Are butches really a dying breed?

AtLast · 03-29-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancer611

So people are mentioning geographical areas a lot...where exactly are these mysterious "butchly populated areas" you speak of? haha

We butches are alive and well in Northern California.

ruby_woo · 03-29-2012, 01:39 PM

There were a ton of butches when I lived in San Francisco, but there seem to be only about 10 of them in Vancouver- and most of them are quite a bit older than me (I'm 29). Probably the whole dying-breed thing depends on geography, and maybe generation.

Luckily for me I like older butches. Ha!

Mr Nice Guy · 03-29-2012, 02:03 PM

To me there are more Butches then Femmes where I live. That's another reason why I'm still single.

dancer611 · 03-29-2012, 02:07 PM

And where, pray tell, are you at?

Curley · 04-02-2012, 12:31 AM

[quote=ruby_woo;555602]There were a ton of butches when I lived in San Francisco, but there seem to be only about 10 of them in Vancouver- and most of them are quite a bit older than me (I'm 29). Probably the whole dying-breed thing depends on geography, and maybe generation.

Luckily for me I like older butches.

Ruby woo
I'm in Vancouver too and yes butches seem sparse but I have the opposite problem. The ones I see are all way younger I'm 55' maybe we need to hang out in each others turf. Lol

tara_kerrie · 04-03-2012, 11:57 AM

Im butch. In my state there arent many femmes. And it seems like i all attract are bi-sexuals who wanna have a 3-some
With their bf

Kobi · 03-29-2012, 02:07 PM

I dont think butches are a dying breed. I also dont believe there is a "small group of radical feminists trying to perpetuate this myth".

In my experience, it seems we have been blessed with a wider variety of options not only in sex, gender, and orientations but in the multitude of ways in which these are expressed.

This freedom, it seems, has changed the landscape into something not so easily identifiable and/or congruent with our own defintions and preferences.

It's neither good nor bad. It's just different from the traditionally held norms.

Mr Nice Guy · 03-29-2012, 02:14 PM

I think that I'm blind to the Femmes in NH. I think they all look straight to me and I do attract straight women which boggles my mind. It's always been a problem since I was young. I'm still trying to figure it out. I even asked one time because I really wanted to know what I did to do that.

Parker · 03-29-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobi

I dont think butches are a dying breed. I also dont believe there is a "small group of radical feminists trying to perpetuate this myth".

In my experience, it seems we have been blessed with a wider variety of options not only in sex, gender, and orientations but in the multitude of ways in which these are expressed.

This freedom, it seems, has changed the landscape into something not so easily identifiable and/or congruent with our own defintions and preferences.

It's neither good nor bad. It's just different from the traditionally held norms.

Agreed. I also dont think this myth or belief or whatever is about radfems - I think it's about people having more freedom and more options in which to identify; as well as more freedom and options in which to present that identification. I think it's about being able to be gay without always having to "prove" it as someone else said by the way that one presents oneself. I think it's about being able to be a butch in many different ways, shapes, and forms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancer611

So people are mentioning geographical areas a lot...where exactly are these mysterious "butchly populated areas" you speak of? haha

I have noticed a ton o' butches out here in Seattle. The couple next door to me appears (to me) to be a butch-femme couple and the couple who runs the dog rescue I work with is also a butch-femme couple who has a ton of butch and femme friends - and that's just 2 couples off of the top of my head.

Quintease · 03-29-2012, 02:21 PM

Where I live I've heard bf people complain there are way more femmes than butches, forgetting that most of the ''femmes'' they're looking at aren't self-identified femmes at all, they are just lesbians who happen to look feminine.

aishah · 03-29-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintease

Where I live I've heard bf people complain there are way more femmes than butches, forgetting that most of the ''femmes'' they're looking at aren't self-identified femmes at all, they are just lesbians who happen to look feminine.

yes this!!! thank you for posting this.

