US Olympic Outfits

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Hollylane

I hear that you are saying that you are aware about the pay and treatment of outsourced workers.

While they are saving money, those savings are not showing up in the costs of these outfits, and we are not saving face in the eyes of the world by participating in giving more jobs to a country who so obviously does not care about their own people, our people, or the environment. In my opinion, by doing this, we are becoming a country of people who doesn't care about our people (jobs, even temporary ones are better than no employment opportunities), their people (workers who are forced to work for pennies, forced to work long hours, threatened, forced to live in unsanitary living quarters...etc...etc), or the environment (we do not hold their factories to the same standards of our own).

Is this the face of America? I hope not. I think it is the face of American Corporate Greed. It is a side of America, but not one that I'd like to see so prominently and shamelessly displayed at the Olympics.

I think that this is a fair post.

That said, most of the world associates the USA with corporate greed and this isn't something new. The fact that US athletes will wear clothing made in China won't make any difference whatsoever as to how the USA is perceived externally.

Originally Posted by Hollylane

As far as quality goes, I don't need to claim that American made clothing is better than what is produced in any other country. But, I will say that in my experience, most of the clothing I have ever purchased that was made in China, has not been of the best quality, and rarely keeps its shape or color through a few washes.

I spend a lot of money on clothing - much of which is designer labels, relatively expensive and manufactured in lower cost parts of Asia - including Ralph Lauren but the Ralph Lauren experience is by no means unique. Most higher-end fashion labels are also outsourced to lower cost parts of the world. In my experience, there's cheap and nasty, low quality clothing from Asia but, equally, very high quality clothing. Something of an over-simplification but you get what you pay for.

As for cost reduction of any outsourcing being passed on to the end consumer? Of course not. This is because a) it doesn't fit the corporate rationale for outsourcing which is to drive further profitability (i.e. it's about cutting costs, not prices) and b) in practice, outsourcing actually saves very little money as it gives rise to considerable supply chain issues. Ultimately, we're now starting to see a trend against outsourcing with supply chains being brought back into domestic economies.

Originally Posted by Hollylane

As a personal choice, I do not want to purchase anything that is made in another country that has something on it about our country. To be clear, I mean that I try not to purchase a Mt St Helen's sweat jacket, that is made in another country. If I want a memory of Washington, I'd like that article of clothing to at least be American made. It just doesn't carry the same memory value otherwise.

Good luck with this. In my experience, having visited multiple "tourist" locations across the USA, the vast majority of clothing and souvenirs at these places are manufactured overseas and most of it is, in my opinion, nothing more than tatt.

This isn't unique to the USA - it's the same here in the UK too and also continental Europe. You'll find the typical sweat jacket follows a cookie cutter pattern and the only difference being the words inscribed and the colours used .... but they are sourced from the same factories where workers have never been to Mt St Helens, nor would most of them know where it is and, more so, wouldn't care either.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

That said, most of the world associates the USA with corporate greed and this isn't something new. The fact that US athletes will wear clothing made in China won't make any difference whatsoever as to how the USA is perceived externally.

Well....right now 100% of all US military uniforms are made in the USA.... Georgia in fact. I wonder how fast the perception would change if we stayed at home where we belong, and let the rest of the world deal with their own shit while we deal with our corporate greed.

[UofMfan]

The uniforms for the 2002 Winter Olympics, you know the ones Mitt left Bain for and retired "retroactively" from to "save", were made in Burma, which until last year were controlled by a brutal military regime.

See article here.

"According to reports in 2002, the decision to outsource the torchbearer uniforms to Burma caused an uproar among human rights advocates and trade groups. It prompted the head of the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions to write a letter to the International Olympic Committee, stating that "No responsible organization or body should make use of products originating in Burma."

No wonder Candidate Romney has remained silent during this year's controversy.

So yeah, this isn't new. Perhaps what is new is more sources of information are easily available for the average "Joe", without having to actually pick up a newspaper or a magazine to do so.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Well....right now 100% of all US military uniforms are made in the USA.... Georgia in fact. I wonder how fast the perception would change if we stayed at home where we belong, and let the rest of the world deal with their own shit while we deal with our corporate greed.

Ciaran,

I'm apologize if my post had a bit more pepper than I'd intended. It was not aimed at you personally and I can see re-reading it that's exactly what it looks like.

It's very frustrating for me to see Americans step over other Americans that are hungry, homeless, and unemployed to help people that do not want our help or appreciate the efforts. Although the rest of the world may not see it, it matters very much to those that live here where those uniforms are made and this is why....



Detroit is 254 miles from here and it's as if it does not exist and what's happening to the people there does not matter to anyone but them. 254 miles and it could be us....508 miles and it could be St Louis. You see, it means so much more than simply where uniforms are made.

