What attracts you to Ftms ......

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Guy

Hi Stephanie,


I think by being condecending towards the fifties lifestyle, just because someone does not agree with it, is disrespectful.

I realize we're sort of shutting down this part of the discussion, but I'll just add that I agree being condescending toward anyone could be considered disrespectful; but I didn't see the connection between that and this being in the trans zone, and your reference to the lifestyle, that's all. I just wanted to understand where your comment was coming from.

[BrutalDaddy]

Okay, got Ursula parked for the night, finally.


DMV, Julie pretty much hit the nail on the head with the use of the word shame, for me.

There were specific incidents, growing up as a female but feeling/knowing something just was not right with me, that caused the shame. It's not something I'll talk about out in the open but it's not something I will put away forever either because it is a part of the journey I've taken to get here. I gotta take the good with the bad. Lol.

I can honestly say that Julie has played a very very major role in me finally being totally okay with aligning my outside with my inside. I don't think she realizes that though. A lot of it comes from the religious upbringing and family that I come from. Yet they all adore Julie. Hell my own granny forced us to have a shot gun wedding at her house. My mom, in the past year or two, has started calling me, "her son". Most of the above has happened because they see that someone like me, a FTM, can be loved and accepted by another. That I'm not just some freak of nature or worse yet, someone who enjoys "dancing with the Devil" just to be the black sheep of the family.

Oh lordy, that was a derail if there ever was one but felt the need to share that. I guess what it boils down to is this....I am so damn grateful for threads like this because it's nice to be reminded every now and then why someone like myself could and would be appreciated, and not just by their lover/wife/spouse/partner or family.


Y'all Rock For Now,
Brute.


P.S. Snow, you scare me all the time. Just sayin'. *grinning*

[Bèsame*]

The honesty they share, the emotions they have about themselves, the energy they project.

Ranch house is a plus as well

[VintageFemme]

Their courage, strength of heart & spirit, the will to be true to who they are in the face of much bigotry, adversity and misunderstanding. And physically for me, just their sheer hottiness. Mhmmm.

[DMW]

Humm...i am pondering on this now...all of the derails...including some of my own...wondering if i should put my feelings in here...this space where people are supposed to be able to say what attracts them to people. feeling that i would just like to have a space to breathe and be my asshole, masculine, wonderful self and not feel picked at...a feeling as if i were cariron for vulchers...nor, do i like feeling or seeing ...especially submissive femmes...going through what must feel somewhat the same...( i am not quite sure) i believe buttons are being pushed when i voice out my honest genuine self (when and as if, i were talking with someone i adored or was being intimate with or a friend or brother that knows me well,but, i am here)...which leads me to suppose i should tamper myself...protect and guard myself with what i say or share...i have to ask myself..how are these people...to understand that...i am not a man that looks at a woman in a demeaning light...or see's her ...as if she belongs in a role that would make her feel badly about herself. If i were to say...damn...what you just said was so fing hot and i would like to bend *** **** *************...better censor myself here...because one...i don't share that well in a public space because...a.) it is sacred to me...how i talk to MY WOMAN...because, to me, she is sacred and so is that bond... and b.) now, i should tamper that down even more.....to darkness...because...i might offend someone for being me... not to mention,this is a space for those who are attracted to ftms to speak... not really me to reply to that... also, with what i say...may be perceived or thought of as "talking down to a woman or being sexist or...i don't know...wrong)...and it could make some women feel badly or trigger them...i suppose..i have to think more about this...i would like to start a new thread...but, i don't know how yet. I have grown tired of feeling like i have to apologize when i am just being myself. It is actually quite disturbing...the feeling like i have to defend myself or others just for being here.

I refuse to pick apart anyone else's previous posts because...i don't want them to feel picked on like carrion either...but, i won't lay down either and i hate to see...anyone lay down when they are just trying to express themselves...

[Hominid]

@dmw -
I commend you on your struggle to be clear, to be heard, to be yourself. It's very hard to be see for who you are in the written word. I learned in another thread (and was summarily smacked down for what other's say routinely) that one just can't take for granted that you will be "heard". The only way I've figured out to do it, if I care enough about the topic to go through the effort, is to use the "sandwich" technique. Put what you have to say between two pieces of metaphorical bread - qualifiers, compliments - something to make clear that what you have to say is just you. Do I resent that? A little. Then again, if it keeps someone from feeling judged or insulted, I suppose it's worth it.

