Politics: The Dark Ages edition

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Another touch of the disgusting. Go to the 50 second mark in this video and see what the anti-healthcare folks do to a man with Parkinsons.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...l?video=949486

If I believed in hell, I would surely believe that these folks would burn there.

You know, it's interesting. One of the arguments that conservatives/libertarians/Tea Partiers make is that "government shouldn't be in the business of charity, only private individuals and churches should provide charity". The question I have asked and which I've never gotten a truly satisfactory answer to is this: "if you begrudge paying, say, 1% more a year in taxes then why should anyone believe that you'll *give* more money to charity?"

When the young man in the tie threw money at the man with Parkinson's as if he were not a human being and when we heard the people saying "no handouts here" we saw what a world where they held sway would look like. What charity there *was* would be given by the church which would only provide you food, what-have-you if you were willing to listen to a sermon (and accept their religion). Other than that people would be on their own.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

You know, it's interesting. One of the arguments that conservatives/libertarians/Tea Partiers make is that "government shouldn't be in the business of charity, only private individuals and churches should provide charity". The question I have asked and which I've never gotten a truly satisfactory answer to is this: "if you begrudge paying, say, 1% more a year in taxes then why should anyone believe that you'll *give* more money to charity?"
When the young man in the tie threw money at the man with Parkinson's as if he were not a human being and when we heard the people saying "no handouts here" we saw what a world where they held sway would look like. What charity there *was* would be given by the church which would only provide you food, what-have-you if you were willing to listen to a sermon (and accept their religion). Other than that people would be on their own.

Cheers
Aj

No, they won't because they don't have a clue as to the meaning of charity really.

Yes, the bastards throwing money at this man ought to burn in hell! Or, develop Parkinson's. Sure, they probably have good health-care, but, there is no cure and the meds for it arn't exactly a picnic as well as dying from it.

What I have learned through the years is that there is a very big difference between how the wealthy view charity in that is really is just a tax write-off for many. And a means to be adored. Hasn't a damn thing to due with charity as part of one's being or spirit of goodness. It is just another IRS line to place an amount in for a deduction.

I do know that this may not be true for contributions made by small business within their communities. But, usually in these situations, the owners are present at functions and events and remain involved. thinking about local businesses that contribute to youth sports firlds, etc. and go to the games, continue to help with uniforms and equipment and scholarships to families that can't pay for their kids to join or equipment costs. Can also be things like Shriner's hospitals.

To me, charity is mich more than throwing (no pun intended) money at something. It is an active process of giving your time as well.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by June

So here's the deal. I will bet you an unspecified amount of money that most of those Yahoos out there protesting the Healthcare bill, don't even fucking have it! Because unless you work for a major company, city, state, county, feds, the chances of you having access to REASONABLY priced healthcare is pretty slim.

What they appear to be doing in these "Rallies" is to express their outrage that "their" President is black under the guise of some of the most ridiculous and outlandish signage I have ever seen. They are grasping at metaphorical straws and outright lies told to them by their equally racist Senators in order to have something to bitch about that is not going to get their forehead painted with 3K's.

The problem here is not that they don't want Healthcare reform. It's that they don't want this President and so they are willing to screw everyone with their constant jabs and innuendo.

I know that most people are not stupid and mean, it just seems that way sometimes. AND BOTH the Republicans and Democrats are responsible for making that document so bloated with pork and special "deals", that it is not even readable.

SHAME ON ALL OF THEM!

This Quasi Rant has been brought to you by 4 cups of coffee and a Diet Coke (r)

thank you for this.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by The June on Caffeine

This Quasi Rant has been brought to you by 4 cups of coffee and a Diet Coke (r)

...and by some serious analysis. It shows.

I agree, btw, about these people's likely motivation. But I don't think we can afford to underestimate the contribution of health insurance industry lobbying to this "movement." After all, who stands to be reined in if it passes? There's a lot of profit to be lost... and so what better than a little classic misdirection, a little fanning of certain dying sparks into open flames?

After all, who would be able to point a finger at the health insurance lobby if this is a "grassroots movement," and yet how do we know who all the people were at the beginning of it? How do we know who the people are who champion it now, or more importantly, who they work for? There's no way to keep track of things like that.

[Jess]

I think it is important to remember that not everyone opposed to the way the healthcare bill is being worked is of the all evil ilk. Not all are ultra- conservative right wingers and certainly not all are plants from the insurance lobbys.

I am not entirely happy with this bill from what I have been able to read of it. It is a start that might eventually become what it should and could be, but as it stands there will still be huge numbers of folks without healthcare and a large number of folks who when "forced" to purchase healthcare will have to make the decision of food or my imposed healthcare plan. There are quite a few really not so great things about the bill as it is.

Seriously though, not all of the "tea baggers" are the bad guys.

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/20.../michael-moore

[Apocalipstic]

My vote is for full socialized medicine and I have really good insurance at the small company I work for.

I agree that many of the people at these rallys probably do not have insurance and are being led to vote against their own self interests by racism or by being convinced that if there is socialized healthcare, then sex changes will be free and gays will be able to marry.

I think it is likely that this person is using the word "demon" as a racist code word.

[apretty]

medicare, the kind that old teabaggers utilize, is government subsidized health care, i don't get why i have to pay for these old, hateful racists to have access to affordable health care. they're milking the system, i'm sick of these anchor-seniors!

