What attracts you to Ftms ......

[Toughy]

everybody who keeps talking about and being supportive of a 'june cleaver lifestyle'............

Did any of you actually LIVE during the 50's? I did. It was oppressive, sexist with some misogyny tossed in and certainly the 50's had little to do with June and Ward, Ozzie and Harriet or Father Knows Best. Hell of a time to grow up as a girl........even as a boy

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by Toughy

everybody who keeps talking about and being supportive of a 'june cleaver lifestyle'............

Did any of you actually LIVE during the 50's? I did. It was oppressive, sexist with some misogyny tossed in and certainly the 50's had little to do with June and Ward, Ozzie and Harriet or Father Knows Best. Hell of a time to grow up as a girl........even as a boy

I'm sorry your life wasn't pleasent then...my family was dysfunctional no matter what decade they were in....lol....but let's just say I miss manners, courtesy, gentleness, education, family time at dinner, less crime, more overall trust & honesty.

At least that is what I experienced. I belive that common courtesy & manners should ALWAYS be exhibited in life no matter what year. I believe that gentlemanly actions & manners are lacking a lot now days....as in common politeness & courtesy.

No the '50's may not have been perfect, you're right.....but, they did have some things I miss now days. It's a shame that these things are referred to as "old time' values & traits.

Jonathan

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

I'm sorry your life wasn't pleasent then...my family was dysfunctional no matter what decade they were in....lol....but let's just say I miss manners, courtesy, gentleness, education, family time at dinner, less crime, more overall trust & honesty.

At least that is what I experienced. I belive that common courtesy & manners should ALWAYS be exhibited in life no matter what year. I believe that gentlemanly actions & manners are lacking a lot now days....as in common politeness & courtesy.

No the '50's may not have been perfect, you're right.....but, they did have some things I miss now days. It's a shame that these things are referred to as "old time' values & traits.

Jonathan

Manners, courtesy are not gender nor time specific, I feel that to be a very popular misconception when it comes to the "Cleavers" reference.

I won't even go into the whole racism, classism issues with the Cleavers.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Manners, courtesy are not gender nor time specific, I feel that to be a very popular misconception when it comes to the "Cleavers" reference.

I won't even go into the whole racism, classism issues with the Cleavers.

Is tht we ALL get to agree with what's right for us & we ALL get a voice & we ALL deserve to be allowed to do such...at least in this venue...yes?

I find manners & courtesy are SORELY lacking nowdays....maybe people don't have time for them? Or maybe people are SO selfish it doesn't occur or matter to them...but, you are right they are not & should not be time or gender specific..<smile>

Jonathan

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by DMW

Actually, i prefer Donna Reed. Or Alice Kramden. I guess i am not that much of a gentleman. To each his own. Both of them had sexy ass brains, wit and sassiness. That special femme power that only a femme can have. Not to mention, the ability to do all of the stuff that i don't do or don't care to do. And all the other special things...those little girly/woman things...that make life better.

What are girly/woman things?

Can you please clarify what these special traits are, I didn't get a manual or any kind of instruction booklet on all things woman/girly...

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

Is tht we ALL get to agree with what's right for us & we ALL get a voice & we ALL deserve to be allowed to do such...at least in this venue...yes?

I find manners & courtesy are SORELY lacking nowdays....maybe people don't have time for them? Or maybe people are SO selfish it doesn't occur or matter to them...but, you are right they are not & should not be time or gender specific..<smile>

Jonathan

Correct I believe we can all state our preferences or desires WITHOUT having to step on the backs of others OR setting a hierarchy of what makes FEMME a Femme and what it's expected of a FEMME.

We (Femme's) come in all kinds of varieties, values, etc etc. I'm all for everyone doing what floats their boat.

But when someone uses words like "scoff" it's irritating because it's not "scoffing" it's a choice (just like the choice to be in a June Cleaver existance) and to paint those of us who don't in a negative tone is and was totally unnecessary when describing one's own desires and wants.

This has been stated over and over again when this whole "50's" kinda Femme gets brought up, those of us who don't choose it get painted in a bad light.


True story.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

This has been stated over and over again when this whole "50's" kinda Femme gets brought up, those of us who don't choose it get painted in a bad light.


True story.

Well, it definitely shouldn't be like this either.

In the words of the departed Rodney King, "Can we all get along?"

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Well, it definitely shouldn't be like this either.

In the words of the departed Rodney King, "Can we all get along?"

Yes we should, it's not hard to state one's preferences and keep those preferences, desires, wants, needs, and must haves. It's when those things are stated with a quick jab, at those who don't roll that way are made that the problems start.