This shit matters

It matters a lot

[Okiebug61]

I will always believe if you provide jobs for people those people will work. I have full faith that our textile industry would have more than stepped up to the plate and made our Olympic uniforms at an affordable price. IMO Ralph Lauren is a joke. His designs are archaic and nothing more than bringing long ago items from different decades and mix matching. A double breasted jacket is a double breasted jacket.

I would have like to seen something funky and fun maybe a throw back from the 70's. OK I am aging myself but seriously the funky clothes rocked!

[EnderD_503]

Ugh, the rampant and arrogant American nationalism that has gone on in this thread is somewhat...nauseating.

As far as my own opinion, I really don't care if my nation's Olympic uniforms are made in Canada, China or Bangladesh. I come from an athletic background. Played sports all my life, have tremendous amount of respect for the dedication and talent many athletes have. But an event like Olympics these days is nothing short of hypocritical. The slogans talk about "bringing the world together," being "anti-racism" and ending barriers of discrimination. Bullshit. It's entirely corporate and being corporate is all about maintaining barriers of discrimination where they benefit making profit.

The uniforms for this year's Olympics are in many ways very fitting for that reason. Very Western capitalist on top of disrespecting female athletes. To me many of the styles look like American military uniforms...and that's pretty scary. And yeah, the women in skirts/gender division...not surprising, but it's been a while since the Olympics have been that overt about their sexism. Now let's see if they challenge anyone's status as a woman again this year. Maybe they can ruin another female athlete's career. They're already off to a great start by banning the Iranian women's football team and further victimising Iranian women and claiming to do so in defense of "secularism" and "leaving religion out of the Olympics." When you ban a team of Muslim women from Iran from the Olympics...you definitely ain't leaving religion out of it.

I support the athletes, but I do not support the IOC, the Olympics as a corporation, as an institution (and that includes the very institution that produced these uniforms), the blind nationalism that the modern Olympics promote, nor the promotion of normative bodies and the discrimination of bodies that are the sites of patriarchal anxieties.

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

I wonder how fast the perception would change if we stayed at home where we belong, and let the rest of the world deal with their own shit while we deal with our corporate greed.

And of course, someone has to come out with the "rah rah, we save the world from everything" bullshit. Get over yourselves and your militaristic, paternalistic imperialism that you call "foreign relations." It's honestly revolting.

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

Are the workers who make these clothes paid well?

Are they paid well in the US? Typically, no. American minimum wages are...shocking at best. In Ontario, minimum wage is $10,25 and even then it can be difficult to survive on that. In the US there are States that don't even have a minimum wage, and those that do are often ridiculously low. Additionally, who are the Americans working in clothing factories? Do you not realise that an overwhelming majority of the people working in factories in North America are migrant workers, so-called "illegals," and recent immigrants? And what do you think these factories look like?

If the poor wages that Chinese workers receive making these uniforms is one of your primary concern, you should be turning to the horrid wages in your own nation as well. Because chances are those uniforms, if made in the US, would be made by the US's most disadvantaged demographic, namely recent immigrants, migrant workers and those without "legal" status.

Why is it so important that these uniforms be made in the US? So you can support the inhumane treatment of disadvantaged workers on US soil rather than on foreign soil? Sorry to sound snarky, but it's true.

Originally Posted by Ciaran

That said, last time I looked, many US workers in the garment industry weren't well paid and, furthermore, with the cost of living in the US, you'll find that the quality of lifestyle of many full-time workers in the US is often not much better (and can be worse) than those in comparable roles in much of the developing world (BRIC nations and the Next Eleven).

Exactly.

Originally Posted by ruby_woo

I head up the recruiting for a company here in Vancouver that designs and produces outdoor clothing and equipment, and roughly 30% (I believe) of our manufacturing is done in Canada. Finding people who have experience working on a production sewing floor, cutting floor, etc., isn't easy. To be blunt, these aren't really jobs that Americans and Canadians are being trained for anymore. The average person working in our factory is a 50-year female Chinese immigrant.

QFT

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I snipped all but the above quote Ruby.

As included in the WWD article I posted below. The jobs were here in the US, with plenty of people to do the work, until they, little by little disappeared overseas. Would there still be folks here to do those same jobs now? We will never know because they are gone now:

"Today, just 3% of apparel in U.S. stores is made in the country, according to the Cotton Incorporated Retail Monitor™ survey. In 1960, American manufacturers produced 95% of all apparel sold here, according to STGC."

