More on where do I fit in? Labels, why do we need them?

[imperfect_cupcake]

What's your label, how did you come up with that label and do you need a label?

well label in terms of my desire and how I position myself in the queer community...

this is a bit difficult.

When I lived in Canada and I dated in canada and the US, it was really useful to have a label because most of my local community did not recognise me as a dyke. So being able to say "yes I am one, I'm a FEMME (type of lesbian that other lesbians could actually recognise the term for, even if they didn't like it or disagreed with it, or misunderstood it, at least I could start that conversation)" was incredibly helpful

However I did not go looking for a label/ID, it found me. I didn't have a context for who I was when I was coming out. I found a web page in 1999 of a girl who was describe a relationship she was having with someone and how sexually different it was to lesbian sex as she understood it. Everything popped into place for me when I read her site.

that's what I was doing. ohhhhhhh....

When I move to London (uk) 9 years ago, everything changed. I was seen. I didn't have fight anymore about being a lesbian. I just was. No one gave a shit. I could be a lesbian without fighting for it, dykes chatted me up in a tube station - first time ever, in a public space, anyone recognised me as a dyke and flirted with me. The lesbian clubs had WADS of femminine girls in little black dresses putting on lipstick in the loo. No one asked me if I was bisexual in a club. If I said I loved dykes, I loved dykes and no one argued with me.

Through time, I had friends who were in what I would have called butch-femme relationships. But they didn't bother. It's not that they didn't recognise they were butch and femme... it's that the labeling of the relationship was considered socially pointless. Since no one wanted to know what you did behind closed doors and it had nothing to do with the conversation at the pub or the dinner you were having, it made it redundant to talk about.

you use a strap on and have a cock sometimes? *shrug* good for you. I'm more interested in the movie you went to see two nights ago, how was that?

the *only* time those terms became important really was when we were looking for a date. And then it became clear that I wasn't self definining my gender presentation but merely my desire of someone else's.

When I moved out of london and into the "countryside", the term butch and femme are just not really used. So I didn't have a word to use for my desire anymore. I had to start having awkward conversations with people to find out
1) if they liked the idea of using a strap on
2) if they sometimes enjoy the thought of maybe sometimes having a dick, as well as a vagina
Before I slept with them so as to not offend them if/when that should happen and to not waste TOO much time "getting to know someone" in a sexy way and finding out it's really a no go.

It's at this point that I understood how useful terms were. I started calling it "women with the requisite parts" so as not to bring in pre-judgement about what a butch was.

I still have exes, that say "ok, under your definition I'm butch. And I love being butch for you. I'll agree to that. But really, I'm not a butch" (the years of thinking a butch is a woman with backwards social skills wearing a polo shirt with the collar up who tells sexist jokes and drinks a lot of lager). Ok whatever. Just be who you are, you know how I see you and you enjoy that one-one relationship to the term with me and lets just leave it at that.

I don't need a label for who I am but I definitely need a label for my desire. So, conversely I need a label for others with a specific desire in order for them to find me. That's all I "need" it for. If I was a lesbian that loved all kinds of women, I could just leave it at that one label - lezzo.

But my desire is more narrow than that. So I need a name for it, or for what I'm looking for in order to have a conversation. it's kind of like going into a a restaurant with no menu and no words for the dishes. You'd have to tell them what ingredients to use, and how it's prepared. If I said "Burger" there's 1,000's of ways a burger is prepared but at least we have a starting point of understanding that I can then say "I like it lamb burger, medium rare, no mint sauce, with salad toppings, and some sharp cheese. whole wheat bun. Ta."

The label is there to start the conversation. Me saying "I'm femme" means a generic few things, but not many. But it gets the ball rolling in the general ball park. Just like being a dyke helps me to tell someone which ball park in town I'm using.

I don't care if people use an ID or not. I'd prefer that they themselves didn't really give too much of a fig about it because if I'm with someone that qualifies eveything as butchthis or femmethat or butchblahblah or femmmewhatsists... it's going to irritate me. I don't gender label my friends or my activities cause I just don't. I'm used to not bothering talking about it much anymore and just being in a state of who I am - femme. and it kind of ending there. Just like I don't sexualise eveything into lezzothis and dykethat.... I'm just a dyke. I'm just a femmedyke that likes women who have vaginas and cocks who like to wear means clothes in stylish and fun ways, who wear eyeliner and have scruffy hair and like to screw my brains out like the girl that I am. And sometimes like me to sexually treat their genitals as if they were female or sometimes male. Or sometimes both at the same time. And it's nice if they like to be kind of protective and gentleman-womanly to me. Cuddle me and tell me I'm safe.

I call that butch. but it doesn't have to be called that. It just makes it easier for me to find them, that's all.