We just had this very same convo not even a few months ago in another thread when "50's nostalgia" was brought up.

[DMW]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

What are girly/woman things?

Can you please clarify what these special traits are, I didn't get a manual or any kind of instruction booklet on all things woman/girly...

I don't believe there is a manual or instruction booklet out on all things woman and girly....and i don't believe that everyone would feel the same about what is "woman or girly"..so, the booklet wouldn't work for everyone i suppose.

However, for me...Woman/girly attributes that i like...her smell, her voice, her smile, her walk. Her fingernail polish, her perfume,her hair and her kisses. All of her female energy.
Those are just some of the little things that i like...that actually amount to a lot. I won't go into anymore detail regarding the other little things that i adore about a femme. Not here anyway.

I agree that manners and common courtesy are not gender or time specific either.

[weatherboi]

For me, describing everyday kindness and manners under the guise of old fashioned/old school is just antiquated thinking. In my world, none of these things are gender specific, age specific, or heteronormative specific. The days are long gone that I need to adopt herteronormative ideals in order for me validate my relationship or my gender. It is no longer necessary for me.

I know the many reasons why I am attracted to Her and She is attracted to me. The list gets longer everyday and it strengthens the endless nature to attraction and love. It is this endless exchange that grows this Femme led relationship.

Chivalry, manners, and attraction are not dead...they just doesn't always look or act like an old 50's sitcom, nor does it only belong to any gender or culture.

I am not sure why kink was brought up.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

For me, describing everyday kindness and manners under the guise of old fashioned/old school is just antiquated thinking. In my world, none of these things are gender specific, age specific, or heteronormative specific. The days are long gone that I need to adopt herteronormative ideals in order for me validate my relationship or my gender. It is no longer necessary for me.

I know the many reasons why I am attracted to Her and She is attracted to me. The list gets longer everyday and it strengthens the endless nature to attraction and love. It is this endless exchange that grows this Femme led relationship.

Chivalry, manners, and attraction are not dead...they just doesn't always look or act like an old 50's sitcom, nor does it only belong to any gender or culture.

I am not sure why kink was brought up.

Again, your opinion & I respect that. I'm not aware I truly placed manners & common courtesy ONLY in the "good old days" at all. I simply have found that people today aren't as aware or concerned with them....that's been my experience. From the snotty nosed child who bolts past you & runs into you not saying excuse me....to the woman OR man who cuts right in front of you to grab a box of faux mac & cheese & seems completely oblivious to the space that you inhabit.....THAT is what I'm talking about......I was raised to say please & thank you, excuse me, pardon me etc...I was born in the 50's & my friends from then were also taught likewise....I KNOW there are parents & teachers who teach it today also....it just seems to ME it is less prevelant.....that's all.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

What are girly/woman things?

Can you please clarify what these special traits are, I didn't get a manual or any kind of instruction booklet on all things woman/girly...






Correct I believe we can all state our preferences or desires WITHOUT having to step on the backs of others OR setting a hierarchy of what makes FEMME a Femme and what it's expected of a FEMME.

We (Femme's) come in all kinds of varieties, values, etc etc. I'm all for everyone doing what floats their boat.

But when someone uses words like "scoff" it's irritating because it's not "scoffing" it's a choice (just like the choice to be in a June Cleaver existance) and to paint those of us who don't in a negative tone is and was totally unnecessary when describing one's own desires and wants.

This has been stated over and over again when this whole "50's" kinda Femme gets brought up, those of us who don't choose it get painted in a bad light.


True story.

nor will I........& I'm not "painting" so.....I still maintain it's all ok. I am sorry you have had such experiences however...I believe that sucks !

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

nor will I........& I'm not "painting" so.....I still maintain it's all ok. I am sorry you have had such experiences however...I believe that sucks !

It was never implied that *you* scoffed, what WAS implied is those of us who don't choose to live this way "BALK" at those who do.

That is an unfair judgement/assumption.

We're all different on who and what we are attracted to, not all Femme's are going to be into a June-Ward dynamic nor are all FTM's going to be as well.


As I have said before and others have as well

It's great that we get to talk about our desires and wants and what turns us on, what is NOT cool is when one (general) makes an untrue assumption on those that don't happen to roll in that way.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Actually it started like this.


I don't balk, the people I date/own/fuck aren't stable...


Hence my post after those particular posts.

Originally Posted by FemmeBibliophile

I, like others, agree that it's an energy thing.

But I also have to say that I have been treated the absolute best out of any relationships by the FtMs that I have dated.