On another note - alluding to the June Cleaver stuff, and somewhat what you have to say about speaking to your mate - I think some of what we who profess to admire or desire a '50's type dynamic are misunderstood, and also misrepresent. The key is: it's a kink, on some level. It's the idea of what it means to us now - not what it meant then. There was no choice then. There is now. It has become more appealing because there IS a choice. And again, it's taking on the parts that from a distance are appealing, and leaving behind the unpleasantness that made that a reality at one time. Kind of like those folks who are into Medieval Fairs - it's romanticized, far removed from what life was like for the actual participants, and based on an idea, a dynamic, not what it meant to be covered in smallpox scars and be covered in lice, no matter your social status.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Hominid

@dmw -
I commend you on your struggle to be clear, to be heard, to be yourself. It's very hard to be see for who you are in the written word.

I learned in another thread (and was summarily smacked down for what other's say routinely) that one just can't take for granted that you will be "heard".

The only way I've figured out to do it, if I care enough about the topic to go through the effort, is to use the "sandwich" technique. Put what you have to say between two pieces of metaphorical bread - qualifiers, compliments - something to make clear that what you have to say is just you. Do I resent that? A little. Then again, if it keeps someone from feeling judged or insulted, I suppose it's worth it.

On another note - alluding to the June Cleaver stuff, and somewhat what you have to say about speaking to your mate - I think some of what we who profess to admire or desire a '50's type dynamic are misunderstood, and also misrepresent. The key is: it's a kink, on some level. It's the idea of what it means to us now - not what it meant then. There was no choice then. There is now. It has become more appealing because there IS a choice. And again, it's taking on the parts that from a distance are appealing, and leaving behind the unpleasantness that made that a reality at one time. Kind of like those folks who are into Medieval Fairs - it's romanticized, far removed from what life was like for the actual participants, and based on an idea, a dynamic, not what it meant to be covered in smallpox scars and be covered in lice, no matter your social status.

People coming in and stating their views and having a conversation is not a "SMACK DOWN"

I am unsure of what thread you are talking about since there are so many here on BFP, but I have yet to see anyone *smacking* anyone have folks been taken to task? Yes Do the isms get called out? Yeap. If you are being harrassed or threatened on BFP you should really really have the Moderators take care of that for you

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

DMW would you be so kind and clarify what you meant? Thank you

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

People coming in and stating their views and having a conversation is not a "SMACK DOWN"

I am unsure of what thread you are talking about since there are so many here on BFP, but I have yet to see anyone *smacking* anyone have folks been taken to task? Yes Do the isms get called out? Yeap. If you are being harrassed or threatened on BFP you should really really have the Moderators take care of that for you

Ugh!!!

I understand the feeling that some people may have that they are being jumped on. Which was what I was trying to talk to you, Snow, about when my head imploded.

I wasn't talking about the "being scared of" bits because THAT, I don't get. And I've told you a bunch of time that it makes no sense to me why people are scared of you???? That's got to suck to hear all the time when all you're here to do is interact with people who you like and and are like you in many ways.

The above responses to me are totally reasonable. I think if someone puts out there that they are feeling attacked, bullied or XYZ...then ask about it. Like you did. No judgement, no attack, just a hey.....can you help me out with this, I don't get it.

However, I do understand why people feel jumped on.....and since I can't multi-quote as well as I'd like, I'm gonna have to finish this in a second post....so stand by....

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Hominid

I think some of what we who profess to admire or desire a '50's type dynamic are misunderstood, and also misrepresent. The key is: it's a kink, on some level. It's the idea of what it means to us now - not what it meant then. There was no choice then. There is now. It has become more appealing because there IS a choice. And again, it's taking on the parts that from a distance are appealing, and leaving behind the unpleasantness that made that a reality at one time. Kind of like those folks who are into Medieval Fairs - it's romanticized, far removed from what life was like for the actual participants, and based on an idea, a dynamic, not what it meant to be covered in smallpox scars and be covered in lice, no matter your social status.

