Non-packing butches

[Two-spirit]

Hi,

I dont pack.and never have,I tried it once but when I slept on my stomach ..it hurt so I took it off..

The strap on comes out of the toy box when Im ready for it with the ladies..

[oksoftbutch]

Like two-spirit I don't pack either, but I have been known to oblige a beautiful femme....

[chris1life]

I just found this site so I'm a newbie and am finding it so helpful. I have always thought of myself as butch and I loved that about myself. Where I am from there doesn't seem to be a lot of butch women. Anyway after getting online to try And find more women Like me I stumbled across a site that pretty much led me to believe I am not "butch enough" Because I don't like my hair short (it looks horrible on me) I have large breast, I hate binding it hurts and I rarely ever pack Because in public around my neck of the woods isn't smart. I do love for my femme to to strap Nothing sexier than her begging to use her cock. Yummy but at the end of the day I'm her butch she tells me she wants to feel my cock while she is dancing with me at a club I strap it, pack it or what ever she wants.
It Really does help to see there are so many different types of women out there. Some times we are just hard on each other. One thing I have learned from all of this is I'm me. I'm butch enough for me. If packing makes u feel like a complete you then do it up if it doesn't then don't. Wear long hair or short hair bind or don't. Only thing that counts is if you are Happy.

[always2late]

Originally Posted by chris1life

I just found this site so I'm a newbie and am finding it so helpful. I have always thought of myself as butch and I loved that about myself. Where I am from there doesn't seem to be a lot of butch women. Anyway after getting online to try And find more women Like me I stumbled across a site that pretty much led me to believe I am not "butch enough" Because I don't like my hair short (it looks horrible on me) I have large breast, I hate binding it hurts and I rarely ever pack Because in public around my neck of the woods isn't smart. I do love for my femme to to strap Nothing sexier than her begging to use her cock. Yummy but at the end of the day I'm her butch she tells me she wants to feel my cock while she is dancing with me at a club I strap it, pack it or what ever she wants.
It Really does help to see there are so many different types of women out there. Some times we are just hard on each other. One thing I have learned from all of this is I'm me. I'm butch enough for me. If packing makes u feel like a complete you then do it up if it doesn't then don't. Wear long hair or short hair bind or don't. Only thing that counts is if you are Happy.

This post hit home for me...because sometimes our community (not THIS community, but our community in general) can get very caught up in definitions and labels. It seems that some are more comfortable living in a cookie-cutter world where only their personal definition of what is "butch" or "femme" is applied. It galls me when I hear someone say something like "oh, so and so isn't a REAL butch (or femme)" because of the way they look...their hair is too long, or too short, they don't wear the "right" clothes, etc... No one has the right, or invitation, to define anyone else. Besides, who wants to live in a world like that? Where everyone had to conform to some predefined version of what butch or femme is? How boring would that be??

[TruTexan]

I'm a non packer. It's never even crossed my mind til now about packing. Hmmm, I wonder what it's like to pack? Maybe one day I'll try it an see if I like it. Who knows. But packing or not packing does NOT define my butchness. I am who I am and I'm me, period.

[Tangle]

I don't respond often to threads, but I felt compelled to do so in this thread. I skimmed most of the responses in here, and was surprised that I felt taken aback at a couple things I saw. I'd like to address them politely.

I read the following phrases used to describe sex with someone wearing a strap-on: "simulate hetero sex," and "act out male-female dynamics" - and they were both used in a negative context. Wow, really? I saw that Lady Snow addressed this a bit, but wanted to add my two cents. I have not, in the last 13 years, been with someone who did not choose to use a strap-on, and I have to say, I never felt even once that my relationship - or the act of sex within that relationship - was "simulating" anything! Trust me, every time it was the genuine article, an original piece of art. Granted, I at times "act out" lots of naughty things, but it never has to do with pretending to be straight.

This attitude seems reminiscent of verbiage used decades ago by feminist lesbians about how the B/F dynamic was in itself a pretend version of heterosexuality. I have to say, if the people participating in sex say they are queer - and believe they are queer - aren't they queer, and isn't that sex ultimately queer? Can I not claim a sexual act for myself because it feels good and sexy, without being told - not only by the straight world - that it isn't gay enough? Now that I'm on a roll, it feels a lot like being in a queer space and being told by some random person that it's not for straight girls like me b/c i'm wearing heels, a skirt, and long hair.

Isn't one of the first rules that you learn when you get your queer handbook to believe what someone tells you about their own identity? Come on now. Pretending to be straight has never entered my mind while being fucked by a butch or transguy. Even with a cock. Even on my back, in missionary position, in the dark!

