American Consulate Attack in Libya

[Martina]

I was reading an article cited in the article Dreadgeek is quoting from. Not Stanley Fish's, but one they describe as admirably summing up the psychology of the protesters.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that that writer agreed with Rushdie's point about how the protesters construct their identity:

Soon you have a subculture: a sub-community whose very cohesion is based almost exclusively on shared grievance. Then you have an identity that has nothing to say about itself; an identity that holds an entirely impoverished position: that to be defiantly angry is to be.

Frankly, Muslims should find that prospect nothing short of catastrophic. It renders Islamic identity entirely hollow. All pride, all opposition, no substance. ''Like the Incredible Hulk,'' observes Abdal Hakim Murad, a prominent British Islamic scholar, ''ineffectual until provoked.''

On the way home I was listening on the radio to the PBS news broadcast and was so happy to hear that Syrians are using these events to disarm some of the militias. And to bring them more under the rule of law. That is a wonderful turn of events. I wish the press were covering more of that story. Maybe Newsweek will be forced to after the twitter responders showed them up re their Muslim Rage cover.

I am going to go read the Fish article. I shudder after that review of it.

One of my college professors had Fish as his dissertation advisor at Johns Hopkins back in the day. We all read Surprised by Sin (about Milton), Self-Consuming Artifacts, and Is There a Text in this Class. Even then, before he was a college administrator and later a public intellectual, it was clear Fish was carried away with the idea of the community of interpreters creating reality. Great literary theory. Interesting philosophy. Not a world view.

I agree with Dreadgeek and the article she cites. There are universal values based on what is good and healthy for human beings. For example, torture is bad, and eating nutritious food is good. Those are pretty universal.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press may not be the most essential values, but they protect us from us from having to endure serious human rights violations. Iran today has used the youtube video as an excuse to limit its people's access to google. Exactly what some people are saying is the motivation behind the protests. The film is an excuse to clamp down on secular influences.

I was thinking of Foxconn thing -- the workers rioting in the Chinese factory that makes, among other things, Apple products. It's just INSANE that we don't know what is happening on a day to day basis in those factories. This stuff could happen in a second in the United States. In a second -- if we didn't have our First Amendment rights. Did anyone see that report about the Microsoft data barns in Quincy, Oregon. Also in the Times.

First, a citizens group initiated a legal challenge over pollution from some of nearly 40 giant diesel generators that Microsoft’s facility — near an elementary school — is allowed to use for backup power.

Then came a showdown late last year between the utility and Microsoft, whose hardball tactics shocked some local officials.

In an attempt to erase a $210,000 penalty the utility said the company owed for overestimating its power use, Microsoft proceeded to simply waste millions of watts of electricity, records show. Then it threatened to continue burning power in what it acknowledged was an “unnecessarily wasteful” way until the fine was substantially cut, according to documents obtained by The New York Times.

“For a company of that size and that nature, and with all the ‘green’ things they advertised to me, that was an insult,” said Randall Allred, a utility commissioner and local farmer.

A Microsoft spokeswoman said the episode was “a one-time event that was quickly resolved.”

Internet-based industries have honed a reputation for sleek, clean convenience based on the magic they deliver to screens everywhere. At the heart of every Internet enterprise are data centers, which have become more sprawling and ubiquitous as the amount of stored information explodes, sprouting in community after community.

But the Microsoft experience in Quincy shows that when these Internet factories come to town, they can feel a bit more like old-time manufacturing than modern magic.

I guess one could argue that Western Europe is still free enough and safe enough (safer even) with some limitations on speech. But it's still hard to speak back to power in Europe. It's harder than it is here. The EU has regulation to protect folks (as should the U.S.), but if something is wrong that is in the best interest of the elites, good luck with that. Also, EU privacy laws may protect ordinary people from data mining using facial recognition software, but they also keep the halls of power pretty private and unapproachable.

In any case, we AREN'T Europe. As the article from the Daily Beast points out, the West is not monolithic. And freedom of speech and the press protect us from abuses like the ones attempted by Microsoft. They weren't that afraid of the regulators, I'd bet, but they sure are afraid of public opinion. Anyway, sorry for the rambling. I am getting to be an old crank. I can hear it in my tone.

Actually, not done yet. Also from that Daily Beast article Dreadgeek cited --

There are deep traditions of pluralism within Islamic theology and Arab culture. Moreover, there is no tradition of mob protests associated with insults against Islam or the Prophet Mohammed. This mob reaction to perceived insults is not "traditional," but rather grounded in a concatenation of circumstances, new interpretations of religion, and emergent political ideologies that developed during the 20th century.

Fish should know that. Anyway, if Fish's article is correctly characterized, then it is just a more sophisticated instance of throwing up one's hands and saying, "Oh, it’s just the Muslims, nothing to be done."

[Martina]

So typical of a literary critic to create some unnecessary construct and treat it as if it were real. I am talking about this:

. . . if you think that your religion is just an add-on to your essential personhood, like the political party you belong to or the football team you root for.

That is the view of religion we inherited from John Locke and other “accommodationist” Protestants, Protestants who entered into a bargain with the state: allow us freedom of worship, don’t meddle in our affairs and we won’t meddle in civic matters or attempt to make public institutions reflect theological doctrines. . . . .