Kobi · 03-29-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintease

Where I live I've heard bf people complain there are way more femmes than butches, forgetting that most of the ''femmes'' they're looking at aren't self-identified femmes at all, they are just lesbians who happen to look feminine.

Ok this is an example of where terminology and Kobi's lesbian oriented brain disconnect. Can you explain this to me in a way I might get what you are saying?

Quintease · 03-29-2012, 02:51 PM

Femme - is a gender ID

Lesbian - is a sexual orientation

Lesbians have traditionally all tried to look like each other in order to be visible or did bf, which was a sexual dynamic.

In places where homosexuality is becoming normalised, so are lesbians. So more lesbians are looking mainstream and more straight women are looking gay, ie: no more lesbian 'look'.

Kobi · 03-29-2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintease

Femme - is a gender ID

Lesbian - is a sexual orientation

Lesbians have traditionally all tried to look like each other in order to be visible or did bf, which was a sexual dynamic.

In places where homosexuality is becoming normalised, so are lesbians. So more lesbians are looking mainstream and more straight women are looking gay, ie: no more lesbian 'look'.

Thank you. That I understood.

Library_girl · 03-29-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintease

Femme - is a gender ID

Lesbian - is a sexual orientation

Lesbians have traditionally all tried to look like each other in order to be visible or did bf, which was a sexual dynamic.

In places where homosexuality is becoming normalised, so are lesbians. So more lesbians are looking mainstream and more straight women are looking gay, ie: no more lesbian 'look'.

Welllllll, not always.......sorry Quintease, I have to disagree with one part of what you said. (though I normally agree with so much of what you say and enjoy your posts! So forgive me

)

"Lesbians have traditionally all tried to look like each other in order to be visible or did bf, which was a sexual dynamic"

Maybe I am being too picky. I don't know how long ago you mean by "traditionally", but if you go back to say the 1960's, 1950's, and before, (the pre-Stonewall years), all lesbians were butch or femme, that was that. Butch/femme wasn't a subset of LGBTQ, or a sexual dynamic. (LGBTQ didn't exist) Lesbian and b/f were one in the same. (Lee Lynch, my favorite author, has written wonderful books about this) So we weren't all trying to look the same back then. If you were a lesbian, you were either butch or femme, period.

OK, I'll shut up now. I'll stop being such a librarian about it.

Quintease · 03-29-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Library_girl

Welllllll, not always.......sorry Quintease, I have to disagree with one part of what you said. (though I normally agree with so much of what you say and enjoy your posts! So forgive me

)

"Lesbians have traditionally all tried to look like each other in order to be visible or did bf, which was a sexual dynamic"

Maybe I am being too picky. I don't know how long ago you mean by "traditionally", but if you go back to say the 1960's, 1950's, and before, (the pre-Stonewall years), all lesbians were butch or femme, that was that. Butch/femme wasn't a subset of LGBTQ, or a sexual dynamic. (LGBTQ didn't exist) Lesbian and b/f were one in the same. (Lee Lynch, my favorite author, has written wonderful books about this) So we weren't all trying to look the same back then. If you were a lesbian, you were either butch or femme, period.

OK, I'll shut up now. I'll stop being such a librarian about it.

Yes but did individual lesbians have a choice? Invariably no. Butches all looked butch and femmes all looked femme. It was a very heteronormative and rigid way of establishing identity, particularly if you wanted to get laid. I imagine many lesbians today would be stumped were they to be asked to pick a side (remembering that dress back then also corresponded to sexual activity far more than it does today).

Library_girl · 03-30-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintease

Yes but did individual lesbians have a choice? Invariably no. Butches all looked butch and femmes all looked femme. It was a very heteronormative and rigid way of establishing identity, particularly if you wanted to get laid. I imagine many lesbians today would be stumped were they to be asked to pick a side (remembering that dress back then also corresponded to sexual activity far more than it does today).

Excellent point!!! See, I love your posts.

