Butch Attire & Fashion

[Duchess]

Casual or formal, there's nothing sexier than a well groomed Butch!!!!

[Kelt]

This speaks a bit to something I posted a couple of weeks ago.

I know I have been posting about my own interpretation of butch attire, but one thing I'd like to address is fit.

It can be hard to find the things that we want, depending on what we want that actually fits. My own preference is for menswear or what approximates that look to me. I have a bio-female body, sometimes this can pose a problem. I also trend (now a days) on the just one size below what is commonly available in most mens departments. Frequently, this means calling in my tailor to the rescue. Sometimes I just want to find things without going through that extra step, especially if it is for casual everyday wear.

I have found something that helps me is to look at all of the areas and not get hung up on what department it comes from. Due to age and gravity, typically mens clothes are cut closer to what I need, this was not always the case and so today I still try to have an open mind. Case in point, I put a pic of myself here, I cannot say how long it will be there, but it is now.

I this photo I am wearing mens jeans from costco $12, button down shirt from the boys (it fits) school uniform section of a discount store $10, a jacket I found in the women's section of a thrift store $3 and indeed the label says 'LL Bean women'. It is comfy like a hoody or something but I like it better, it has some fun belting and such on the back.

My point being that for casual stuff it is possible to inexpensively put together stuff that fits pretty well and looks better (on me) than sweats. Some can pull that off as athletic, I'm not one of them. By being willing to shop mens, women's, children's, discount and thrift stores. It doesn't have to take a lot of resources or time, just keeping my eyes open.

My thoughts as I was heading out to the movies the other day, (now if I was with someone I would have spiffed up, but I was comfortable)

[princessbelle]

I'm still learning how to buy clothes for my butch. I went to buy some summer clothes for her back in May. Since she buys her clothes in the men's department, i thought well, that's easy. Heck i raised two boys so i thought i knew how to buy "men's" clothes.

But, because she likes those long shorts and i wasn't quite sure about sizes and styles, what i got originally didn't work.

The shorts i got were too big and too baggy and came down way past her knees, actually just above her ankles, and the shirt was stripped and way too long and came down almost to her knees as well. OMG she looked like a 7 year old school boy. It was funny and cute as hell, but didn't work. She's probably gonna kill me for typing about this.

I totally failed my first try. I did take them back. Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works.

I'm getting better but it is truly a learning experience.

Edit: Just realized this is the butch zone. Pardon me if i am intruding. I suppose the name should have given me a head's up. But, i'm really tired, so forgive me.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I'm still learning how to buy clothes for my butch. I went to buy some summer clothes for her back in May. Since she buys her clothes in the men's department, i thought well, that's easy. Heck i raised two boys so i thought i knew how to buy "men's" clothes.

But, because she likes those long shorts and i wasn't quite sure about sizes and styles, what i got originally didn't work.

The shorts i got were too big and too baggy and came down way past her knees, actually just above her ankles, and the shirt was stripped and way too long and came down almost to her knees as well. OMG she looked like a 7 year old school boy. It was funny and cute as hell, but didn't work. She's probably gonna kill me for typing about this.

I totally failed my first try. I did take them back. Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works.

I'm getting better but it is truly a learning experience.

Edit: Just realized this is the butch zone. Pardon me if i am intruding. I suppose the name should have given me a head's up. But, i'm really tired, so forgive me.

Until you get the hang of it and can eyeball things better, put a comfy pair of Bully's shorts on. Shirt too. See how they fit YOU and then, when you go shopping, if you see something you really like, if nothing else you can try it on and see how it hangs in comparison to how her current comfy clothes hang on you. It's like warming up the car for her, but with panties involved!

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Until you get the hang of it and can eyeball things better, put a comfy pair of Bully's shorts on. Shirt too. See how they fit YOU and then, when you go shopping, if you see something you really like, if nothing else you can try it on and see how it hangs in comparison to how her current comfy clothes hang on you. It's like warming up the car for her, but with panties involved!

Ohhhhhhhh what a good idea. I'm thinking that may be fun too. While i'm at it i may even practice that swagger. I'm thinking it is all in the clothes.