[~baby~doll~]

Gender labels begin now before we are born, since parents usually know what we seem to be. We either have a vagina or a penis so this makes us a girl or boy. I am not certain this is true. Over the last several years I examined many articles and how my own life has played out. I discovered for me gender is what I think, not what the body appears to be. I am in a female body. Does this make me fit into the role society has elected (without my vote) I should follow. I think not. I would say most of us here, oh all of us here, do not really fit this idea of assigned gender roles.
When I was young I was required to wear a dress to school. I hated it from as early as I can remember. Oh but I have a vagina and should love that little pink frock with tea roses and the white pinafore, this could not be further from the truth.
Today I identify most closely with the term Third Gender Queer I am mentally neither of societies idea of gender. I am happy as I am and have no desire to alter myself.
We move onto the next label which is orientation. Yikes, so much to consider. Do I like guys, well not straight guys (there is a bad history). Do I like girls/woman yes! I feel sexually and romantically attracted to them. I am speaking exclusively here. Does this make me a lesbian, only if, we accept the vagina and penis indicator of gender. We left this theory by the side of the road so if not a lesbian what am I?
We are talking labels here. I am gynesexual/gyneromantic as I am exclusively drawn to women. I am drawn more to the relationship then the sex. Oh the sex is great, but I need that relationship building first and really need to feel love.
Okay I am getting there.

A demisexual is a person who does not experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone. It's more commonly seen in but by no means confined to romantic relationships. The term demisexual comes from the orientation being "halfway between" sexual and asexual.

http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index...tle=Demisexual
This quote is stated very well and describes me very well. So let's look at the label and see what it turns out to be.
Third Gender Queer Gynesexual/romantic Demisexual, oh, to this we should add Polyamorous. "My good gosh does this one ever stop." If you mash this mouthful of words together you know who I am.
The list of genders and orientations grows daily. We can expect more and more as the years pass until our label could be so long we would not want to have to write it out.
So for the sake of simplicity and the fact labels really do not tell the story, the people do. Queer, dyke, butch, lesbian all work for me. I am me as are we all and this is what makes us who we are. We live the mental gender and orientation we think and feel. Hugs loves

[Angeltoes]

There are so many things I'm still trying to figure out. It's frustrating when people assume that I'm bisexual because I'm definitely not. It's fine if someone doesn't get you but it's not okay when they tell you who you are.

I guess lesbian/femme makes the most sense for me now. I don't know why we need the labels. It's a shame that we can't just get to know each other without caring about sexual compatibility right away.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Angeltoes

There are so many things I'm still trying to figure out. It's frustrating when people assume that I'm bisexual because I'm definitely not. It's fine if someone doesn't get you but it's not okay when they tell you who you are.

I guess lesbian/femme makes the most sense for me now. I don't know why we need the labels. It's a shame that we can't just get to know each other without caring about sexual compatibility right away.

I don't think sexual compatibility has a whole lot to do with labels. Maybe on some level but this is not a dating site, per se, though plenty of us have coupled at one time or another by meeting someone here.

I can only speak for me. Out in the world, unless I specifically come out as a lesbian, no one knows that I am. Ditto as a femme. I just look like one more straight woman to others that see me. Oh, unless I am with a butch and all of a sudden the gears turn in their head and there is the recognition of who and what I am.

I have often felt it somewhat lonely when by myself to not have that recognition.

Here, that lesbian identity which was hard-won and hard-fought, first through my own self-acceptance, next acceptance by family and friends; can be proudly listed. If I could do it out in the RW, I would.

It is my identity. It signifies a very big part of who I am as a person, who I fall in love with and who I make love with. I am, of course many other things: mother, grandmother, nurse, feminist, etc. but lesbianism is the core of me.

I am grateful and glad I get to say it outloud here on the Planet.

[Jesse]

I am a human who happens to be connected to all other humans in one way or the other, and my name is Jesse. I'm good with that.

[LipstickLola]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I don't think sexual compatibility has a whole lot to do with labels. Maybe on some level but this is not a dating site, per se, though plenty of us have coupled at one time or another by meeting someone here.

I can only speak for me. Out in the world, unless I specifically come out as a lesbian, no one knows that I am. Ditto as a femme. I just look like one more straight woman to others that see me. Oh, unless I am with a butch and all of a sudden the gears turn in their head and there is the recognition of who and what I am.

I have often felt it somewhat lonely when by myself to not have that recognition.

Here, that lesbian identity which was hard-won and hard-fought, first through my own self-acceptance, next acceptance by family and friends; can be proudly listed. If I could do it out in the RW, I would.

It is my identity. It signifies a very big part of who I am as a person, who I fall in love with and who I make love with. I am, of course many other things: mother, grandmother, nurse, feminist, etc. but lesbianism is the core of me.

I am grateful and glad I get to say it outloud here on the Planet.

Exactly! I could have written every word!

[Vivacious1]

I identify as "femme". I don't use this term to fit in, I use it because it is where I fit. As long as I can remember this is where I fit. Even when I was a little girl it was in my blood. In my opinion, I don't believe that it is a matter of "needing" this label, but I guess I would more describe it as a way to tell another about me in one word. I know that there are many varieties of every label but I don't find it important for myself to break it down any further. I am femme, proud and own everything that the word stands for.

[DanieClarke]

we need labels to know what the ingrediants are

sheesh thats easy

ohhh wait you mean people labels

hmmm

[lisa93]

I believe it's all a matter of personal preference.