Is there a space for women like me?

[Nat]

this is one of those threads where I keep typing and back-spacing.

I'll try to stop back-spacing now and try to string a few thoughts/feelings together.

My sweetheart believed during her early twenties that she would transition one day. When we met, she said that she'd decided against doing so.

I keep in the back of my mind that it's possible one day she will change her mind. And if that happens, I already know it will break my heart in little ways. Even if I liked every change that happened, there'd be a part of me that would need to mourn those changes too.

I would miss the her that she is to me. I would miss the us that we have. I would miss the person I met and fell in love with. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love the he that emerged or enjoy the us that we would have, but it would be a different fit.

If it made her happier, if it felt right to her, then I would feel it was right and I would be happy *for* her (him at that point), but I'm not so sure i'd be so happy *for* me. I think a lot of that would have to do with how things fell out.

I wouldn't want to lose what small visibility I have as a femme. I wouldn't want my identity as a lesbian to be questioned or threatened. I wouldn't want to spend years relegating myself to gender-cheerleader while watching my own self and identity fade into the wallpaper while *his* emerged. I wouldn't want to lose the sense of community I have with other lesbians. Or the sense of comradery I feel being with another woman. I wouldn't want to live stealth or lie or sublimate myself or my identity so another person could be comfortable in his. I wouldn't want to feel like I had to stay silent or should feel ashamed if I felt angry or guilty or sad over any of the very many things that would change if she transitioned.

There's an ache in me - knowing that other femmes here and among us may be struggling with their heartaches, struggles, fears, grief in secret and alone because being open about it would seem like a betrayal to transitioning partners or even to the community.

There has to be a place for us femmes and enough room for us to be real about things. We are expected to accept, to nurture, to support, to encourage and never to fear or doubt or be confused or discourage or feel angry about whatever gender experiences or feelings or decisions our partners go through (or don't go through). How much of this we place on ourselves or our femme sisters and how much of this is placed on us from outside of this space - I'm not sure.

We are all transforming in one way or another as human beings. It may not always be as dramatic as it can seem when a person transitions from one sex to another. I would hate to see a trend of femme lives stunted while years are spent being rocks for our partners and never getting to find our own wings and pursue our own dreams.

If my love and my life go down the path one day of going through this type of transition, I want to make sure I'm a rock for myself too and that I don't clip my own wings or silence my own voice. If my life one day takes this turn in the road, there will be joy and pain involved. I'm glad that day is not today. I hope if that day comes that I will still have my community, regardless of whether my thoughts and feelings line up correctly with what I *should* think or feel about it.

Anyway, I probably should have employed my backspace more here, but there it is.

I've dated people of various gender identities and stages and definitions of transition, but I personally have never seen a person through a transition. Since I know my attractions, I've known for a long time that I could easily find myself in this position in my life. I learned during my exploratory years that the look, the feel, the chemistry of attraction, the preferences in and out of the bedroom - none of that is a guarantee that a person will or won't identify a certain way or possibly transition - or stop transitioning - or any of that.

So I've become more clear with my own boundaries. I'm never going stealth. I'm never giving up my community. I identify as a lesbian. I have a big mouth. I can be no more of a rock for you than I am for myself. And sometimes I need a rock too. I am happy to watch you stretch your wings and fly, but I want to fly too, to grow too and not just to grow around you. I will accept and encourage and support all I can, but I need support and acceptance and encouragement too. And not just around a partner's transition but about my own finite life and its transformations independent of whom I'm with.

[julieisafemme]

I came out 5 years ago. I left my spouse, told my family and friends and started a new life as a lesbian. I met Greyson and was not looking for a transman or a butch. I just went to a dance. I think the thing that has worked for us is that we have both transitioned together. A teenaged lesbian met a teenaged transmasculine butch! We went through our adolescence together.

I had no anxiety about partnering with a transman because I was not experienced in the butch/femme, lesbian world. I learned pretty quickly that partnering with a transman made me and my relationship different and suspect to many people, queer and straight. In the straight community I was a part of Greyson's gender identity was very difficult to understand. That was surprising to me. It was also surprising to me that in the lesbian community I was not embraced by all. I had the very naive idea that all queer people loved each other.

I am a lesbian femme. I don't feel the need to change my identity. Queer is also a good descriptor for me because that makes it easier for some to understand my relationship.

We don't hang out in exclusively trans or lesbian spaces. We like to and feel most comfortable in queer spaces.

I completely support and understand that some femmes are not interested in partnering with transmen. I don't think they are transphobic. It does hurt when people say "eww" or transmen are this or that. It is not my experience. My partner lived for 30 years as a butch before he decided to transition. He is still a butch. That is his gender and that did not change during his transition.

