Opinions

BullDog · 05-16-2012, 02:21 PM

Yes how can we capitalize on the momentum- I believe that is something many people could agree on. I do think those of us who find the President's announcement to be a positive thing are quite aware there is much more work to be done. I think President Obama is aware of that as well.

Sparkle · 05-16-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes how can we capitalize on the momentum- I believe that is something many people could agree on. I do think those of us who find the President's announcement to be a positive thing are quite aware there is much more work to be done. I think President Obama is aware of that as well.

I agree that the President is aware of that as well.

And the part I bolded, that is what I am responding to - I haven't seen anyone in this thread who has not said they think "Obama's announcement is a positive thing". And that is why it bothers me that people posting views in this thread that go beyond unequivocal cheerleading have been labeled as "picking apart" and diversive.

Pretty much everyone (in this thread and that I personally know) thinks Obama's announcement was a great thing and that it has very positive cultural and political ramifications AND some posters continue to analyze the political climate, the legal status of LGBT rights and continue discussing a strategy for leveraging that endorsement in to legal change. And doing so does not take away from the awesomeness of Obama's public announcement.

Cin · 05-16-2012, 02:45 PM

Well I certainly don’t need anyone’s acceptance, approval, understanding or permission to love anyone I please or to be exactly who I am. And I also want my basic human and civil rights. I do not plan on stopping wanting and advocating for them until I have them and then until every human being has them or until I stop breathing whichever comes first. However, I am very clear on the reality that I cannot achieve this alone or with only others like me. I do not need acceptance and approval on a personal level. But we all need it on a political level if we expect to achieve equal rights. I didn’t understand people’s posts about the good that can come from Obama’s statement as a cry to stop taking a critical view. I don’t believe politicians are anything but pawns for the financial elite who bought and paid for them. I have more than a critical view of all political figures. But again we cannot achieve anything alone. It is necessary to have support to affect change. I can understand both the impotence legislatively speaking of Obama’s statement and the monumental importance of it. I have seen many going beyond unequivocal cheerleading that have been quite delighted with Obama's statement. I don't think it is only those who are not unequivocally cheerleading who are taking a critical view. I also haven't seen all those not unequivocally cheerleading being labeled as "picking apart" and diversive.

BullDog · 05-16-2012, 02:45 PM

We are definitely reading some of the posts as well as the original article quoted differently then.

I think you are over stating things on your end. I am not looking for cheerleaders.

I think those of us on the left have a tendency to shoot ourselves in the foot when it comes to strategy and trying to work towards positive change.

There are queer issues that wouldn't affect me directly- such as trans sex/trans gender that I would still support. I would support them because of people I care about personally as well as my community. It would also be smart in a strategic sense.

The anti-marriage queers don't want certain legal rights to be attached to marriage. I can see the point, but truly I would like to make some progress instead of holding out for the Revolution which may never come.

Cin · 05-16-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

The anti-marriage queers don't want certain legal rights to be attached to marriage. I can see the point, but truly I would like to make some progress instead of holding out for the Revolution which may never come.

I sincerely hope it comes and soon. But I do agree with your point.

julieisafemme · 05-16-2012, 03:07 PM

Thank you Sparkle! The only thing I am picking apart are the public policy questions that will lead to federal legislation recognizing same sex marriage. I am from California and Prop 8 was such a painful blow. I could not believe the voters did that.

What if, G-d forbid, Obama does not win? What if we cannot get change on the federal level in the next four years and the next administration seeks to strengthen DOMA?

What if everything goes well and marriage equality is the norm and the rest of the LGBT issues are put on the back burner for another decade?

I don't necessarily have answers for all these questions. I am just asking them because I want to know what others think.

05-16-2012, 02:21 PM	#1
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Yes how can we capitalize on the momentum- I believe that is something many people could agree on. I do think those of us who find the President's announcement to be a positive thing are quite aware there is much more work to be done. I think President Obama is aware of that as well. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

05-16-2012, 02:45 PM	#4
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	We are definitely reading some of the posts as well as the original article quoted differently then. I think you are over stating things on your end. I am not looking for cheerleaders. I think those of us on the left have a tendency to shoot ourselves in the foot when it comes to strategy and trying to work towards positive change. There are queer issues that wouldn't affect me directly- such as trans sex/trans gender that I would still support. I would support them because of people I care about personally as well as my community. It would also be smart in a strategic sense. The anti-marriage queers don't want certain legal rights to be attached to marriage. I can see the point, but truly I would like to make some progress instead of holding out for the Revolution which may never come. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

05-16-2012, 03:07 PM	#6
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,434 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Thank you Sparkle! The only thing I am picking apart are the public policy questions that will lead to federal legislation recognizing same sex marriage. I am from California and Prop 8 was such a painful blow. I could not believe the voters did that. What if, G-d forbid, Obama does not win? What if we cannot get change on the federal level in the next four years and the next administration seeks to strengthen DOMA? What if everything goes well and marriage equality is the norm and the rest of the LGBT issues are put on the back burner for another decade? I don't necessarily have answers for all these questions. I am just asking them because I want to know what others think. Last edited by julieisafemme; 05-16-2012 at 03:09 PM.

05-16-2012, 02:45 PM	#3
Cin Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: In My Head Posts: 2,814 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,333 Thanked 10,436 Times in 2,476 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	Well I certainly don’t need anyone’s acceptance, approval, understanding or permission to love anyone I please or to be exactly who I am. And I also want my basic human and civil rights. I do not plan on stopping wanting and advocating for them until I have them and then until every human being has them or until I stop breathing whichever comes first. However, I am very clear on the reality that I cannot achieve this alone or with only others like me. I do not need acceptance and approval on a personal level. But we all need it on a political level if we expect to achieve equal rights. I didn’t understand people’s posts about the good that can come from Obama’s statement as a cry to stop taking a critical view. I don’t believe politicians are anything but pawns for the financial elite who bought and paid for them. I have more than a critical view of all political figures. But again we cannot achieve anything alone. It is necessary to have support to affect change. I can understand both the impotence legislatively speaking of Obama’s statement and the monumental importance of it. I have seen many going beyond unequivocal cheerleading that have been quite delighted with Obama's statement. I don't think it is only those who are not unequivocally cheerleading who are taking a critical view. I also haven't seen all those not unequivocally cheerleading being labeled as "picking apart" and diversive.