*Sweet ladylike smile* Now. With regard to the spirit of this thread, my initial response, before I saw red, was that I personally have no preference when it comes to my lover packing or not. I've been with a transman who occasionally packed, a female-identified person who did constantly except to sleep, and another who never packed. In none of these situations was I turned-off by the lack of packing, nor did it change my perception of that person's gender or butchness.

This is my actual point, with that background in place: I personally find many things attractive about people I love. If my lover packs, it's a turn-on because it signifies something about her or him. I've had lovers who were into breasts until they fell for me, and now they're small-waist/ big-hip lovers. It's me that they love, and particular turn-ons follow naturally. If I were to fall in love with someone who had lots of freckles, that would become something I adored... but it's not something I need or that I seek out. If my spouse later had no freckles, would I miss them? Of course not. Each relationship is different. Packing is different things to different butches, and it isn't about what's between someone's legs that is important, it's about the energy with which they carry themselves - packing or not.

It is sad for me to think that there are butches who have been made to feel less a part of the community, or who have called into question their own feelings of masculinity because of their choices to pack or not. Likewise, people who do choose to pack have different reasons for it. Some may like the gender fuck of it, some may feel it helps them to feel more comfortable in the world or in their bodies to have that sensation. There are many other reasons. I'd like for all of us not to make presumptions about the meaning of packing or the lack of packing, and realize that we are all different, and that packing is not a sign or symptom of any level of gender-queer or masculinity.

*end novella*

[ProfPacker]

Originally Posted by Tangle

I don't respond often to threads, but I felt compelled to do so in this thread. I skimmed most of the responses in here, and was surprised that I felt taken aback at a couple things I saw. I'd like to address them politely.

I read the following phrases used to describe sex with someone wearing a strap-on: "simulate hetero sex," and "act out male-female dynamics" - and they were both used in a negative context. Wow, really? I saw that Lady Snow addressed this a bit, but wanted to add my two cents. I have not, in the last 13 years, been with someone who did not choose to use a strap-on, and I have to say, I never felt even once that my relationship - or the act of sex within that relationship - was "simulating" anything! Trust me, every time it was the genuine article, an original piece of art. Granted, I at times "act out" lots of naughty things, but it never has to do with pretending to be straight.

This attitude seems reminiscent of verbiage used decades ago by feminist lesbians about how the B/F dynamic was in itself a pretend version of heterosexuality. I have to say, if the people participating in sex say they are queer - and believe they are queer - aren't they queer, and isn't that sex ultimately queer? Can I not claim a sexual act for myself because it feels good and sexy, without being told - not only by the straight world - that it isn't gay enough? Now that I'm on a roll, it feels a lot like being in a queer space and being told by some random person that it's not for straight girls like me b/c i'm wearing heels, a skirt, and long hair.

Isn't one of the first rules that you learn when you get your queer handbook to believe what someone tells you about their own identity? Come on now. Pretending to be straight has never entered my mind while being fucked by a butch or transguy. Even with a cock. Even on my back, in missionary position, in the dark!

*Sweet ladylike smile* Now. With regard to the spirit of this thread, my initial response, before I saw red, was that I personally have no preference when it comes to my lover packing or not. I've been with a transman who occasionally packed, a female-identified person who did constantly except to sleep, and another who never packed. In none of these situations was I turned-off by the lack of packing, nor did it change my perception of that person's gender or butchness.

This is my actual point, with that background in place: I personally find many things attractive about people I love. If my lover packs, it's a turn-on because it signifies something about her or him. I've had lovers who were into breasts until they fell for me, and now they're small-waist/ big-hip lovers. It's me that they love, and particular turn-ons follow naturally. If I were to fall in love with someone who had lots of freckles, that would become something I adored... but it's not something I need or that I seek out. If my spouse later had no freckles, would I miss them? Of course not. Each relationship is different. Packing is different things to different butches, and it isn't about what's between someone's legs that is important, it's about the energy with which they carry themselves - packing or not.

It is sad for me to think that there are butches who have been made to feel less a part of the community, or who have called into question their own feelings of masculinity because of their choices to pack or not. Likewise, people who do choose to pack have different reasons for it. Some may like the gender fuck of it, some may feel it helps them to feel more comfortable in the world or in their bodies to have that sensation. There are many other reasons. I'd like for all of us not to make presumptions about the meaning of packing or the lack of packing, and realize that we are all different, and that packing is not a sign or symptom of any level of gender-queer or masculinity.

*end novella*

I think the above is very true. I am one of those older feminist who was not quieter enough if I grabbed up a few decades ago, not poo logical enough because of my clothes for the radical lesbians. I am female identified but love being butch in bed. As others know I have just asked myself to pack and it has to do with the sensuality of the packing not gender bending. In my younger days of we wanted to use and like cock in bed it was on pc. I can now see what I was denying myself great joy.
When our community was denied our desires to celebrate all on the continuum we join the heteronormative world in maintaining our own oppression.