Flirting in a Non-GLBT Space

The_Lady_Snow · 11-09-2012, 05:00 PM

I'm forward, if I get turned down, oh well. At least I know.

homoe · 11-09-2012, 05:08 PM

Nothing ventured nothing gained ~

pinkgeek · 11-09-2012, 05:23 PM

Just flirt. I don't change my tactic from gay bar to Starbucks. Someone being straight or saying no doesn't / hasn't ever phased me.

Being femme (for me) is a fierce endeavor and that includes getting my flirt on where and when I want to.

CherylNYC · 11-09-2012, 05:27 PM

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

girl_dee · 11-09-2012, 06:10 PM

as i've said, a 2x4 in your purse works well!

ArkansasPiscesGrrl · 11-09-2012, 06:45 PM

When I moved up here to Arkansas from FL, it was often really difficult for me to find others that I thought MIGHT be LBGT. Gay-dar was not working for me, and I had been surprised (and subsequently embarrassed) by assuming that the butch looking woman was gay, when in fact she was more of a country-small-town woman. Big difference from the women I had been used to in FL! Combine that with my own femme invisibility and I just about gave up!

Then I saw a couple of women at the grocery store, adn do admit to following them with my own shopping cart. (I know, kinda creepy, right?) Trying to get their attention, smiling, then saying something like "I just moved here to AR, and it is SO nice to see other family here!". Or the usual "Do I know you? You both look so familiar to me! Umm, would you happen to be family?"

I ended up meeting my fiance in an online service. She and I were both JUST looking for friends. hehehe.

Girl_On_Fire · 11-09-2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

Nat · 11-09-2012, 08:41 PM

Flirting in non-GLBT space is definitely a different ballgame than in glbt space. I don't know if what I do is actually flirtation, but I definitely convey my appreciation in what I hope is a harmless way. I don't think I knew how to flirt with butches when I first came out - but over time it's become second-nature to give that look of acknowledgement/appreciation/knowing that tends to cause a corresponding blush or shy smile or stammer enough times for me to know that the message is conveyed. And occasionally a free coffee.

My intention is more of an "I see you" in an appreciative way than anything more aggressive - because I don't want to unintentionally communicate availability.

When I was single and found somebody attractive, it usually worked pretty well to be friendly and direct. A casual compliment works well if the person is available and interested. Many people will open up if you ask a few questions that aren't too invasive but require an opinion or history of some sort. I think the secret to successful flirting is not to be too invested in the results.

Soft*Silver · 11-09-2012, 09:16 PM

I say we femmes need a secret sign to signal butches out there when we arent in a LGBT space...like, putting a thumb on our chin when they look at us...which would mean YES I AM FAMILY!

easygoingfemme · 11-09-2012, 09:31 PM

I think my double take and jaw drop paired with a goofy smile lets them know but...

If that doesn't work- some solid eye contact with a more pleasant smile and some easy conversation...

If that doesn't work than I assume they don't think I'm as hot as I think they are and I can move on.

Dude · 11-11-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheryl NYC

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

excuse me
if I may invade the femme zone briefly
only to say this is the most insightful post describing
the butch experience that I have ever read
And it came from a femme.

thank you

Venus007 · 11-12-2012, 04:05 AM

I work the fundamentals of flirting
Smile
Eye contact
Arrange for a touch, shaking hands, hand on the arm etc
then move in for the chatting and flirting while working the fundamentals.
I have found a little bit of ribbing and teasing goes well to establish rapport
I get turned down sometimes, I get surprised straight women occasionally but usually I get at least a fun chat and a if I am lucky a phone number or we leave together

Ginger · 11-12-2012, 06:04 AM

When I see a butch woman in a public space, I catch her eye and smile. I'm not flirting (but it's okay if she thinks that). It's just a solidarity thing.

easygoingfemme · 11-12-2012, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandScout

When I see a butch woman in a public space, I catch her eye and smile. I'm not flirting (but it's okay if she thinks that). It's just a solidarity thing.

Yes to that a hundred times.

Play · 02-09-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space.

When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding.

Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance.

This really hit home with me. I think I am fairly friendly when spoken to, but
because I present as masculine I don't engage in small talk unless someone
else initiates the conversation. I don't spend a lot of time in bars or clubs so
most of my experiences are out in the world where I have no clue about sexual
orientation. When a woman smiles or says "Hi" to me, I just assume they think
they know me or are generally friendly. Sometimes, if I am out with a friend or
my girl they will say something like "She looked you up and down so she was
definitely flirting with you." I tend to think that femmes that are in a public
setting that smile and wink or whatever the acknowledgment, is just saying
I recognize you are butch. This is always welcomed. I think the most common
form of "family" recognition is the prolonged eye contact. Even if no words are
exchanged it is just a nod to like people. Sadly, there are many spaces where
it is not safe to flirt, or even strike up a conversation because of backlash from
co-workers, family members or whomever.

So femmes, if you see a butch out there in the big bad world for all to see and
judge, give them a smile, a wink, a "Hi there" or any other acknowlegement.

It will make their day!