OS Butch · 03-29-2012, 04:07 PM

It sure would make it easier on me if Femmes put a big old "F" on their forehead so I could spot them!

I grew up in the rainbow/Lambda era. I can spot a rainbow at 100 meters!

Problem there is many see the rainbow differently from B-F dynamic. We need a logo of some sort....There seems to be one form many id's and genders. We need to start a trend

Way back when I wore a ring with the 2 women symbols...

Of course, it isn't hard for Femmes to see that I am a Butch( of the OFOS variety and that is almost extinct!). But, if a Femme were wearing it, I would know she were Femme

TimilDeeps · 03-29-2012, 05:23 PM

No, we're not dying out.

What I think is happening, like others have already expressed, is that there has been a reordering of sorts. Not in a hierarchical sense but in a fluidity sense. There are far fewer of us butches who claim the ID of butch. The energy is still there, there's no mistaking that. The labels are changing in our community, and there are far more choices in labeling oneself than there were 10 or even 5 years ago.

With change comes restructure. With restructuring comes a new vocabulary, be that good, bad or indifferent.

mariamma · 03-30-2012, 12:50 AM

It sure would make it easier on me if Femmes put a big old "F" on their forehead so I could spot them!

I usually give butch women a big, open smile, look them deep in the eyes and say "Hi". If one neuron is working, she and everyone around her will know I'm a femme saying Hi to a butch woman.
cuz I'm subtle like that

03-29-2012, 02:07 PM	#7
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,634 Times in 7,640 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	I dont think butches are a dying breed. I also dont believe there is a "small group of radical feminists trying to perpetuate this myth". In my experience, it seems we have been blessed with a wider variety of options not only in sex, gender, and orientations but in the multitude of ways in which these are expressed. This freedom, it seems, has changed the landscape into something not so easily identifiable and/or congruent with our own defintions and preferences. It's neither good nor bad. It's just different from the traditionally held norms. __________________

03-29-2012, 02:21 PM	#10
Quintease Member How Do You Identify?: Rainbow femme Preferred Pronoun?: princess Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 514 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 508 Thanked 1,817 Times in 417 Posts Rep Power: 10560327	Where I live I've heard bf people complain there are way more femmes than butches, forgetting that most of the ''femmes'' they're looking at aren't self-identified femmes at all, they are just lesbians who happen to look feminine. __________________ It is not worth an intelligent person's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

03-29-2012, 02:51 PM	#13
Quintease Member How Do You Identify?: Rainbow femme Preferred Pronoun?: princess Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 514 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 508 Thanked 1,817 Times in 417 Posts Rep Power: 10560327	Femme - is a gender ID Lesbian - is a sexual orientation Lesbians have traditionally all tried to look like each other in order to be visible or did bf, which was a sexual dynamic. In places where homosexuality is becoming normalised, so are lesbians. So more lesbians are looking mainstream and more straight women are looking gay, ie: no more lesbian 'look'. __________________ It is not worth an intelligent person's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that.

03-29-2012, 04:07 PM	#18
OS Butch Member How Do You Identify?: Butch-BLW Preferred Pronoun?: Default-She Relationship Status: Closed Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 636 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 488 Thanked 1,378 Times in 461 Posts Rep Power: 12988704	It sure would make it easier on me if Femmes put a big old "F" on their forehead so I could spot them! I grew up in the rainbow/Lambda era. I can spot a rainbow at 100 meters! Problem there is many see the rainbow differently from B-F dynamic. We need a logo of some sort....There seems to be one form many id's and genders. We need to start a trend Way back when I wore a ring with the 2 women symbols... Of course, it isn't hard for Femmes to see that I am a Butch( of the OFOS variety and that is almost extinct!). But, if a Femme were wearing it, I would know she were Femme __________________ You know that place between sleep and awake, the place where you can still remember dreaming? That's where I'll always love you. ~Tinkerbell~

03-29-2012, 01:39 PM	#2
ruby_woo Member How Do You Identify?: queer femme Preferred Pronoun?: her/she Relationship Status: single Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 427 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,848 Thanked 1,941 Times in 376 Posts Rep Power: 17615392	There were a ton of butches when I lived in San Francisco, but there seem to be only about 10 of them in Vancouver- and most of them are quite a bit older than me (I'm 29). Probably the whole dying-breed thing depends on geography, and maybe generation. Luckily for me I like older butches. Ha!