[Queerasfck]

Teabaggers, they think elitist means "someone who reads. It's a cult not a movement", via Bill Maher. There's a youtube video out there somewhere...funny stuff.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by apretty

medicare, the kind that old teabaggers utilize, is government subsidized health care, i don't get why i have to pay for these old, hateful racists to have access to affordable health care. they're milking the system, i'm sick of these anchor-seniors!

It rips me out of the frame! Agreed!

They have socialized insurance. Growwwl.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by June

I don't think ALL Tea Baggers are evil, racist pricks. Just most of them.

And, I was really clear that both sides of the aisle are culpable for this Healthcare cluster fuck.

And, I work for a 12 year old, 15 employee company that cannot afford to offer healthcare to any of us. I have decent, affordable healthcare because my partner works for the County and we are "lucky" enough to have partner benefits here.

I think I'm gonna go start a poll. Stay tuned.

I have a difficult time thinking all the Baggers are not evil.

I saw what they discussed when they were here in Nashville for their convention. I do not see anything that proved to me they cared about their fellow humans....starting with their keynote speaker.

Maybe just the mean ones get on the news?

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I have a difficult time thinking all the Baggers are not evil.

So do I.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...th-parkinsons/

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Bit

After all, who would be able to point a finger at the health insurance lobby if this is a "grassroots movement," and yet how do we know who all the people were at the beginning of it? How do we know who the people are who champion it now, or more importantly, who they work for? There's no way to keep track of things like that.

Rachel Maddow has been doing a great job of following the money trail this past year and can track just about all of these shenanigans back to their sources.

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I think it is likely that this person is using the word "demon" as a racist code word.

I believe that he got it from yesterday's news buzz phrase "deem and pass". The funny part is, after all the filibustering, when word got out that Senate Dems were threatening to use deem and pass, the Repugs raced to the TV cameras and started demanding an up or down vote!! Geez, peeps, the rest of the country has been wanting up or down votes in the Senate since 1/21/2009!!!!!!

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I have a difficult time thinking all the Baggers are not evil.

Right there with you.

[MsDemeanor]

Once again, Alan Grayson has come up with the simple and practical solution. HR 4789, the Medicare You Can Buy In To Act. Basically, anyone can sign up for Medicare and the rate would be the average cost for people in that age group. The entire bill is just a few pages long, and it has accumulated 50 co-sponsors in just 48 hours. My Congresswoman has already signed on. Has yours? (I heart Lynn Woolsey).


Alan Grayson 2012!!!!

[Jess]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I have a difficult time thinking all the Baggers are not evil.

I saw what they discussed when they were here in Nashville for their convention. I do not see anything that proved to me they cared about their fellow humans....starting with their keynote speaker.

Maybe just the mean ones get on the news?

I watched the same video posted earlier and yes, the yuppie throwing money was an ass. The last woman who spoke however, seemed quite rational, reasonable and not really evil. Evil is a pretty harsh view. Kinda like "demonic".

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by June

So here's the deal. I will bet you an unspecified amount of money that most of those Yahoos out there protesting the Healthcare bill, don't even fucking have it! Because unless you work for a major company, city, state, county, feds, the chances of you having access to REASONABLY priced healthcare is pretty slim.

What they appear to be doing in these "Rallies" is to express their outrage that "their" President is black under the guise of some of the most ridiculous and outlandish signage I have ever seen. They are grasping at metaphorical straws and outright lies told to them by their equally racist Senators in order to have something to bitch about that is not going to get their forehead painted with 3K's.

The problem here is not that they don't want Healthcare reform. It's that they don't want this President and so they are willing to screw everyone with their constant jabs and innuendo.

I know that most people are not stupid and mean, it just seems that way sometimes. AND BOTH the Republicans and Democrats are responsible for making that document so bloated with pork and special "deals", that it is not even readable. SHAME ON ALL OF THEM!

This Quasi Rant has been brought to you by 4 cups of coffee and a Diet Coke (r)

ROLF, your rant speaks volumes!

The racism displayed at these rallies is pretty obvious. And, although, I see the mega-bucks it is my money syndrome, I do see your point about some attending these discusting events as not having access to quality healthcare.

As the bill appears to stand, I have a lot of problems with it. There is a lot of pork and bullshit in it. And the idea of just passing it for a Dem win makes me crazy. I keep trying to assess what is actually in it that will help me and many others out. It is a mess!!

In light of what you are saying I have been agonizing over a school bond that is going to be on my ballot here. Frankly, as a someone that has lost 2/3rds of my income in the last 2 years, having my property tax increase is not something I want. Sure, it will be only about $30, but this is on top of about 6years of yearly increases of $30-$50 which is reflected on my montly house payment. Additionally, I bought my home post-Prop 13 in CA and pay about 5 times tyhe property taxes that people that bought pre-Prop 13 do. And hell, my home value has decreased over 25%!

I have always supported school bonds and am a former public school teacher. Also someone that was educated within the public school system, including a community college along the way. Same for my kid. I want more money for schools! Yet, I have to say, this will make a difference to me as a retired person that also has high health-care costs as well as health-care insurance that sux! I can't drop it for another due to pre-existing conditions and I am too young for MediCare or to draw Social Security. My medical conditions are disabling.

No, I don't believe that every person at these rallies are rich or represent corporate interests. Oh yeah, many are racists!