But, she don't wear panties silly!!!!!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Ohhhhhhhh what a good idea. I'm thinking that may be fun too.

But, she don't wear panties silly!!!!!

Not panties for HER, goofball. YOUR panties. In HER clothes. Hotness right there.

See, this is how it goes:

Bully, I got something for you today.

Yeah? What is it, beautiful love of my life?

I got you a couple things that should fit marvelously. What do you think?

<--as you wander aimlessly in with her outfit on you

This works especially best if it's more formal attire and there's a tie involved.

Just sayin'.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I'm still learning how to buy clothes for my butch. I went to buy some summer clothes for her back in May. Since she buys her clothes in the men's department, i thought well, that's easy. Heck i raised two boys so i thought i knew how to buy "men's" clothes.

But, because she likes those long shorts and i wasn't quite sure about sizes and styles, what i got originally didn't work.

The shorts i got were too big and too baggy and came down way past her knees, actually just above her ankles, and the shirt was stripped and way too long and came down almost to her knees as well. OMG she looked like a 7 year old school boy. It was funny and cute as hell, but didn't work. She's probably gonna kill me for typing about this.

I totally failed my first try. I did take them back. Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works.

I'm getting better but it is truly a learning experience.

This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not panties for HER, goofball. YOUR panties. In HER clothes. Hotness right there.

See, this is how it goes:

Bully, I got something for you today.

Yeah? What is it, beautiful love of my life?

I got you a couple things that should fit marvelously. What do you think?

<--as you wander aimlessly in with her outfit on you

This works especially best if it's more formal attire and there's a tie involved.

Just sayin'.

No wonder i adore you!!! Works even better with one of her white dress shirts and no bi-panty involvement.

Originally Posted by Kelt

This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

Wonderful!!!!! I look forward to seeing it!!!!

I am getting way better. I know to look for shorter shirts, shorter shorts, even though they are long when she wears them. No stripes. And the best shirts i've found are polo ...those rock!!!! And are hot!!!!

Did i mention they are hot?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

No wonder i adore you!!! Works even better with one of her white dress shirts and no bi-panty involvement.

Now you're cookin'!

[clay]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

No wonder i adore you!!! Works even better with one of her white dress shirts and no bi-panty involvement.



Wonderful!!!!! I look forward to seeing it!!!!

I am getting way better. I know to look for shorter shirts, shorter shorts, even though they are long when she wears them. No stripes. And the best shirts i've found are polo ...those rock!!!! And are hot!!!!

Did i mention they are hot?

hey belle..I love Polo shirts..and have several in solid colors...NO stripes for me either. I pair mine with either jeans (black or blue) and cargo shorts. I like mine in shorter length as well. I am 5'9" and I do not like them to be mid calf..lol
I LURVE this thread.....thanks to all of you..I lurk here..often...

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Kelt

This is sooo true. Stay tuned, I'm going to put together something on 'reconnaissance' shopping for butches. Ironically the way I do it was an offshoot of watching my ex from several years ago shop for her young son.

Since gender specific dressing rooms can be as much fun for a lot of butches as the restroom experience, I don't go there unless it's a pretty sure bet that most of what I try on is going to work. Bona fide system, I won't spoil the surprise just yet, (there will be pictures) but it works well for butches AND those who shop for them, just in time for the holidays.

Looking forward to it...

[Kelt]

I would say this is shopping for butches, but the truth is it will work for anyone.

The idea mentioned earlier of wearing someone else's clothes and then trying to replicate the feel of them is pretty good, but I think we can get it even closer.

What I have found works well (and quickly) for me is to measure it out ahead of time. Sizes on labels vary widely and the sad truth is that the more expensive the garment the more likely it is to show a 'vanity' size on the label.

I take an item that I know fits me, or whoever you are shopping for, very well and measure the heck out of it in the places that matter. I measure it as I would find it on the hanger or laid out, this is step one to figure out whether or not it is worth trying on. For more fitted items, I highly recommend going through the hassle of trying on because it is less hassle than returning it later if there is something not quite exactly the way you want it. For more casual maybe less form fitting or made of more relaxed fabrics, this may be enough. Try it yourself and find out. If you are shopping for someone else, I would say get the things that are a little less particular or plan for the possibility of a little tweak at the tailor, which may be needed anyway.