I do feel invisible as a lesbian. That was hard for a long time. Right now I don't really think too much about it. We are a queer couple and are not stealth. I don't think I could do that. I won't do that.

Sometimes I worry that the "loving a transman isn't easy" puts a huge burden on partners. Loving is hard period! Would my life be any easier if I were partnered with a butch woman? I am partnered with my partner and I love him. It isn't always easy but it isn't always hard either.

There is a space for us. For those who decide that they cannot partner with a transman and those who do.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Nat

We are all transforming in one way or another as human beings. It may not always be as dramatic as it can seem when a person transitions from one sex to another.

So I've become more clear with my own boundaries. I'm never going stealth. I'm never giving up my community.

First point, so true!

Second point, absolutely. And that was the problem with my first relationship with an FTM. He wanted nothing to do with any kind of non-straight community.

I was still new to this community and to the 'rules' of engagement between sexes, genders, sexualities, sensualities, presentations, et cetera and I didn't have firm boundaries in place and through the process of making him feel better, I made myself feel worse. I felt less than then when I began that relationship and it took me a while to find my way back to me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Would my life be any easier if I were partnered with a butch woman?

Until recently I can and could say that for me no. I've had/have to deal with the same kind of sexist mysiginistic bull shit from butch to Femme to FTM. Being a Femme who's 100% in the Lead is unpopular in the dating pool outside of kink.


It's tiring

[iamkeri1]

I want to apologise in advance if I am doing this wrong, I'm not really sure what cross posting is, so I don't know if that is what I am doing. I do want to say to you that I am in awe of those of you who have not lost contact with the femme part of yourselves, who refuse to sublimate or let others sublimate your needs completely to those of your loved on who is/has/wants to transition.

I have told my story in other threads, and maybe someday I will copy some of it to this thread. For today I just wantto send you my love. i can tell you are hurting. I been though much of that kind of hurting my self, and sometimes I still do hurt. Love to you my femme sisters (and daughters.) I'm proud of you.
Smooches,
Keri

[Words]

I think that one of the hardest things I've had to deal with whilst Blue has been making the transition from a third gendered/transgendered female looking woman to a third gendered/transgendered male looking woman (and yes, Hy still considers Hymself a woman and always, I believe, will), is other people's perception of Blue and, by default, other people's perception of me. Nine times out of ten people W/we don't know will assume that Blue is a straight guy and that I'm Hys straight wife. Which, to me, is understandable but annoying. Worse than that though, people who do know U/us - including queers - assume that deep down, Blue really wants to be a guy and that I, therefore, must really want to be with a guy or a 'real' FtM. Which puts me in the position of either having to explain - again -what transgendered/third gendered is and why, exactly, Blue wanted to 'masculinize', or alternatively, to simply keep quiet and allow them to carry on assuming, neither of which make me happy.

I really wish there was greater awareness, including amongst the queer community, with regard to the fact that not everyone who goes on T/has their breasts removed and so on and so forth wants to be a male or already considers themself a male albeit one trapped inside a female body. Blue is proud to be butch. Hy is proud to be transgendered. Hy is proud to be a masculine, male looking third gendered/transgendered woman. I just wish others would accept that for what it is, i.e., the absolute truth.

Words

[Kätzchen]

I want to say that I share in the sentiment expressed by Lady_Snow that I have found too, over the years, that Femme-led relationships are not always met with the approval of what appears to be an ongoing general consensus expressed by mainstream society or even within our own small universe of butches and femmes.

It's even smaller, for me, because of the way that I am.

I imagine the reason why I have been single for such a long time is that in my world, I live and abide as if there is no competition to lead or be led and I guess I could say that the way I live would probably be more in alignment with what some scientists believe to be a "competition-free" way of life.

I don't know how to distill my thoughts simply; but if I were to try to describe or illustrate what a competition-free environment would be, a person might find that when I say that I stand on my own and that the other party gets to stand on their own - it means that we know ourselves in unique ways that allow us to thrive in adverse conditions, yet have the capacity to nurture one another and be there for each other and pleasure each other with our own unique way of caring for each other, when there seems to be no reasonable or rational explanation for how we're able to do such a thing.

I lack a better way to share, in explanatory ways, at the moment. But the one thing I relish about a competition-free way of life is that I know I possess a very unique cache of skill (trained or untrained capacities), which allows me to thrive in ways where only I am the best evaluator of my own ability to evolve under any one kind or type of condition I face at any given moment in life. I wish I knew how to better say what is on my mind about things of this nature, but I feel that I possess a mixture of traits or gifts that are unique to me. And, even on my worst day or the best day or seemingly a mundane day in my life, I know that surely I am not alone.

Thank You Lady_Snow for the opportunity to share in this particular forum discussion and for constraining participation to those of us who identify as Femme.