03-29-2012, 02:03 PM	#3
Mr Nice Guy Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Kind, sweet, loving, romantic and a rare Butch. :) Relationship Status: I don't drive a Uhaul. :) Join Date: May 2011 Location: Another New Englander Posts: 1,768 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,035 Thanked 4,894 Times in 1,307 Posts Rep Power: 0	To me there are more Butches then Femmes where I live. That's another reason why I'm still single.

03-29-2012, 02:07 PM	#4
dancer611 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: High Femme Preferred Pronoun?: fairy princess :) Relationship Status: single Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: USA Posts: 20 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6 Thanked 77 Times in 13 Posts Rep Power: 1788034	And where, pray tell, are you at?

04-02-2012, 12:31 AM	#5
Curley Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her, hey you lol Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vancouver B.C Posts: 85 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 517 Thanked 133 Times in 48 Posts Rep Power: 659478	[quote=ruby_woo;555602]There were a ton of butches when I lived in San Francisco, but there seem to be only about 10 of them in Vancouver- and most of them are quite a bit older than me (I'm 29). Probably the whole dying-breed thing depends on geography, and maybe generation. Luckily for me I like older butches. Ruby woo I'm in Vancouver too and yes butches seem sparse but I have the opposite problem. The ones I see are all way younger I'm 55' maybe we need to hang out in each others turf. Lol

04-03-2012, 11:57 AM	#6
tara_kerrie Member How Do You Identify?: Whatever you want to call us Preferred Pronoun?: Her, she, Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Wherever these 18 wheels take us Posts: 583 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 484 Thanked 1,366 Times in 441 Posts Rep Power: 17763585	Im butch. In my state there arent many femmes. And it seems like i all attract are bi-sexuals who wanna have a 3-some With their bf

03-29-2012, 02:14 PM	#8
Mr Nice Guy Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Kind, sweet, loving, romantic and a rare Butch. :) Relationship Status: I don't drive a Uhaul. :) Join Date: May 2011 Location: Another New Englander Posts: 1,768 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,035 Thanked 4,894 Times in 1,307 Posts Rep Power: 0	I think that I'm blind to the Femmes in NH. I think they all look straight to me and I do attract straight women which boggles my mind. It's always been a problem since I was young. I'm still trying to figure it out. I even asked one time because I really wanted to know what I did to do that.

03-29-2012, 05:23 PM	#19
TimilDeeps Senior Member How Do You Identify?: queer fucker Preferred Pronoun?: Mine Relationship Status: I'm dating myself. It's really working out. I think I'm the one!!! Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: To your right and a bit South. Posts: 1,522 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 108 Thanked 1,470 Times in 445 Posts Rep Power: 19646657	No, we're not dying out. What I think is happening, like others have already expressed, is that there has been a reordering of sorts. Not in a hierarchical sense but in a fluidity sense. There are far fewer of us butches who claim the ID of butch. The energy is still there, there's no mistaking that. The labels are changing in our community, and there are far more choices in labeling oneself than there were 10 or even 5 years ago. With change comes restructure. With restructuring comes a new vocabulary, be that good, bad or indifferent.

03-30-2012, 12:50 AM	#20
mariamma Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: single Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oregon Posts: 352 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,458 Thanked 1,115 Times in 281 Posts Rep Power: 9628891	It sure would make it easier on me if Femmes put a big old "F" on their forehead so I could spot them! I usually give butch women a big, open smile, look them deep in the eyes and say "Hi". If one neuron is working, she and everyone around her will know I'm a femme saying Hi to a butch woman. cuz I'm subtle like that