Those who buy into this division of labor and authority will themselves be bifurcated entities. In their private lives they will live out the commands of their religion to the fullest. In their public lives — their lives as citizens — they will relax their religious convictions and display a tolerance they may not feel in their heart of hearts. We give witness to this dual identity when we declare, in fidelity to the First Amendment, “I hate and reject what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

People have been writing that kind of crap about modernity, well, since modernity. We are not bifurcated entities. Dual identities. *RME* Stanley, there is a discipline out there called psychology -- and I don't mean Freud. You might check into it. People in the modern world are people -- primates. To the extent that we are more disconnected from ourselves and each other, it's because our lives under Capitalism make it harder for us to live in the kinds of groups that we do best in. Why can't he -- and others -- talk about behavior and history and not create these ridiculous constructs out of thin air?

I liked this from one of the readers' comments after the article:

The discussion of free speech, while excellent, presupposes a context free of drones, bombs, invasions, rapes, murdered children, violated sovereignty, torture, illegal and unending detention, etc. etc.

And this reader's comment on Fish goes well with the Daily Beast article:

There seems to be an assumption by just about everyone that what those "foreigners" believe is different from what goes on here.

What about the Archbishops & Cardinals who insist that we must outlaw gay marriage? How is that different from the mullahs? Or the clergy who refuse communion to catholics who don't vote the way they want them to?

John Kennedy would have been condemned by today's Catholic hierarchy for the speech he gave in 1960.

I'm afraid the Locke point of view that informed our Bill of Rights isn't just out of sync with the Muslim world. It is no longer operative in the USA.

I guess Fish was being arrogant about Western Civilization, but it was a backhanded kind of arrogance. And it was patronizing to Muslims, I agree.

He is romanticizing religious Muslims AND treating them as if they were less complex than we are, a point made in the Daily Beast article.

Here's Fish:

In their eyes, a religion that confines itself to the heart and chapel, and is thus exercised intermittently while the day’s business gets done, is no religion at all. True religion does not relax its hold when you leave the house of worship; it commands your allegiance at all times and in all places. And the “you” whose allegiance it commands is not divided into a public “you” and a private “you”; it is the same at home as it is when abroad in the world.

and his last paragraph -- about people in the West:

But that means that protecting the marketplace by refusing to set limits on what can enter it is the highest value we affirm, and we affirm it no matter what truths might be vilified and what falsehoods might get themselves accepted. We have decided that the potential unhappy consequences of a strong free speech regime must be tolerated because the principle is more important than preventing any harm it might permit. We should not be surprised, however, if others in the world — most others, in fact — disagree, not because they are blind and ignorant but because they worship God and truth rather than the First Amendment, which not only keeps God and truth at arm’s length but regards them with a deep suspicion.

Is he not saying that we Capitalists are placing the marketplace of ideas and the wealth that has created for us above truth? Is he saying that if we prioritize freedom of speech, we almost stop caring whether truth or falsehood prevails? The current Pope cold have said that.

From a comment:

Stanley Fish as usual defending outrageous conservatism with a calm faux reasonableness. He could handily defend the inquisition too I'm sure.

[ruffryder]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Could you wish a little harder? Im beginning to believe the Mayan calender coming to an end on Dec 21st.

These tensions in other countries have been fueled by the U.S. weaking the Islamic revolution. I can't help but think it's only gonna get worse and not better. We have Iran now testing their missles and wanting to aim them at Israel and wipe them out. Iran claims to have long range drones that will sink Israel and other mideastern countries and they are telling everyone about it. God help us all.

"Iran has warned that if its nuclear facilities are attacked, it would plant as many as 5,000 mines in the strategic Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Persian Gulf and cut off the flow of one-fifth of the world’s oil.

But the United States has vowed to keep the Gulf open — and is now conducting a massive ship mine-sweeping exercise there through tomorrow. The Gulf is a few hundred miles from where Iran test-fired its anti-ship missiles.

Gen. Ali Fadavi of Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard said yesterday that the test proved Iran could sink a “big target” in less than a minute, according to Iran’s official Fars news agency.

He also said Iran is closely monitoring 64 US vessels in the region, including 20 engaged in the mine-sweeping exercise, along with British, French, Japanese and Emirates ships.

Another Revolutionary Guard official, Amir Ali Hajizadeh, said the new “Shahed 129” drone could be armed with “bombs and missiles” and has a range of 1,250 miles.

Hajizadeh said on Sunday that if war broke out between Iran and Israel, “it will turn into World War III” as other nations are drawn into it. He said Iran would target US bases in the event of an Israeli attack.

Obama alluded to the threatened cutoff of oil when he told the United Nations, “Make no mistake: a nuclear-armed Iran is not a challenge that can be contained. It would threaten the elimination of Israel, the security of Gulf nations and the stability of the global economy.”

War jitters helped drive up the price of oil on the world market about 1 percent yesterday before falling back.

Obama blasted Iran for helping to keep Syria’s bloody regime in power and refusing to cooperate fully with UN arms inspectors.

“Time and again, it has failed to take the opportunity to demonstrate that its nuclear program is peaceful, and to meet its obligations to the United Nations,’’ he said.

The remarks set the stage for Ahmadinejad’s annual anti-US, anti-Israel UN tirade today.

Outside the Warwick hotel, where he’s staying, about 50 protesters chanted “Ahmadinejad is a terrorist” and “we want Ahmadinejad out of the US now, now, now.” "

http://www.nypost.com