I think this is a fair comparison, as Medieval times also were not a shining example of women's rights, nor rights for the less fortunate. No one but the wealthy had rights and I do see the similarity between the two times.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by femmsational

Ugh!!!

I understand the feeling that some people may have that they are being jumped on. Which was what I was trying to talk to you, Snow, about when my head imploded.

I wasn't talking about the "being scared of" bits because THAT, I don't get. And I've told you a bunch of time that it makes no sense to me why people are scared of you???? That's got to suck to hear all the time when all you're here to do is interact with people who you like and and are like you in many ways.

The above responses to me are totally reasonable. I think if someone puts out there that they are feeling attacked, bullied or XYZ...then ask about it. Like you did. No judgement, no attack, just a hey.....can you help me out with this, I don't get it.

However, I do understand why people feel jumped on.....and since I can't multi-quote as well as I'd like, I'm gonna have to finish this in a second post....so stand by....

And when people ask where and when they were "attacked & bullied" there's nothing, no response. IF the bullying, and attacking does happen we have this great option called the report button, and if you are one of the people who do not like using the report button then I fear that the attacks and alleged bullying will go unnoticed by the Moderating team.

BFP isn't like any other online forum when it comes to them shenanigans, it really isn't read around...


This is a tiring argument that each time an ism or the bullshit is called out, people start saying:

I'm being silenced

I am being jumped on, attacked, chased out, afraid, bullied.



We are all equal here, there is no heirarchy and we are all free to post as long as we abide the TOS.

NOT ONCE in this tiring conversation has anyone bullied, attacked, picked on, anyone.


True story.



PS


I can't tell you how fucking tired I am of people claiming I am scary, or frightening. If you knew me, truly knew me you'd laugh and shake your head at the ridiculousness of the descriptors....

[Hominid]

I'm not even going to go there - I have no desire to expand this, and shouldn't have brought it up to begin with. It was not someone sharing his views.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

People coming in and stating their views and having a conversation is not a "SMACK DOWN"

I am unsure of what thread you are talking about since there are so many here on BFP, but I have yet to see anyone *smacking* anyone have folks been taken to task? Yes Do the isms get called out? Yeap. If you are being harrassed or threatened on BFP you should really really have the Moderators take care of that for you

[Greyson]

Yes, I am posting this in hopes that all of us may pause and consider our agenda. BTW, I don't think "agenda" is necessarily a bad thing. I just want to know what is really motivating some of my words and actions.

Is my number one priority making this world and in that this community a better and safe place for women?

How do I realize, materialize this goal for women and others if they want help in doing so?

Am I overly invested in being right? Do I want to look the most intelligent? Do I want everyone to notice me? Maybe I do. I ask myself these questions because I am a member of this community that posts often and I do see myself as part of this community. In my mind that makes me responsible to assist in the well being of women, full realization of womens rights, respect in words and actions for women and for the education of "others."

How can I do this? First through my own actions, thoughts, and beliefs. Secondly, with some willingness to put my fear and ego aside. Third take action and try to treat others as I would like to be treated.

[Chancie]

I'm in love with a female identified butch, and we are, you know, a monogamous committed couple, but I have been mightily attracted to men who identify as FTM, and the very occasional cisman, but I'm not attracted to every female identified butch, or every man who identifies as FTM, and so on.

Seriously, the threads that make broad sweeping generalizations about groups bug me like crazy. But, I completely get that it's fun to flirt and let potential dates know they think queer femmes are hot stuff, for example.

I live in Western Mass, and in some communities there are huge numbers of lesbians. But, Pete and I perform our own sexy dance, perform in the RuPaul sense, I mean. When she helps me on with my coat, or holds the door for me, or fetches me a ginger ale, we appear to be enacting traditional gender roles.

The difference is, we have no desire to live in the 1950's; I am queer and Pete is a lesbian. We own who we are as people.

I understand that there are folks for whom this is the only place they can be seen for who they genuinely are. I'm thinking of 'the guys', who get to be 'guys', but I am also thinking of femmes who get to strut their stuff without being erased out in the world. But, I don't get to perform feminine the way feminine is portrayed in sitcoms, in the most grotesquely offensive way.

