ID. My husband and I have come up against a lot of weird reactions, from lesbians who think I should leave the lesbian community to straight people who think I have no 'right' to call myself gay. At least I have the benefit of 17 years of queer culture. Aside from a willingness to fall in love, what does this girl have? The least she should expect is that her friends are able to offer her advice from an educated place.

There should be more discussions like this.

DeviantDaddy · 03-14-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissItalianDiva

Secondly I really don't see why this is something you are concerning yourself with. It is their life and their relationship. What they choose to do or not do is theirs alone. If love is enough if even in the moment well then so be it. Life is a learning experience and sometimes just living in the moment is the best thing to do and when it isn't then it blows up in our face and we learn a life lesson...hopefully. Let them find what works or isn't working for them. I think sometimes we want to play protector or educator to folks who are going through something we have encountered previously because it may have ended bad for us or someone we know but sometimes it just needs to take it's own natural direction.

That is actually a simple answer: we are interested in offering her different venues of informing herself on the subject. She and I have been friends for years and I care for her. Perhaps our meaning of friendship differs, Diva. When a close friend finds herself confused and reaches out to me, I will be there. Certainly there is a limit to things. I can only offer her an ear and different insights - but what she does with it, in and out of their relationship, is her decision. I can only provide her with training wheels, the rest is on her.

03-13-2012, 06:50 PM	#1
weatherboi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Owned boy Preferred Pronoun?: Hey boy!!! Relationship Status: counting freckles slowly under Her direction!!! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: i have 2 sets of geographic coordinates!!! Posts: 6,097 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 26,797 Thanked 12,549 Times in 2,993 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	So what if there are not as many threads about transguys wringing their hands over this. It doesn't equate to transguys here not doing their work or that we are doing it wrong. __________________

03-13-2012, 06:56 PM	#2
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,269 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	I think it's awfully telling that our mates are the only ones that should be telling us if we're doing it wrong, and I just don't see that happening. Because frankly hers is the only opinion that matters to me. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

03-13-2012, 07:18 PM	#3
Mike In Loving Memory and Many Thanks Relationship Status: connected, emotionally and physically Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 511 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,188 Thanked 2,454 Times in 416 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	just to be clear, i have posted in many threads that i think the trans guy should do his homeowrk on himself and his partner. Shes in a transition period too. I have said many times, thst i think the trans guys need that time alone, to find themm self. I think one of my post years ago my words rang as something like this, far to often i see where the partner of ftms are doing all the home work, they know when and where the next appointment is, what his T dose is and so on. better than he does. I am not saying some guys dont do it differently, and hoepfully its changed some, but it use to be far to many depending on the partner to do all the figuring out if you will. I do think the partner needs to ask the questions, noone is a mind reader. but she needs to take care of herself in the same respect. __________________ Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself. Harvey Fierstein

03-13-2012, 07:37 PM	#4
DaddysKitten Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Claimed Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 47 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 60 Thanked 129 Times in 33 Posts Rep Power: 1656425	Clarification yet again... We are not talking about a 'femme', we are talking about a woman who is a cis-gendered female straight girl. Not a femme, who has already identified with something outside of what is cis-normal. Assuming she is a femme, since this is the constant talk about where the trans-man should focus his studies on, pushes this straight girl into a category of acknowledging and understanding some sort of queer lifestyle she is accustomed to. She is not. In fact, she doesn't even know what a 'femme' is. This is a straight girl. I feel like, when you refer to her as a femme, you are IDing her, and she has not gotten anywhere near that point in her exploration to identify with it, and also states, in some manner a base knowledge of what this encompasses. But this is base knowledge she has yet to develop. Am I disagreeing, that he should understand femmes better. Well no, but to me, it's like saying men need to study women, and women need to study men. It's kind of... common sense that in order to be with anyone, you need to understand their basic fundamentals. But no one ever knows everything about anyone, no matter their ID or orientation. He has been around cis-gendered straight women all of his life, he needs to learn her and understand her. But that is a given in any relationship of any capacity. Please refer to my previous post before this one, to understand where I am coming from with the importance of such. __________________ Daddy's Sassy Kitten It is because of him, I exist.

03-13-2012, 08:53 PM	#10
Quintease Member How Do You Identify?: Rainbow femme Preferred Pronoun?: princess Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 514 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 508 Thanked 1,817 Times in 417 Posts Rep Power: 10560327	I think it's been really interesting. There isn't a lot of help out there for a girl dating a transman regardless of her ID. My husband and I have come up against a lot of weird reactions, from lesbians who think I should leave the lesbian community to straight people who think I have no 'right' to call myself gay. At least I have the benefit of 17 years of queer culture. Aside from a willingness to fall in love, what does this girl have? The least she should expect is that her friends are able to offer her advice from an educated place. There should be more discussions like this. __________________ It is not worth an intelligent person's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

03-13-2012, 08:29 PM	#9
MissItalianDiva Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Miss Twiggy Preferred Pronoun?: Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and that shit doesn't sound atrocious! Relationship Status: divorce happens..all that glitters ain't gold Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 2,284 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,768 Thanked 7,159 Times in 1,793 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I read this thread when it was first posted but resisted the urge to put in my two sense and now have just read the rest (wishing I had not) and now have a headache. Here is my two sense. Honestly I don't see why this is posted here. Frankly I would be a bit offended if I was your friend and you had posted my business on a forum without my knowledge. Sure it was done anonymously but the principle behind this would be an issue for me. Secondly I really don't see why this is something you are concerning yourself with. It is their life and their relationship. What they choose to do or not do is theirs alone. If love is enough if even in the moment well then so be it. Life is a learning experience and sometimes just living in the moment is the best thing to do and when it isn't then it blows up in our face and we learn a life lesson...hopefully. Let them find what works or isn't working for them. I think sometimes we want to play protector or educator to folks who are going through something we have encountered previously because it may have ended bad for us or someone we know but sometimes it just needs to take it's own natural direction.