They seem to understand and "get" the June Cleaver lifestyle. They respect it. They don't balk at many of the common courtesies. Doors get held open, chairs pulled back, Ma'am is said...

At the end of the day, it's just who I am attracted to.

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

They seem to understand and "get" the June Cleaver lifestyle. They respect it. They don't balk at many of the common courtesies. Doors get held open, chairs pulled back, Ma'am is said...

Yes indeed....it's how I believe it should be....thanks for noticing when we do it...<smile>....

Originally Posted by Heavenleahangel

I am what I call old fashioned/ old school and I absolutely agree with the respect and dynamics of the relationship. I seem to be a million miles away from every single, stable ftm on the Planet! Just my luck!!!

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Hmm, I am one of those Femme's that's attracted to fella's with Feminist values and are confident in themselves to let me lead the relationship.

That kinda person if fucking HAWT!

[DMW]

Unfortunately, the late night editing of my random feelings and thoughts regarding how i feel personally...got cut up by me, without me
recognizing, until now, that what i had originally posted got hosed up....specifically, My point b) isn't even there. So, i don't even recall what i originally posted or what thought processes got left out or unfinished. So, the post wound up being even more confusing or misrepresentitive of what i was trying to convey. I do recognize that barfing up my feelings onto this website has the capacity to open up a can of worms and cause confusion and strife and bring up emotions. I must say...that i didn't post those feelings with a purpose to get a response from others or to be noticed by anyone nor to try and get attention or heard or what have you. But, this is a public forum. So, i should expect a reaction, i suppose. I do have to take responsibility for what i have posted, eventhough my late night...not well thought out blab didn't come across original because i cut it up and lost it. That doesn't necessarily mean that i would be understood the way i wanted to be. And i think i may have offended people. I don't like that. I don't have an insecurity issue with it either.
i am wanting to answer people's questions but at the same time deal with my own emotions and feelings and find the words as to why i am bothered and what is disturbing me. So, selfishly, i have to focus on what irks me before i try and clear up what was originally posted by me or answer the questions. I may never be able to find that original thought or feeling to my post.
I just want to apologize for blabbing and then not being able to clear it up sooner rather than later.
I think for me...what it comes down to is this...being perceived as a previleged white male ...in society has its advantages...yes. However, it has it's drawbacks, also. When people look at me...they assume...ah...he is a white male and this is how his life has been...And it just isn't so.
(i guess it is like the "invisibility" feeling that femmes have and have to put up with)

And so, when i come here to this website ...it is as though i expect more understanding and some kind of relief from this community. And that isn't necessarily fair...especially if many do not know me well here or don't have any kind of foundation of that awareness (of who i am) to draw upon. That is asking a lot. It really is.
In addition, if i don't explain where i am coming from...then how the hell would
anyone know that....hey...that asshole remark that he just made...(I prefer Donna Reed and or Alice Kramden)...I may like Donna Reed in a dress and all...but, i do not expect her to go and get my morning paper or my coffee because i demand that... not unless she wants to. I want her to go and get my morning paper and my coffee because...it is what she wants to do because it makes her happy to make me happy.

I do want to apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. I am sorry for that sincerely.
DMW

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire
They seem to understand and "get" the June Cleaver lifestyle. They respect it. They don't balk at many of the common courtesies. Doors get held open, chairs pulled back, Ma'am is said...

Yes indeed....it's how I believe it should be....thanks for noticing when we do it...<smile>....

& guess what Snow....I stand by my statement totally! Doors should get held open...<in MY world> Chairs pulled back..<in MY world>.....Common courtesy, manners also...<in MY world> Now, if that makes you feel oppressed or your feminity threatened..<which I doubt btw having read many of your posts...lol> oh well. YOUR world is YOUR world & MINE is MINE. I don't post to offend anyone, but, if I can't, or anyone can't post what they feel or think on these boards, then is this any better than the outside world where we all are subjected to censorship etc.? Now no, people should not be allowed to post derogatory things about others on here, but we are ALL entitled to our opinions, yes?

Out in the r/t world we seek people who have similar interests, similar tastes in life.....common ground as it were. We are all looking to find like minded souls to travel this journey with. Well, at at least I am.

Now then...back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

Originally Posted by Darbonaire
They seem to understand and "get" the June Cleaver lifestyle. They respect it. They don't balk at many of the common courtesies. Doors get held open, chairs pulled back, Ma'am is said...

Yes indeed....it's how I believe it should be....thanks for noticing when we do it...<smile>....