They may have been, but if the US industry was anything like it was in Canada in 1960, then you'd still have people like my grandmother making up a large demographic of the workers there. Meaning poor, recent immigrant, very little spoken English, worked to the bone to try to support a family, very few recognised rights. Let's wake up a little and see who's really working minimum wage, factory jobs in the majority of the world's nations, and that includes North America.

Originally Posted by Hollylane

Is this the face of America? I hope not. I think it is the face of American Corporate Greed. It is a side of America, but not one that I'd like to see so prominently and shamelessly displayed at the Olympics.

Very much so. That this is surprising to anyone boggles my mind.

I can understand the sentiment behind buying products made in your own nation. I used to think that way as well, thinking "well, I'm a poor fucker and they're a lot of other poor fuckers in Canada. Jobs can be hard to come by, so let's make more jobs." Heh... yeah, but either way the jobs being made are low paying jobs that use human beings as cash cows. As a low income worker you are always expendable, and whatever rights the government affords you (if you are lucky enough to be given status at all and not forced to work under the table to avoid being deported) don't matter because in non-unionised jobs rights mean nothing. You stand up for yourself and you get fired or warned or worse. The sad reality that nationalist sentiment overlooks.

Originally Posted by StillettoDoll

I really don't like the uniforms , the uniforms look a little on the" French style" . I mean it looks like it would be more suited for France! Berets? Whats up with the Beret hats? And that scarf on the women ugh!!!! Totally french

Um, seriously? That's your complaint? The uniforms look "French" to you? Oh how horrid that would be! [/sarcasm]

Seriously, people. Are we really so ready to buy into a competition that is essentially corporate greed that tries to mask itself as "embracing diversity" and "promoting good sportsmanship between nations"? Overall, I think there are more important things to worry about that might actually make a difference in people's quality of life.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

As far as my own opinion, I really don't care if my nation's Olympic uniforms are made in Canada, China or Bangladesh. I come from an athletic background. Played sports all my life, have tremendous amount of respect for the dedication and talent many athletes have. But an event like Olympics these days is nothing short of hypocritical. The slogans talk about "bringing the world together," being "anti-racism" and ending barriers of discrimination. Bullshit. It's entirely corporate and being corporate is all about maintaining barriers of discrimination where they benefit making profit.

Interestingly, the head of the London 2012 Organising Committee (Seb Coe, who won Olympic gold back in the 1980s) was interviewed today and claimed that spectators wearing Pepsi t-shirts would be barred from entering any of the Olympic stadia - due to Coca-Cola's sponsorship of the Olympics.

When asked if someone would get into one of the stadia wearing Nike footwear (Adidas is an Olympics sponsor), he wasn't sure but thought it would be okay !!! Of course, the spin doctor machinery was soon rolled out to smooth over all of this.


I've limited enthusiasm for the Olympics (which is actually more than most people I know here in London) but, on the positive side, earlier this week I was able to get tickets for the United Kingdom versus Italy womens' volleyball. I've never really watched volleyball but will be looking forward to this !

[chefhmboyrd]

I like these, very steam punk, yet with a twist...

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Ciaran,

I'm apologize if my post had a bit more pepper than I'd intended. It was not aimed at you personally and I can see re-reading it that's exactly what it looks like.

It's very frustrating for me to see Americans step over other Americans that are hungry, homeless, and unemployed to help people that do not want our help or appreciate the efforts. Although the rest of the world may not see it, it matters very much to those that live here where those uniforms are made and this is why....

Detroit is 254 miles from here and it's as if it does not exist and what's happening to the people there does not matter to anyone but them. 254 miles and it could be us....508 miles and it could be St Louis. You see, it means so much more than simply where uniforms are made.

This shit matters

It matters a lot

No apology is necessary Wolfsong. I understand that there are key issues at play here and it's right and proper that they are debated. The issues are far from being unique to the USA i.e. here in the British Isles, we have similar issues and, whilst I live in London, my home city is Belfast.

Belfast was one of the manufacturing powerhouses from the late 19th century, linen, shipbuilding, heavy industry etc but this has been decimated over the past two generations with much of that due to outsourcing to lower-cost economies.

Similarly, while whole regions of the USA are in economic decline (rust bucket areas, in particular), that's not dissimilar to the UK where economic activity is much lower in the northern part than in the southern part (Greater London)

I'm well aware of Detroit and it's structural issues - in part because I've an interest in some of the revitalisation that occurred in the mid 2000s with some of the great 1920s art deco buildings being revitalised. Of course, short-term urban planning added to by further economic decline has eroded much of this vision.


Therefore, I appreciate the issues that have arisen in this thread and, as I've stated, it's right that they are debated. However, I do disagree with some of the comments that have been made in the thread and, whilst it may not be appreciated by all, I've registered my own point of view to counter what I've taken an exception to.