[DMW]

continued from my first post...or be themselves and be accepted for who they are...
it must be difficult to be a moderator here...somewhat like a police state...
I have been around biomales and been offended by what they have said about
women. And i do not remain silent...or let their deragatory or offhand sexist remarks ...go by...unanswered or unquestioned...or without defending that woman..even if i don't know her....or especially if the remark was about women in general. I don't even like revealing this much about myself period. So, i can understand the questions from this site.

That was odd...my computer froze...my memory was full i believe...had to clear out the cache etc.

Hominid, thank you for your post. I agree with you on the necessity to provide a generalized note stating, for example, (my post is only regarding how I feel) in order to avoid offending others. I get that for sure.
And the 50's ....i wasn't sure i was even going to go into trying to explain...i am low on energy also...however, i do like your explanation..it is quite clear. I believe that will help some people.
I appreciate that. For now i sign off.
Cheers

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by DMW

Humm...i am pondering on this now...all of the derails...including some of my own...wondering if i should put my feelings in here...this space where people are supposed to be able to say what attracts them to people. feeling that i would just like to have a space to breathe and be my asshole, masculine, wonderful self and not feel picked at...a feeling as if i were cariron for vulchers...nor, do i like feeling or seeing ...especially submissive femmes...


DMW are you implying that you need space to be all of the things above in a thread for people to come in and talk about what attracts them to FTM's?

Are you also implying that the people who have come in here are vultures?? and are you also implying that these vultures are hurting the submissive femme and keeping guys/FTM's from having a pace to be assholes, masculine?

Are you really implying folks have come in here and picked on the guys/FTM's and submissive femmes?

If so. could you point that out?


Thanks..





going through what must feel somewhat the same...( i am not quite sure) i believe buttons are being pushed when i voice out my honest genuine self (when and as if, i were talking with someone i adored or was being intimate with or a friend or brother that knows me well,but, i am here)...which leads me to suppose i should tamper myself...protect and guard myself with what i say or share...i have to ask myself..how are these people...to understand that...i am not a man that looks at a woman in a demeaning light...or see's her ...as if she belongs in a role that would make her feel badly about herself. If i were to say...damn...what you just said was so fing hot and i would like to bend *** **** *************...better censor myself here...because one...i don't share that well in a public space because...a.) it is sacred to me...how i talk to MY WOMAN...because, to me, she is sacred and so is that bond... and b.) now, i should tamper that down even more.....to darkness...because...i might offend someone for being me... not to mention,this is a space for those who are attracted to ftms to speak... not really me to reply to that... also, with what i say...may be perceived or thought of as "talking down to a woman or being sexist or...i don't know...wrong)...and it could make some women feel badly or trigger them...i suppose..i have to think more about this...i would like to start a new thread...but, i don't know how yet. I have grown tired of feeling like i have to apologize when i am just being myself. It is actually quite disturbing...the feeling like i have to defend myself or others just for being here.

I refuse to pick apart anyone else's previous posts because...i don't want them to feel picked on like carrion either...but, i won't lay down either and i hate to see...anyone lay down when they are just trying to express themselves...

DMW would you be so kind and clarify what you meant? Thank you

[Soon]

Originally Posted by DMW

feeling that i would just like to have a space to breathe and be my asshole, masculine, wonderful self and not feel picked at...

Seriously?

I think most of us get enough of this common attitude (both the entitlement and the poor me bits) from men in the real world.

[Mike]

waits for the answer

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Soon

Seriously?

I think most of us get enough of this common attitude (both the entitlement and the poor me bits) from men in the real world.

Originally Posted by Mike

waits for the answer

Please note that I am not trying to call you two out or say that I feel as though I'm being attacked. I am using these two posts as example of my thinking.


So cont......

After Snow, reasonably and justly asks for an explanation, we then get two more posts that could be read as snarky.


Why do I feel that they could be read as snarky??? Cause I remember back to when I was new to posting on these threads, YEARS ago. I was not as well versed on the language, the ideas, the issues surrounding certain parts of these debates as I am now. I didn't know how to express myself in ways that helped other people really hear what I was saying. (shit, still don't know how most of the time.) Because I didn't know HOW to say things in YOUR language, not the language I had known my all my life.