11-09-2012, 05:00 PM	#1
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,080 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	Forward On! I'm forward, if I get turned down, oh well. At least I know. __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

11-09-2012, 05:23 PM	#3
pinkgeek Member How Do You Identify?: that grrl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, grrl, piranha, monkey Relationship Status: captured.... Join Date: May 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 377 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,054 Thanked 1,456 Times in 311 Posts Rep Power: 13998707	Just flirt.. Just flirt. I don't change my tactic from gay bar to Starbucks. Someone being straight or saying no doesn't / hasn't ever phased me. Being femme (for me) is a fierce endeavor and that includes getting my flirt on where and when I want to. __________________ ------------------------------------ ~pink "I‘m heir to madness. Vessel of perversion. Your nightmare should you cross me." ((Want to read about my life in Hawaii and my ongoing war against the roosters and my pony size dog and my wedding?)) http://www.alohafemme.wordpress.com/ Last edited by pinkgeek; 11-09-2012 at 05:23 PM. Reason: clarity

11-09-2012, 05:27 PM	#4
CherylNYC Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme lesbian Preferred Pronoun?: I'm a woman. Behave accordingly. Relationship Status: Single, not looking. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 1,467 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,474 Thanked 7,112 Times in 1,205 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Butches are often shy, and they have good reasons to assume that all women they might find attractive and interesting when they're in straight spaces are straight. We can spot them, but without that rainbow necklace they have no reason to suspect that they might be in the same room with one of us. Honestly, if I were a butch I would never EVER have the moxie to approach a woman for a date outside of designated LGBT space. When I see an interesting looking butch I take a deep breath, then simply smile as openly as I can, extend my hand, and say, "Hi, I'm Cheryl". I catch her eye and smile some more, waiting for her to respond. If I get nothing, I just say, "It's nice to meet you". I then force myself to not immediately run away in terror. A shy butch may be totally overwhelmed by the sudden attention and may need a few extra seconds to order her thoughts before responding. Just remember that a butch in straight space has had a lifetime of feeling like there's water everywhere with nary a drop to drink. When I put myself in the place of a butch in straight space I know that it would take me far more than a few seconds to overcome the habitual hobbling of my flirting muscles in that circumstance. __________________ Cheryl

11-09-2012, 08:41 PM	#8
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,971 Times in 2,591 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Flirting in non-GLBT space is definitely a different ballgame than in glbt space. I don't know if what I do is actually flirtation, but I definitely convey my appreciation in what I hope is a harmless way. I don't think I knew how to flirt with butches when I first came out - but over time it's become second-nature to give that look of acknowledgement/appreciation/knowing that tends to cause a corresponding blush or shy smile or stammer enough times for me to know that the message is conveyed. And occasionally a free coffee. My intention is more of an "I see you" in an appreciative way than anything more aggressive - because I don't want to unintentionally communicate availability. When I was single and found somebody attractive, it usually worked pretty well to be friendly and direct. A casual compliment works well if the person is available and interested. Many people will open up if you ask a few questions that aren't too invasive but require an opinion or history of some sort. I think the secret to successful flirting is not to be too invested in the results. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

11-09-2012, 09:16 PM	#9
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,592 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,906 Times in 4,062 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	I say we femmes need a secret sign to signal butches out there when we arent in a LGBT space...like, putting a thumb on our chin when they look at us...which would mean YES I AM FAMILY! __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

11-09-2012, 05:08 PM	#2
homoe Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: ..... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle Posts: 38,565 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 20,811 Thanked 33,549 Times in 14,914 Posts Rep Power: 21474889	Nothing ventured nothing gained ~

11-09-2012, 06:10 PM	#5
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,832 Times in 13,908 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	as i've said, a 2x4 in your purse works well!

11-09-2012, 06:45 PM	#6
ArkansasPiscesGrrl Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she, her Relationship Status: feeling pretty darned blissful right now! Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: central AR Posts: 856 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,594 Thanked 3,079 Times in 741 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	When I moved up here to Arkansas from FL, it was often really difficult for me to find others that I thought MIGHT be LBGT. Gay-dar was not working for me, and I had been surprised (and subsequently embarrassed) by assuming that the butch looking woman was gay, when in fact she was more of a country-small-town woman. Big difference from the women I had been used to in FL! Combine that with my own femme invisibility and I just about gave up! Then I saw a couple of women at the grocery store, adn do admit to following them with my own shopping cart. (I know, kinda creepy, right?) Trying to get their attention, smiling, then saying something like "I just moved here to AR, and it is SO nice to see other family here!". Or the usual "Do I know you? You both look so familiar to me! Umm, would you happen to be family?" I ended up meeting my fiance in an online service. She and I were both JUST looking for friends. hehehe.

11-09-2012, 09:31 PM	#10
easygoingfemme Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Lil' Miss Sassy Pants Preferred Pronoun?: She/her Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: My place by the river Posts: 3,691 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 7,021 Thanked 14,969 Times in 3,317 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I think my double take and jaw drop paired with a goofy smile lets them know but... If that doesn't work- some solid eye contact with a more pleasant smile and some easy conversation... If that doesn't work than I assume they don't think I'm as hot as I think they are and I can move on.

11-12-2012, 04:05 AM	#12
Venus007 Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Serene Highness ;} Relationship Status: Dreamily contemplating some outrage against conventional morality Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,362 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,417 Thanked 4,749 Times in 1,139 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	nothing ventured. . . I work the fundamentals of flirting Smile Eye contact Arrange for a touch, shaking hands, hand on the arm etc then move in for the chatting and flirting while working the fundamentals. I have found a little bit of ribbing and teasing goes well to establish rapport I get turned down sometimes, I get surprised straight women occasionally but usually I get at least a fun chat and a if I am lucky a phone number or we leave together __________________ . "I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction. " Ayn Rand, Anthem "So you'll die happily for your sins. You'd rather die in guilt then live in love?" Timothy Leary

11-12-2012, 06:04 AM	#13
Ginger Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme lesbian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: East coast Posts: 2,416 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,829 Thanked 12,295 Times in 2,057 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	When I see a butch woman in a public space, I catch her eye and smile. I'm not flirting (but it's okay if she thinks that). It's just a solidarity thing.