Take down these measurements:

Shirts:

Neck. Really critical if it is to be worn with a tie, otherwise up to 1 inch extra, closer is better for overall hang. Take this measurement with it buttoned all the way up. Applies to other necks as well, crew, vee, polo, etc.

Shoulder seam to seam, the more accurate this is the better the whole thing will look with the understanding that you are working with a known good fit item otherwise things like different sizes of chests and hips can change all that.

Across the bottom of the shirt where the hips will hit. This depends on if it will be worn out or tucked in. If out, it needs to be larger, if tucked you can get away with some spread at the bottom because it will be tucked in.

Sleeve, 4 different measurements here. From shoulder seam to end of cuff, this is a really fast elimination tool if you are looking hanging shirts, if there is no shoulder seam, go with the traditional center of neck to end of cuff, still quick.

For short sleeves, measure that too for a couple of reasons. If you are in a mens section usually they are made for someone generally taller most bio females so the sleeves are longer. If it is a sewn end at the sleeve, it can be hemmed shorter. If you are like me and don't really like showing off your upper arms too much you want to make sure they are long enough, you can't lengthen them. When I was heavier than I am now I also wanted to measure the width of the bottom of the sleeve so that it would not bind, especially on polos, if it is an issue look for sleeves that are not banded.

Overall length, from the base of the neck to the very bottom.

Especially important on things like polo shirts, these can be way too long in mens, it might work better to try women's (it's basically the same thing, although the color choices are different) or, for myself with knit tops I have good luck in the boys area, the overall length and sleeve length work well for my type. And a heck of a lot cheaper too!

I know these lists seem onerous from the outside, but you only have to do it once or whenever you have a size change. It really narrows things down quickly to the most likely candidates.

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<edited by Tech Admin at user request>

Okay, onto pants:

Again, quick on the hanger or table stuff here

Inseam, if it says 32 it probably is. OR, your out thrifting or going vintage and it shrank so now it is really 29 (seriously, Levis 501's shrink 3 inches in length). Think about this when buying new too, will it shrink? What is the real inseam you want? On that note, hemming is a really inexpensive alteration ($12-$14) if you just found some really great wool trousers for $10 in a vintage shop that would be $100 new somewhere.

Rise, how far from the crotch to the waistband? You will probably have 3 different choices, dress pants and trousers, jeans, and shorts or other casual wear.

Waist, side to side. This will be affected by rise, the lower the waist, (shorter rise) on bio women that usually translates into a wider waist size.

Hip, side to side. I usually find the lower pocket attachment point and measure there. If it is too snug there the pocket will usually gap some which means that on dress pants it will show the pocket lining. Big no.

Special note on shorts, be sure to measure the inseam on these too, as with shirt sleeves, if in a mens department they are made for usually taller people. If they are fairly plain they can be hemmed, no big deal. If they are cargo shorts or have other embellishments, deal breaker. Here is a tip I discovered by accident. For cargo shorts with a shorter inseam try marine clothes. No kidding, I guess the yachting set likes their shorts about three inches shorter. They are the perfect length for me, try Marine West or OP.

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<edited by Tech Admin at user request>

So, a couple of other things I do to minimize the pain. Have this list of measurements in your wallet or phone and keep an tape measure in the car. I also have my tailors price list with me. I took a picture of it and keep it in my phone.


<edited by Tech Admin at user request>

This way, when I am out if I spot a really good deal on something I need (especially thrifting) I can decide if it is still a great deal after I have paid for whatever tweak it needs to make it just right, sleeve shortening on long sleeves that are split is more than short sleeves, maybe you need a little more room at the bottom of a shirt that is going to be tucked in, add a gusset? If you have the price list handy you can see what the total cost will really be. I have damn near everything tweaked a little here or there, but still save a ton of money this way.