& guess what Snow....I stand by my statement totally! Doors should get held open...<in MY world> Chairs pulled back..<in MY world>.....Common courtesy, manners also...<in MY world> Now, if that makes you feel oppressed or your feminity threatened..<which I doubt btw having read many of your posts...lol> oh well. YOUR world is YOUR world & MINE is MINE. I don't post to offend anyone, but, if I can't, or anyone can't post what they feel or think on these boards, then is this any better than the outside world where we all are subjected to censorship etc.? Now no, people should not be allowed to post derogatory things about others on here, but we are ALL entitled to our opinions, yes?

Out in the r/t world we seek people who have similar interests, similar tastes in life.....common ground as it were. We are all looking to find like minded souls to travel this journey with. Well, at at least I am.

Now then...back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Um, Darbonaire I was quoting what and how this whole thing originated. Not once did I say Darbonaire did this and that.

Please don't speak to me like I am some dimwit that doesn't get what is what I believe I have explained what the issue is what seems like millions of times.

Opinions can be stated without stepping on the desires of others. It's been said over and over and over again.

[ruffryder]

We are in the thread FTM and what attracks people to FTMs, yes?

" the rest had been snipped out based on Medusa's posting after I posted, etc.. out of respect "

[Tony]

Originally Posted by DMW

Unfortunately, the late night editing of my random feelings and thoughts regarding how i feel personally...got cut up by me, without me
recognizing, until now, that what i had originally posted got hosed up....specifically, My point b) isn't even there. So, i don't even recall what i originally posted or what thought processes got left out or unfinished. So, the post wound up being even more confusing or misrepresentitive of what i was trying to convey. I do recognize that barfing up my feelings onto this website has the capacity to open up a can of worms and cause confusion and strife and bring up emotions. I must say...that i didn't post those feelings with a purpose to get a response from others or to be noticed by anyone nor to try and get attention or heard or what have you. But, this is a public forum. So, i should expect a reaction, i suppose. I do have to take responsibility for what i have posted, eventhough my late night...not well thought out blab didn't come across original because i cut it up and lost it. That doesn't necessarily mean that i would be understood the way i wanted to be. And i think i may have offended people. I don't like that. I don't have an insecurity issue with it either.
i am wanting to answer people's questions but at the same time deal with my own emotions and feelings and find the words as to why i am bothered and what is disturbing me. So, selfishly, i have to focus on what irks me before i try and clear up what was originally posted by me or answer the questions. I may never be able to find that original thought or feeling to my post.
I just want to apologize for blabbing and then not being able to clear it up sooner rather than later.
I think for me...what it comes down to is this...being perceived as a previleged white male ...in society has its advantages...yes. However, it has it's drawbacks, also. When people look at me...they assume...ah...he is a white male and this is how his life has been...And it just isn't so.
(i guess it is like the "invisibility" feeling that femmes have and have to put up with)

And so, when i come here to this website ...it is as though i expect more understanding and some kind of relief from this community. And that isn't necessarily fair...especially if many do not know me well here or don't have any kind of foundation of that awareness (of who i am) to draw upon. That is asking a lot. It really is.
In addition, if i don't explain where i am coming from...then how the hell would
anyone know that....hey...that asshole remark that he just made...(I prefer Donna Reed and or Alice Kramden)...I may like Donna Reed in a dress and all...but, i do not expect her to go and get my morning paper or my coffee because i demand that... not unless she wants to. I want her to go and get my morning paper and my coffee because...it is what she wants to do because it makes her happy to make me happy.

I do want to apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. I am sorry for that sincerely.
DMW

I came in to see if the thread got back on point. I see it hasn't but I will say this is how I feel as well. Also why I've stayed away from this whole discussion (well, until now lol).

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

I'm sorry your life wasn't pleasent then...my family was dysfunctional no matter what decade they were in....lol....but let's just say I miss manners, courtesy, gentleness, education, family time at dinner, less crime, more overall trust & honesty.

At least that is what I experienced. I belive that common courtesy & manners should ALWAYS be exhibited in life no matter what year. I believe that gentlemanly actions & manners are lacking a lot now days....as in common politeness & courtesy.

No the '50's may not have been perfect, you're right.....but, they did have some things I miss now days. It's a shame that these things are referred to as "old time' values & traits.

Jonathan

I never said my life was unpleasant. I had a great childhood with a relatively functional family.

I saw as many bad manners and lack of a family time at dinner and lack of common courtesy etc among my friend's families as I saw among other friend's mannered families. June and Ward were not the norm in the 50's anymore than bad manners are the norm in the 21st century.