So, my point is, some people who come here really try to make a point and they just are inartful in the way they do it. Some are trying to learn and to those people it could be really scary. They want to interact with other people like them but there is a learning curve that we all have to go through and in that time, it's intimidating. I know I found the dash-site in 2002, didn't post one damn thing for two years cause I read and read and read and realized I had a lot of learning to do before I could express my feelings in an appropriate way. I just hadn't gained the correct language before I found that site. Some people aren't that way. They find us here and really jump in with both feet. But they are trying.


Some, are assholes. Jump at will in my opinion.


Why am I saying all this and quoting the above posts?? Because, *I* wish that when someone asks a person in a thread to please explain what they meant. And asks in a totally appropriate and reasonable way as Snow did.....Can we maybe wait and let the person respond before coming in with posts like the above?

The post that was made was called out by Snow, give the poster time to respond. PLEASE!!! Then if the poster proves that they are just not getting it, then ask some more.


Gahhh!! It's not up to me to tell anyone how to interact on these threads and I don't mean to come across that way. But this comes up all the time.

"I feel jumped on."

"I don't get that"

"But I'm getting attacked"

"Where"

"blah, blah, BLAH"

My feeling is, it's because people pile on. Not meaning to I'm sure. And not trying to be asshats about it. But, to people who are new/trying/not there yet/intimidated already, it can really feel like they are being bullied.

Can we just hear that message and maybe think about it???


Geez.....I hate pollyanaing out but I really understand both "sides" for lack of a better word, on this.

Sorry, derail, ignore as needed, jump on me as needed, just please think about it.


julie

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

Please note that I am not trying to call you two out or say that I feel as though I'm being attacked. I am using these two posts as example of my thinking.


So cont......

After Snow, reasonably and justly asks for an explanation, we then get two more posts that could be read as snarky.


Why do I feel that they could be read as snarky??? Cause I remember back to when I was new to posting on these threads, YEARS ago. I was not as well versed on the language, the ideas, the issues surrounding certain parts of these debates as I am now. I didn't know how to express myself in ways that helped other people really hear what I was saying. (shit, still don't know how most of the time.) Because I didn't know HOW to say things in YOUR language, not the language I had known my all my life.

So, my point is, some people who come here really try to make a point and they just are inartful in the way they do it. Some are trying to learn and to those people it could be really scary. They want to interact with other people like them but there is a learning curve that we all have to go through and in that time, it's intimidating. I know I found the dash-site in 2002, didn't post one damn thing for two years cause I read and read and read and realized I had a lot of learning to do before I could express my feelings in an appropriate way. I just hadn't gained the correct language before I found that site. Some people aren't that way. They find us here and really jump in with both feet. But they are trying.


Some, are assholes. Jump at will in my opinion.


Why am I saying all this and quoting the above posts?? Because, *I* wish that when someone asks a person in a thread to please explain what they meant. And asks in a totally appropriate and reasonable way as Snow did.....Can we maybe wait and let the person respond before coming in with posts like the above?

The post that was made was called out by Snow, give the poster time to respond. PLEASE!!! Then if the poster proves that they are just not getting it, then ask some more.


Gahhh!! It's not up to me to tell anyone how to interact on these threads and I don't mean to come across that way. But this comes up all the time.

"I feel jumped on."

"I don't get that"

"But I'm getting attacked"

"Where"

"blah, blah, BLAH"

My feeling is, it's because people pile on. Not meaning to I'm sure. And not trying to be asshats about it. But, to people who are new/trying/not there yet/intimidated already, it can really feel like they are being bullied.

Can we just hear that message and maybe think about it???


Geez.....I hate pollyanaing out but I really understand both "sides" for lack of a better word, on this.

Sorry, derail, ignore as needed, jump on me as needed, just please think about it.


julie

its ok if you are calling me out, but my respose to wait for the answer is becasue I read the thread and i could respond to some things but i saw where a question was asked or two and i wondered what the answer would be so i wait.That way i get to respond if i want after the answer. Its called trying to understand why and where someone is coming from instead of passing judgement.

thanks