Also, go ahead and keep a list of what you need in your wallet or phone. When you are looking in your closet you may think ‘I could really use a dark blue button down’ but when you are in a shop with someone or just passing by it is easy to forget what is really going to fill in the gaps in the wardrobe vs what looks cool right now. I usually have a list of three or four things on hand and it helps me remember to go ahead and look for that thing, both filling the spots and not wasting money on yet another thing that doesn’t go with anything else.

I don’t really care for shopping and this helps take the sting out by getting me real tangible results when I do go. Now that it is written out, it looks like a lot of trouble to go to, it isn’t, it is actually easier. If you are shopping for someone else you will have a much better chance of getting something that will fit right and be really appreciated by the person you are doing it for.

So, fill in the blanks. Tell me your tips and tricks. I’ve probably forgotten a few things and will come back when I remember.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Size is very important and style is HUGE with the results of how it looks on a butch. Not just anything works

I agree. But, I think that it is less about a person being "butch" and more of a body type. Bio females tend to have various body shapes. Some have curves, while some don't. Men typically don't, but not all butches are shaped like men (minimal hips). I would suggest that when one shops in the men's department for bio females, that their body shape is taken into account, as not just any style will work for every female.

[Gemme]

Kelt, those tips are really good and you've obviously put a lot of thought into it. The set up for the different styles of shirts, etc would be a pain (as you mentioned) but having the list in the car or purse would be handy because you never know when you'll find something for someone but wouldn't know if it would fit.

That being said, I'll stick with my old fashioned eyeball and/or how does it fit me? methods because then that means I get to wear my honey's clothes for a "real" reason aka NOT "I like it and I'm stealing it".

[dykeumentary]

Thanks Kelt, for taking the time to write that out. It's really great when people wear clothes that fit well.

[Sun]

This company will custom tailor a suit, shirt, slacks, to your specifications.

They also have a fabric sample kit that you can order. Similar to Brooks Brothers quality but without the similar price tag.

Indochino

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Thanks Kelt, for taking the time to write that out. It's really great when people wear clothes that fit well.

Yes, nothing bothers more than when the shoulder seams do not sit on the top of the shoulder and instead lands past the top of the shoulder moving down the arm. For some reason people never pay attention to this. My clothing pet peeve and something I watch for when buying clothes.

As Gemme said, I am pretty good at holding up a garment to see whether it will "hang right" (as I tend to describe it for some reason). I can fortunately buy off the rack pretty damn easily and don't have to get anything tailored.

"Hanging right" relates to how the neck of the shirt looks, as it can tell me how the entire shirt will look on my frame. If the neck appears to look ok (not too large on both casual and ress shirts), I will typically try the shirt on, just to make sure that it fits across my chest in the way that I deem flattering (i.e. it is not tight against my chest/my chest is not very visible).

Calvin Klein is where I tend to go for all my dress/work clothes. The shirts fit good for my neck, shoulder seam, and arm length. There is a Calvin Klein outlet near the beach where we frequent in the summer, so I just shop there. I also still have about 7 dress shirts that are 8 years old that still looks great from Express. They are perfect in arm length, also.

In terms of dress pants, I can buy right off the rack as well, due to having a more typical male shape. Of course, some styles of dress pants fit better than others, however.

When it comes to casual clothes, I buy various brands. Jeans, I have no problem as long as I get the right style. For cargo shorts, it seems as though they are now making them longer. However, I have found at some places (Old Navy, specifically), you have a choice of longer or shorter cargo shorts. I get the shorter because the longer are too long (and look dumb)since I am only 5'8". I can see how it would be even harder for shorter females who wear men's shorts. I tend to choose short length based on where it falls against my leg...there is a certain range that I believe is most attractive and anything below that just looks dumb/unattractive on me.

No doubt a tuck here and there by a tailor could improve the fit of my clothes, but honestly, that is too much hassle for me for everyday wear. For casual clothing I wouldn't even consider it...I would just pass on the item!

One more thing...dressing rooms...fortunately for the places I buy both my dress and casual clothes (outlets), they have gender neutral dressing rooms. If I was in a regular department store, I would probably find myself bringing a lot more stuff home to try!

Nice discussion! Thanks for the information Kelt.