Law and Order: SVU with Special Guest Kathy Griffin as lesbian

[suebee]

[QUOTE=Cyclopea;58124]Well....there's a whole lotta buzz about Maristra Harkitray being a big ole closet case. A later-even-than-Jodi coming out situation. But I don't really see it.
What I see is a couple of hets putting on the lezface cluelessly for a bunch of clueless non-lesbians. What is it about lesbianism that makes non-lesbians feel so confident about portraying us, embodying us, exploiting us, co-opting us?

Oh right. The woman thing.

QUOTE]

They're called "actors". Because they act. Nobody here would criticize a gay actor for portraying a straight person. C'mon!

[Diavolo]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

They're called "actors". Because they act. Nobody here would criticize a gay actor for portraying a straight person. C'mon!

Doogie Hoozer (can't think of the guy's real name) is in "How I met your mother" and that boy is gay and out. I'm 100% with you on this one. It's acting.

I think a lot of these shows explore this sort of stuff not for ratings as much as to explore it within the art. The Law and Order franchise does a little of both.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

They're called "actors". Because they act. Nobody here would criticize a gay actor for portraying a straight person. C'mon!

By having the dominant group portray the oppressed group by 'acting', a number of oppressed groups have been misportrayed throughout centuries.

It was done with women (men playing women, aka drag); it was done with Black people (black face); it's done with differently abled people all the time; and it's now the rage to do it with queers. It's another subtle form of privilege and oppression. It plays off of stereotypes and perpetuates a negative image. It also keeps 'real' queers oppressed, by telling real queers they're not 'good enough' to even play queer. So, now we have hets exploiting and making money off of the queer community even more.




Dylan

[suebee]

Originally Posted by Dylan

By having the dominant group portray the oppressed group by 'acting', a number of oppressed groups have been misportrayed throughout centuries.

It was done with women (men playing women, aka drag); it was done with Black people (black face); it's done with differently abled people all the time; and it's now the rage to do it with queers. It's another subtle form of privilege and oppression. It plays off of stereotypes and perpetuates a negative image. It also keeps 'real' queers oppressed, by telling real queers they're not 'good enough' to even play queer. So, now we have hets exploiting and making money off of the queer community even more.




Dylan

Dylan, they are actors. They act. Inject political agenda into it if you want, but it just doesn't cut it. If Law and Order wants to turn a well-established, well-loved character into an openly gay person, then I'm all for it. It tells people that we're out there. Whether they KNOW they know queer people or not, we're out there, and we're in their lives. It tells them MUCH more than if they introduce another character that they DON'T already know, they DON'T already love, and shows them that our sexual orientation is but ONE aspect of who we are. It's an important aspect, but it makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in how we do our jobs.

Now if you want to argue that an actor shouldn't be discriminated against BECAUSE he or she is gay, then that's a whole 'nother matter. But this thread is about an established character in one of the most popular shows on U.S. television possibly coming out as a lesbian. I fail to see how that's a bad thing, unless she grows a mullet and starts wearing Birkinstocks and insists that her squad car be only a Subaru or a Volvo.

End of mini rant.

[Write14u]

Dylan, I understand what you're saying, but to me, it makes more sense to get the message out (ie, make queers more visibile in positive ways ) -- regardless of with whom.

Do you think Milk would have been as good without someone as dynamic as Penn in that role? I can't think of a queer actor that could have done it that justice.

From that clip of Olivia, it looks like she has a bad reaction, and who knows if she will come out. I don't think she will, but Sue is right -- it will make more of a lasting impression on viewers if it's someone you already know rather than a one-show wonder that you don't invest yourself in. I also think regardless of whether Olivia comes out, I think her attitude will be less hostile because her character is not geared that way.

One example that sticks out for me was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which had two lesbians on it. Willow was a main character from the inception and people went right along with it when she came out and started dating a woman. It meant more than if they had just dropped a dyke in there for a one-two espisode arc.
(On a side note: I would have rather seen the Buffy/Faith characters have at it. *grin* But that's just me having the hots for Eliza Dushku (Faith). )

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Write14u

(On a side note: I would have rather seen the Buffy/Faith characters have at it. *grin* But that's just me having the hots for Eliza Dushku (Faith). )

Faith was way hot. The bdsm Spike/Buffy dynamic was much hotter then the sweet lesbians cuddling on their lacy bed. So dull.

[Write14u]

Originally Posted by Martina

Faith was way hot. The bdsm Spike/Buffy dynamic was much hotter then the sweet lesbians cuddling on their lacy bed. So dull.

I agree on both counts. But it was at least progress having two lesbians in prime time that weren't nutso.

[Miss Scarlett]

I don't watch Law & Order. The addition of Kathy Griffin will not change my mind - especially since I just cannot stand her. Never liked her, doubt I ever will.

[suebee]

Something that occured to me after I posted: It would be more important in this situation IMO if there were a gay or lesbian writer than actor.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Write14u

I can't think of a queer actor that could have done it that justice.

Do you think that you not being able to name a dynamic queer actor on the level of Sean Penn has to do with the fact that A) a queer actor like that doesn't exist or B) queer actors aren't getting hired to play major roles, because they're gay?


I'm Going With B,
Dylan

[Write14u]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Do you think that you not being able to name a dynamic queer actor on the level of Sean Penn has to do with the fact that A) a queer actor like that doesn't exist or B) queer actors aren't getting hired to play major roles, because they're gay?


I'm Going With B,
Dylan

I don't think it's the way it used to be where actors were blackballed for being queer. I'm not saying a queer actor of Penn's caliber doesn't exist. Just that I'm not able to think of one.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Write14u

I don't think it's the way it used to be where actors were blackballed for being queer. I'm not saying a queer actor of Penn's caliber doesn't exist. Just that I'm not able to think of one.

Ahhh, ok...so, they're not blackballed...but you can't think of one...but you not being able to think of one has nothing to do with the fact that queer actors aren't even good enough to play queer characters. Because of COURSE straights can play queers better.


Am I Understanding You Correctly?,
Dylan

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Do you think that you not being able to name a dynamic queer actor on the level of Sean Penn has to do with the fact that A) a queer actor like that doesn't exist or B) queer actors aren't getting hired to play major roles, because they're gay?


I'm Going With B,
Dylan

I think:

1. There are Queer actors who are not getting parts because they are Queer, sure. Even if their *bio* doesn't say they are Queer, maybe they are perceived as Queer, have some kind of stereotypical Queer presence (re: super flamey gay boy and the part is a for a straight dad to 3 kids and he cannot act his way into a straight part). And there are not a ton of Queer parts out there, comparative to how many Queer actors there are.

2. Maybe the Queer actors who auditioned for the part were crappy actors. Not ALL of them, but what I am sort of saying is, should a movie simply hire someone Queer to play a Queer character because they are Queer? I think the right and best actor should get the part, regardless of Queerness.

3. Maybe there are some *almost* great Queer actors out there, who, because of the above, don't get enough acting time to become better actors to possibly get the big parts.

All that being said, I certainly would love to see more Queer actors out there.